Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

5 hours ago, yuna628 said:

Whelp, it was going so well but then..

 

He uses a lot of medical terms, some he's incorrect about. He tosses out a lot of things but then says he doesn't know because he's not a physician. I don't know what he is, but... I hope he rethinks some things after discussing it with doctors dealing with this every day.

His opinion was great, until he was honest about his credentials.

 

Lesson learned, next time omit or lie.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

7 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

His opinion was great, until he was honest about his credentials.

 

Lesson learned, next time omit or lie.

 

  He was wrong about how hydroqloroquine works, he was wrong about it being an antibacterial, he was wrong about Malaria being a bacteria, he was wrong about being able to transfuse whole blood as an effctive treatment, and there is no evidence that the virus specifically binds with non heme iron. It really looks like he just read a bunch of articles and tried to correlate it into some kind of process without understanding the specifics.

 

  Non heme iron actually ends up bound to ferritin, the increase of which is already a marker of severity in any inflammatory process. It's what is known as an acute phase reactant. Generally has nothing to do with the organism, it is a function of your own immune system being over agressive. It will be high in any disease process that causes high levels of inflammation, and ferritin levels do not respond specifically to hydrochloroquine, or we would already be using that as a treatment for all those diseases. More than likely, if hydrochloroquine does have an effect in Covid-19, it is by a specific depression of cytokines, one of the by products of which would be less acute inflammatory proteins, thus less cell damage while the immune system fights off the virus. That's not going to be helpful for everyone, but it will be helpful in treating cytokine mediated damage.

 

  He was right about ventilators potentially causing more damage than the virus, so there is that.

 

[NikLR 13,232]

so 1 out of 6? Not great odds. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

VoR and Steeleballz: here's some interesting discussions on the twitterverse of MDs regarding PEEP, ARDS, if we should be using vents and when we should be using them. Pretty technical stuff. Take care to click through and read the threads, very lengthy discussions.

 

 

 

 

 

     Good stuff! Took me a while to get through. I think physicians at hospitals all over the world are having this discussion currently, but it is probably more readily apparent in places where they have had high numbers of people with severe disease. I'm curious if type H is more common with severe disease in younger people, but I haven't been able to find that.

 

[OriZ 3,157]

8 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Yes, and if you read the OP, you'll see that there is at least some likelihood that the ventilators and intubations are actually making recoveries worse rather than better.  So much yet to learn...

To be honest I stopped reading any of it here: 

Quote

Well, a few had some things eerily correct (cough Trump cough), especially with Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromicin, but we’ll get to that in a minute.

Again I think it's extraordinarily ignorant to attribute any of that to Trump.

 

Regarding the actual effect of the virus on your body though, I also saw the video from this doctor a few days ago:

 

 

[TBoneTX 45,963]

9 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

Non heme iron [...] cytokine mediated damage.

English-only outside the regional forums.  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

On 4/9/2020 at 4:34 PM, Steeleballz said:

 

   CPAP is for when you are breathing but not getting enough oxygen. Ventilators are traditionally used when you are not capeable of breathing on your own.

 

  I think the issue is lung damage is already a known problem with ventilators. Usually it's the lesser of two risks, the other risk being fatal hypoxia. It's not an area I'm overly familiar with, but it looks like they need to determine now if the potential damage from the ventilator is more of a risk than the hypoxia itself in Covid-19. It seems like it may be if they start people on ventilators too early. At some point there is no other option than ventilation. Not right now anyway. They are still learning but right now, there may be some people where if it gets to a certain point, they just won't be able to do anything.

CPAP is for when you are sleeping, and STOP breathing.  Hence the acronym CPAP.  But it's also adjustable and non-invasive.  But a person who is still at home, not bad off enough to be at a hospital yet, might find breathing easier with a CPAP of BiPAP, IMO.  

If I catch the virus, I'll report back, as I am a CPAP user.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

23 hours ago, OriZ said:

To be honest I stopped reading any of it here: 

Again I think it's extraordinarily ignorant to attribute any of that to Trump.

 

Regarding the actual effect of the virus on your body though, I also saw the video from this doctor a few days ago:

 

 

Well, you stopped reading too soon.  Oh well....

[Steeleballz 7,550]

7 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

CPAP is for when you are sleeping, and STOP breathing.  Hence the acronym CPAP.  But it's also adjustable and non-invasive.  But a person who is still at home, not bad off enough to be at a hospital yet, might find breathing easier with a CPAP of BiPAP, IMO.  

If I catch the virus, I'll report back, as I am a CPAP user.

 

  Well I know what it's used for, but you asked how it was different. You have to be capable of breathing on your own for CPAP to work. If you can't breath on your own you need a ventilator. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Well I know what it's used for, but you asked how it was different. You have to be capable of breathing on your own for CPAP to work. If you can't breath on your own you need a ventilator. 

Yes.  But prior to getting bad enough for a ventilator, I am wondering aloud if a person who is having difficulty breathing might find it easier with a CPAP?  An expensive proposition, to be sure, but it is the difference between life and death, I'd buy one no problem.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

Yes.  But prior to getting bad enough for a ventilator, I am wondering aloud if a person who is having difficulty breathing might find it easier with a CPAP?  An expensive proposition, to be sure, but it is the difference between life and death, I'd buy one no problem.

I would think not. All it does is create postive over pressure to keep your airway from collapsing.  I would suspect air collapsing is not the issue.

But good question

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Yes.  But prior to getting bad enough for a ventilator, I am wondering aloud if a person who is having difficulty breathing might find it easier with a CPAP?  An expensive proposition, to be sure, but it is the difference between life and death, I'd buy one no problem.

 

    Hard to say if there is a period of time where it would help, but from what I have heard, the timeline for going from bad to worse with ARS can be a matter of hours.  

 

   

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I would think not. All it does is create postive over pressure to keep your airway from collapsing.  I would suspect air collapsing is not the issue.

But good question

According to a close friend, breathing is the issue.  He couldn't walk from the kitchen to the living room without stopping.  Had to pause about every 3-4 stairs going up the the second floor.

 

Positive pressure would SURELY make the effort less taxing?  Just a SWAG from a non-expert who sees boxes and continues to think.