New York City bans Zoom in schools, citing security concerns

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

This is definitely a security concern not only because of universities across North America using Zoom, but I spent the better part of the last week going back and forth with my daughter's school convincing them to quit mulling over Zoom as we'd not let our daughter use it, and reminded them of their fiduciary duty as an institution to protect our kids' privacy, as hard as it is nowadays.

 

This also resonates with us because we are highly critical of China, my wife is Canadian (speaks fluent Mandarin and Cantonese), but her parents fled China decades ago to Canada, along with many members of her family, and have refused to even visit China as they face potential retaliation by the Chinese government. We regularly communicate with my in-laws who are in other urban regions of Canada, but there are many in-laws we talk to that still live in China, Laos, and that region (some of whom still try to convince my in-laws who fled to come visit), so not being careful with security can easily wind up causing a person to go missing if these chats get in the wrong hands.

 

Quote

 

As schools lie empty, students still have to learn. But officials in New York City say schools are not permitted to use Zoom  for remote teaching, citing security concerns with the video conferencing service.

“Providing a safe and secure remote learning experience for our students is essential, and upon further review of security concerns, schools should move away from using Zoom as soon as possible,” said Danielle Filson, a spokesperson for the New York City Dept. of Education. “There are many new components to remote learning, and we are making real-time decisions in the best interest of our staff and students.”

Instead, the city’s Dept. of Education is transitioning schools to Microsoft Teams, which the spokesperson said has the “same capabilities with appropriate security measures in place.”

 

https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/05/zoom-new-york-city-schools/

 

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ZOOM’S ENCRYPTION IS “NOT SUITED FOR SECRETS” AND HAS SURPRISING LINKS TO CHINA, RESEARCHERS DISCOVER

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MEETINGS ON ZOOM, the increasingly popular video conferencing service, are encrypted using an algorithm with serious, well-known weaknesses, and sometimes using keys issued by servers in China, even when meeting participants are all in North America, according to researchers at the University of Toronto.

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/03/zooms-encryption-is-not-suited-for-secrets-and-has-surprising-links-to-china-researchers-discover/

 

ZOOM MEETINGS AREN’T END-TO-END ENCRYPTED, DESPITE MISLEADING MARKETING

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/31/zoom-meeting-encryption/

 

Maybe we shouldn’t use Zoom after all

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/31/zoom-at-your-own-risk/

 

Beware of ‘ZoomBombing’: screensharing filth to video calls

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/17/zoombombing/

 

Taiwan's government bans official use of Zoom, days after the firm admitted to 'mistakenly' routing some calls through China

https://www.businessinsider.com/taiwan-bans-government-officials-zoom-2020-4

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

Naturally, the point is, avoid Zoom as often as you can. People might be inclined to go, well, what about Google? Their security sucks, they help the NSA and other bureaus spy on you. Indeed, a valid concern, but you also tend to have legal remedies at your disposal to sue Google for harm (tort) they cause you in the US (elsewhere too, but we're talking the US), sue them to find out what information they have+disclose on you, whereas any of these issues involving the Chinese and their government, especially things routed through China, means you're SOL.

 

Clearly not all things are equally bad.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

might be worth checking out whatsapp

 

[sl1pstream 551]

1 hour ago, Ban Hammer said:

might be worth checking out whatsapp

 

WhatsApp is part of Facebook and they're not exactly known for privacy, between the multiple hacks, their business model and past scandals like Cambridge Analytica. 

 

More importantly, WhatsApp doesn't have a desktop or web version that supports video calling.

Edited April 8, 2020 by sl1pstream

[TBoneTX 45,309]

4 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

sue Google for harm (tort)

Tortfeasing!  Probably even heterodox!  Finally!       

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 hours ago, sl1pstream said:

WhatsApp is part of Facebook and they're not exactly known for privacy, between the multiple hacks, their business model and past scandals like Cambridge Analytica. 

 

More importantly, WhatsApp doesn't have a desktop or web version that supports video calling.

True, but it's an amazing app for phones.  I use it far more than SMS nowadays.  Free anywhere there is wifi.  I can make calls in foreign countries for free.  Videos and pics are much higher quality.

[millefleur 5,046]

8 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

True, but it's an amazing app for phones.  I use it far more than SMS nowadays.  Free anywhere there is wifi.  I can make calls in foreign countries for free.  Videos and pics are much higher quality.

Been using Telegram for ages now, it's so much faster than SMS, not sure who uses SMS anymore? Plus you can edit the messages that were sent! 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

22 minutes ago, millefleur said:

Been using Telegram for ages now, it's so much faster than SMS, not sure who uses SMS anymore? Plus you can edit the messages that were sent! 

Faster how?  SMS is instantaneous, as is WhatsApp.  But WhatsApp offers great picture and video quality, voice calls, video calls.

 

I'll look up Telegram.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[millefleur 5,046]

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

Faster how?  SMS is instantaneous, as is WhatsApp.  But WhatsApp offers great picture and video quality, voice calls, video calls.

 

I'll look up Telegram.

I just notice my SMS is extremely laggy, I don't know why. It's especially horrible at sending/receiving any kind of photos. Texts also come in weird from people who have iPhones , sometimes they cut off randomly or appear out of order if it's a long message (I have an Android). I'm using the Verizon text app for reference: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.verizon.messaging.vzmsgs&hl=en_US

 

Telegram is also great for voice calls but it doesn't have a video call option sadly. I still mainly use Skype for that. I've only ever used Zoom at work for remote meetings.

