CDC quietly deletes hydroxychloroquine guidance as study hyped by Trump comes into question

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

7 men and 4 women are the whole French trial.  (The link to the PDF is in here): https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0399077X20300858?via%3Dihub 

Meanwhile, another study of 699 patients showed positive results.  https://techstartups.com/2020/03/28/dr-vladimir-zelenko-now-treated-699-coronavirus-patients-100-success-using-hydroxychloroquine-sulfate-zinc-z-pak-update/

Bearing in mind that I never take drugs unless ABSOLUTELY necessary (haven't taken a flu shot since it became optional 5 years ago, and do my best never to put a man-made drug in my body), I ask you...  If you were about to be intubated because you could not breathe, would YOU take HCQ?  I sure as HELL would, no matter what 90DayFInancier, or any other person in the world, found online to demean Trump.  Life, or death.  It's really THAT simple.

 

 

   If you really do want to take it, I don't think you want to wait until you are about to be intubated. 

 

   The 699 patient's are not a study, it's a claim by dr Zelenko with no data provided. The French study, FWIW, 1 out of 11 patients died and 2 others ended up going to ICU, so statistically the results are about the same as if you take a group of 11 random hospitalized Covid-19 patients who did not take HCQ. I still think if it's going to help anyone, it's going to be something you need to take earlier in the course of the infection. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

21 minutes ago, OriZ said:

According to Iceland, where they actually appear to be doing things right in almost all aspects, roughly half

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/10/coronavirus-covid-19-small-nations-iceland-big-data/2959797001/

 

  I think Iceland is just testing people with active infection. At some point, once we start doing antibody testing, I think we will find even more people who had it at some point and don't recall having any significant symptoms. 

[OriZ 3,157]

4 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  I think Iceland is just testing people with active infection. At some point, once we start doing antibody testing, I think we will find even more people who had it at some point and don't recall having any significant symptoms. 

They are actually picking people at random, and have tested 10% of the population so far. It's all in the article - they also haven't closed most places and are doing well because they're taking the other correction actions(testing among them)

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

11 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

 

   If you really do want to take it, I don't think you want to wait until you are about to be intubated. 

 

   The 699 patient's are not a study, it's a claim by dr Zelenko with no data provided. The French study, FWIW, 1 out of 11 patients died and 2 others ended up going to ICU, so statistically the results are about the same as if you take a group of 11 random hospitalized Covid-19 patients who did not take HCQ. I still think if it's going to help anyone, it's going to be something you need to take earlier in the course of the infection. 

So in your professional opinion, if you were lying in a hospital, your stats deteriorating, would you take it or refuse it?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

So in your professional opinion, if you were lying in a hospital, your stats deteriorating, would you take it or refuse it?

 

     I would make the decision to take it or not before I started deteriorating. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

     I would make the decision to take it or not before I started deteriorating. 

Ok.  So WOULD you take it?  

[Steeleballz 7,550]

5 minutes ago, OriZ said:

They are actually picking people at random, and have tested 10% of the population so far. It's all in the article - they also haven't closed most places and are doing well because they're taking the other correction actions(testing among them)

 

  Right, but there can still be people who had it a month ago without symptoms and who would test negative now with the test they are doing. Basically some of the negative results will really be asymptomatic positive people who have already recovered. Once you add in the antibody testing, you are going to detect people who had it in the past but never realized they had it. The actual rate of asymptomatic infections will be at least slightly higher than what they are currently finding.

 

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

7 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Ok.  So WOULD you take it?  

 

   Possibly. I haven't decided yet, but I am not dead set against it now as I was a few days ago. Depends what other treatments are available. I would go for convalescent plasma first if they had it. 

 

   As I said, I do see the mechanism of action now behind why HCQ might be effective (anti-inflammatory), and I do see the scenario where it might help (preventing cytokine mediated damage). If I thought that applied to me, I would take it. 

[OriZ 3,157]

4 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Right, but there can still be people who had it a month ago without symptoms and who would test negative now with the test they are doing. Basically some of the negative results will really be asymptomatic positive people who have already recovered. Once you add in the antibody testing, you are going to detect people who had it in the past but never realized they had it. The actual rate of asymptomatic infections will be at least slightly higher than what they are currently finding.

 

 

Yeah, not disagreeing there. I guess what I'm trying to say is I think it means at the very least half of people are. I've also read estimates as high as 80% which I actually believe more. Because, I think we can pretty confidently ascertain that the real mortality rate is closer to 1%, rather than what it currently is of all confirmed cases(~6%). This means that in reality, there are already 10 million infected worldwide(or were and recovered, anyway). We only know about 1.7 million of them.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Possibly. I haven't decided yet, but I am not dead set against it now as I was a few days ago. Depends what other treatments are available. I would go for convalescent plasma first if they had it. 

 

   As I said, I do see the mechanism of action now behind why HCQ might be effective (anti-inflammatory), and I do see the scenario where it might help (preventing cytokine mediated damage). If I thought that applied to me, I would take it. 

Waffler.  Of COURSE you'd take it.  You'd do ANYTHING to save your skin.  Just admit it.

 

Also, skip the plasma treatment.  Go for a full-on blood transfusion.  O+, preferably.

[TBoneTX 45,962]

1 hour ago, OriZ said:

does this mean all Trump has to do is endorse sanctuary cities and they'll stop?

Some time ago, he offered to ship the caravans of illegals to them, and the mayors shut up in a hurry.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

15 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Waffler.  Of COURSE you'd take it.  You'd do ANYTHING to save your skin.  Just admit it.

 

Also, skip the plasma treatment.  Go for a full-on blood transfusion.  O+, preferably.

 

  Dying of cardiac overload is not preferable to dying of Covid-19. Whole blood is not even an option. Plasma is, but the supply is limited ATM. 

 

  No disrespect, but I have been doing this most of my life. It's not like I haven't seen enough, or had enough time to think about it. My treatment is not going to be based on internet pseudoscience. Since I don't believe HCQ would work at the point where lungs are failing, I see no reason to take it then. If you believe it would help, you have that option.  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

17 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  Dying of cardiac overload is not preferable to dying of Covid-19. Whole blood is not even an option. Plasma is, but the supply is limited ATM. 

 

  No disrespect, but I have been doing this most of my life. It's not like I haven't seen enough, or had enough time to think about it. My treatment is not going to be based on internet pseudoscience. Since I don't believe HCQ would work at the point where lungs are failing, I see no reason to take it then. If you believe it would help, you have that option.  

What are your medical credentials?  MD/DO/PA/LPN?

 

I would do ANYTHING to safe my life if I was in a hospital and dying from covid or any other virus.  As would anyone with a working brain cell, unless they were just tired of living.

Edited April 11, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

What are your medical credentials?  MD/DO/PA/LPN?

 

  What are your medical credentials?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  What are your medical credentials?

I never claimed to have any.  So are you a doctor?  Nurse?  In what aspect of medicine?  Just asking to get a sense of your expertise.  Not saying you are wrong about anything, just curious.  Feel free to PM me if you don't want to comment publicly.    You've made it clear you are in the medical profession just wanting to make sure it's not podiatry or orthopedics if you're offering viral advice.