How a 100-year-old vaccine for tuberculosis could help fight the novel coronavirus

[Orangesapples 1,954]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/health/tuberculosis-bcg-vaccine-coronavirus/index.htm

 

As researchers scramble to find new drugs and vaccines for Covid-19, a vaccine that is more than a century old has piqued researchers' interests. The Bacillus Calmette-Guerin vaccine -- which was first developed to fight off tuberculosis -- is being studied in clinical trials around the world as a way to fight the novel coronavirus.

 

Tuberculosis and Covid-19 infection are two very different diseases -- TB is caused by a type of bacteria while Covid-19 is caused by a virus, for starters. But the BCG vaccine might help people build immune responses to things other than TB, causing "off-target effects," according to Dr. Denise Faustman, director of immunobiology at Massachusetts General Hospital and associate professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.

"In other words, in clinical trial format, people started picking up positive benefit from getting the vaccine that had nothing to do with tuberculosis," she said. Faustman has studied how the BCG vaccine affects people with Type 1 diabetes for many years. She is interested in how its off-target effects change the immune system in beneficial ways for people with autoimmune diseases such as Type 1 diabetes.

 

 

 

Though the exact mechanism for these off-target effects of the BCG vaccine isn't clear, it's believed that the vaccine can cause a nonspecific boost of the immune response.

 

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

 

   Wasn't CNN one of the media outlets criticizing Trump for promoting hydrochloroquine use? Seems hypocritical to be promoting stories like this now. 

 

   My hope is, before they consider a vaccine that works by non specific hyper activation of the immune system, they better make damn sure they rule out that the  immune system response is not what is causing the lung damage in the first place. 

[Dashinka 24,798]

5 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Wasn't CNN one of the media outlets criticizing Trump for promoting hydrochloroquine use? Seems hypocritical to be promoting stories like this now. 

 

   My hope is, before they consider a vaccine that works by non specific hyper activation of the immune system, they better make damn sure they rule out that the  immune system response is not what is causing the lung damage in the first place. 

If President Trump was to now mention this potential, I am certain CNN will change their tune.

[millefleur 5,047]

My husband has the BCG vaccine because it is standard in Russia, whereas I never had this (I assume I have whatever TB vaccine is standard in the US). So, we are an experiment, let's see if one of us gets the virus and the other doesn't. 

 

Also, if it did crate some kind of immunity, wouldn't countries that require their citizens to get the BCG vaccine be showing lower infection and death rates? 🤔

[Orangesapples 1,954]

6 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Wasn't CNN one of the media outlets criticizing Trump for promoting hydrochloroquine use? Seems hypocritical to be promoting stories like this now. 

 

   My hope is, before they consider a vaccine that works by non specific hyper activation of the immune system, they better make damn sure they rule out that the  immune system response is not what is causing the lung damage in the first place. 

Promoting? I don't think that's promoting anything, it's just informing the public about a possible development. This has nothing to do with Trump. My parents in my home country actually told me about this and they certainly don't watch CNN and they don't care about Trump. 

[Dashinka 24,798]

1 minute ago, millefleur said:

My husband has the BCG vaccine because it is standard in Russia, whereas I never had this (I assume I have whatever TB vaccine is standard in the US). So, we are an experiment, let's see if one of us gets the virus and the other doesn't. 

 

Also, if it did crate some kind of immunity, wouldn't countries that require their citizens to get the BCG vaccine be showing lower infection and death rates? 🤔

That would be an interesting study.  My wife also had this vaccine, and quite honestly, when I get a cold, even if particularly severe, she rarely has any issues.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

1 minute ago, millefleur said:

My husband has the BCG vaccine because it is standard in Russia, whereas I never had this (I assume I have whatever TB vaccine is standard in the US). So, we are an experiment, let's see if one of us gets the virus and the other doesn't. 

 

Also, if it did crate some kind of immunity, wouldn't countries that require their citizens to get the BCG vaccine be showing lower infection and death rates? 🤔

That's what the article said a study showed but it was too annoying to copy and paste all of it, with all the pop ups. 

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.24.20042937v1

 

This is the study, it hasn't been peer reviewed yet. 

[Orangesapples 1,954]

4 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

That would be an interesting study.  My wife also had this vaccine, and quite honestly, when I get a cold, even if particularly severe, she rarely has any issues.

I have this vaccine but colds definitely get me, the flu does as well. 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Orangesapples

[Dashinka 24,798]

1 minute ago, Orangesapples said:

I have this vaccines but colds definitely get me, the flu does as well. 

Yes, hence the need for a study as everything else is anecdotal.

[Ontarkie 14,497]

I had the BCG, and the one who gets sick the most in my house.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

32 minutes ago, millefleur said:

My husband has the BCG vaccine because it is standard in Russia, whereas I never had this (I assume I have whatever TB vaccine is standard in the US). So, we are an experiment, let's see if one of us gets the virus and the other doesn't. 

 

Also, if it did crate some kind of immunity, wouldn't countries that require their citizens to get the BCG vaccine be showing lower infection and death rates? 🤔

 

   The immune hypersensitivity response they are trying to create is usually short term. The antibody that is produced confers specific immunity to Mycobacterium and is long term. Non specific systemic hypersensitivity is generally considered an unwanted side effect of BCG, and the issues it can cause are not trivial. People would probably want to do a lot of research before getting this vaccine just because of Covid-19.  

 

  

[Orangesapples 1,954]

1 minute ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   The immune hypersensitivity response they are trying to create is usually short term. The antibody that is produced confers specific immunity to Mycobacterium and is long term. Non specific systemic hypersensitivity is generally considered an unwanted side effect of BCG, and the issues it can cause are not trivial. People would probably want to do a lot of research before getting this vaccine just because of Covid-19.  

 

  

Since this vaccine is mandatory in many countries, don't we have a lot of data on it already? 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Orangesapples

[Steeleballz 7,550]

Just now, Orangesapples said:

Since this vaccine is mandatory in many countries, don't we have a lot of data on it already? 

 

  We do. That's why we don't use it anymore, unless you live in an area where the risk of TB is high, or in specific clinical situations where it has a benefit that outweighs the risks. I'm not sure Covid-19 is going to be one where the benefit outweighs the risks.

 

 

  

[Orangesapples 1,954]

14 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  We do. That's why we don't use it anymore, unless you live in an area where the risk of TB is high, or in specific clinical situations where it has a benefit that outweighs the risks. I'm not sure Covid-19 is going to be one where the benefit outweighs the risks.

 

 

  

The article claimed it was one the safest vaccines in the world. Interesting. I'm curious what you the side effects are, everyone I grew up with had it snd I never heard anything bad about it but that's not data. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

46 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

The article claimed it was one the safest vaccines in the world. Interesting. I'm curious what you the side effects are, everyone I grew up with had it snd I never heard anything bad about it but that's not data. 

 

    It's not going to kill people, but it generally doesn't work well in adults who have already been exposed to Mycobacteria in the environment. The side effects are what they are, as I said, an overactive immune system has it's own set of risks. The question would be is the risk of getting Covid-19 worth trading against an unknown set of benefits and different set of risks you are exposed to by getting the BCG vaccine.