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, millefleur said:

I just notice my SMS is extremely laggy, I don't know why. It's especially horrible at sending/receiving any kind of photos. Texts also come in weird from people who have iPhones , sometimes they cut off randomly or appear out of order if it's a long message (I have an Android). I'm using the Verizon text app for reference: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.verizon.messaging.vzmsgs&hl=en_US

 

Telegram is also great for voice calls but it doesn't have a video call option sadly. I still mainly use Skype for that. I've only ever used Zoom at work for remote meetings.

 

 

Ahhh, I see what you mean.  I have a Samsung, and I know that there are glitches when I get messages from iPhone users; messages and especially pics can arrive hours after they are sent.  A friend and I spar about it all the time.  He swears it's Android, and I swear it's Apple.    I had iPhones back in the day, but don't really see myself ever going back.  My wife wants one again, now that they have good cameras finally.  We have iPads and a MacBook Pro, so the connectivity would certainly be a plus in our home.  I just cannot stand the idea of rolling over to the fan club mentality of the iPhones.

 

My work uses Zoom as well.  I wish they would switch to WhatsApp.  Skype was good back in the day, but I feel it is going the way of ICQ or other apps.  I was "forced" into using WhatsApp a couple of years ago for a class group, and have become very happy with it.  High res pics and videos are a breeze compared to SMS.  The quality is not reduced, and the download time is much faster.

[sl1pstream 551]

5 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

True, but it's an amazing app for phones.  I use it far more than SMS nowadays.  Free anywhere there is wifi.  I can make calls in foreign countries for free.  Videos and pics are much higher quality.

Oh no, I've been using it too. I was just trying to point out that Zoom isn't the only one with privacy problems.

The lack of a desktop video client makes it useless for a school environment though.

 

You'd want something that is available on as many platforms as possible, which is one of the reasons zoom is so popular. WhatsApp also only supports 4 people per call, which makes it instantly useless as a tool for a classroom environment.

 

Skype would work, depending on the size of the class.

[Dashinka 24,512]

15 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

This is definitely a security concern not only because of universities across North America using Zoom, but I spent the better part of the last week going back and forth with my daughter's school convincing them to quit mulling over Zoom as we'd not let our daughter use it, and reminded them of their fiduciary duty as an institution to protect our kids' privacy, as hard as it is nowadays.

 

This also resonates with us because we are highly critical of China, my wife is Canadian (speaks fluent Mandarin and Cantonese), but her parents fled China decades ago to Canada, along with many members of her family, and have refused to even visit China as they face potential retaliation by the Chinese government. We regularly communicate with my in-laws who are in other urban regions of Canada, but there are many in-laws we talk to that still live in China, Laos, and that region (some of whom still try to convince my in-laws who fled to come visit), so not being careful with security can easily wind up causing a person to go missing if these chats get in the wrong hands.

 

https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/05/zoom-new-york-city-schools/

 

https://theintercept.com/2020/04/03/zooms-encryption-is-not-suited-for-secrets-and-has-surprising-links-to-china-researchers-discover/

 

ZOOM MEETINGS AREN’T END-TO-END ENCRYPTED, DESPITE MISLEADING MARKETING

https://theintercept.com/2020/03/31/zoom-meeting-encryption/

 

Maybe we shouldn’t use Zoom after all

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/31/zoom-at-your-own-risk/

 

Beware of ‘ZoomBombing’: screensharing filth to video calls

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/17/zoombombing/

 

Taiwan's government bans official use of Zoom, days after the firm admitted to 'mistakenly' routing some calls through China

https://www.businessinsider.com/taiwan-bans-government-officials-zoom-2020-4

Sounds a lot like WeChat.  I have coworkers in China so I do have WeChat on my work phone, but would never consider putting it on any personal device.  We tend to use Viber and WhatsApp when talking to family back in Russia.  For work we use Skype for Business and MS Teams at work.  Not a really big fan of either, I tend to like WebEx, but they are mostly functional.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

3 hours ago, Dashinka said:

Sounds a lot like WeChat.  I have coworkers in China so I do have WeChat on my work phone, but would never consider putting it on any personal device.  We tend to use Viber and WhatsApp when talking to family back in Russia.  For work we use Skype for Business and MS Teams at work.  Not a really big fan of either, I tend to like WebEx, but they are mostly functional.

Also I think, with a lack of trust and that everyone seems to have their own servers, those who are really security oriented and don't trust companies on the end to end might start looking at Synology Chat and similar successors like Nextcloud. I've never been big on any of the apps mentioned in this thread.. Whatsapp, Skype, etc. And the one and only reason we use Duo is because our Lenovo home devices come with it (and we have no alternative). Google tends to be pretty awful on features for things, just only decent at integrating everything into their core competency of big data.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[yuna628 9,676]

Been warning the husband about zoom for ages now, but the college is going full steam ahead with it. It's clear that even high level government meetings in the UK are also being held on zoom.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

5 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Been warning the husband about zoom for ages now, but the college is going full steam ahead with it. It's clear that even high level government meetings in the UK are also being held on zoom.

With universities (in North America and likely elsewhere) going full steam ahead, we can expect more Zoom security-related news over the coming months.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds