The mayor of coronavirus-plagued New Orleans took a shot at Trump, saying the city would have canceled Mardi Gras if the federal government had taken the outbreak seriously

[TBoneTX 45,299]

Gracias for the validation, si ma'am.

[Nitas_man 3,100]

10 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

   You claimed they said masks “make it worse”. Nothing you have posted here supports that claim. You were incorrect.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html
 

March 2:  “Please stop buying masks.  You can increase your risk of getting COV by wearing a mask if you are not a healthcare provider”

 

Do you remember that little nugget?  It was the US Surgeon General

 

Are you really sure you want to keep this up or can this move on?

 

 

 

 

[Dashinka 24,505]

6 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

I seem to recall hearing somewhere that, whereas wearing masks doesn't hurt, doing so doesn't protect you from catching the virus as much as it protects other people from catching it from you.

So if everyone wore masks, those that have asymptomatic cases will not spread it to others.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

It was my understanding if you wear  a mask it may prevent spread to others. I have some N95 masks, which if I read correctly if used properly can prevent a person from catching.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 hours ago, Nitas_man said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html
 

March 2:  “Please stop buying masks.  You can increase your risk of getting COV by wearing a mask if you are not a healthcare provider”

 

Do you remember that little nugget?  It was the US Surgeon General

 

Are you really sure you want to keep this up or can this move on?

 

 

   I don't want to keep it up because it is boring. I don't need to debate mask use. I use them everyday at work to minimize infection. I also have seen people get sick while wearing them. I know when and why they are effective.

 

  Why you seem to think the surgeon general is an infectious disease expert is something I can't answer. Experts have not said masks make the spread worse.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

14 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

It was my understanding if you wear  a mask it may prevent spread to others. I have some N95 masks, which if I read correctly if used properly can prevent a person from catching.

 

  They do help. That is why we wear them when treating suspected patients. The debate would be how much they actually help the average person in a situation where the risk of exposure is low. 

 

  For someone who is sick, you know you have it and you are mitigating a known risk. Your risk of spreading it is 100% and if you can reduce that to 50%, that is an important measure. For someone who is healthy, you don't actually know where you are exposed they are not as effective. And they are not fool proof. We use them when working with a know risk patient for the same reason. Cutting a high risk of exposure in half is a big deal. Even then, we are sized and fit tested at least annually and we have to go over how to wear them correctly.

 

  They are less effective when wearing them randomly outdoors. The risk of exposure is lower, and the risk of not using them correctly is higher. Misusing them is where they can make the spread worse.  If they were still cheap and easily available I might wear them out shopping. Cutting a risk of exposure from 10% down to 5% is still something You really have to do all the other things - gloves, sanitizer, wash everything when you get home. Unfortunately getting masks was not really an option with this.

 

 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 hours ago, Dashinka said:

So if everyone wore masks, those that have asymptomatic cases will not spread it to others.

 

   They will still spread it, but not spread it as as much hopefully. If it is spread just by breathing, then masks would be more helpful than previously thought when in close proximity to others. Remember that the virus can still enter through your eyes. Even reducing spread by a small amount would be helpful in what they are trying to accomplish. Even something like a 25% decrease would mean we are out of stay at home measures that much faster.

[yuna628 9,676]

58 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

It was my understanding if you wear  a mask it may prevent spread to others. I have some N95 masks, which if I read correctly if used properly can prevent a person from catching.

Hang on to those, because they are like gold now.

 

The other issue of course which any potential changes to guidance on mask wearing is how is the person going to obtain a mask. There's neither N95s or basic surgical masks to be found these days, let alone gloves. The only thing we can do is make them, and there's plenty of tutorials for that... but unfortunately there's a lot of bad tutorials that are just making basic masks that are ill fitting to the face and have no consideration to filtering materials. Some have figured out very good ways to make a form fitting mask that can perform similarly to an N95 - this is what I also aim to do. The new problem is that the materials are gone. Some hospitals have specifically put in requests for many good organizations to make these masks. And stuff you need from the different types of fabric, to elastic, to shoelaces and hair ties, to thread, to the 'secret ingredient' for filtration methods (and any product that is made out of that product), to even vacuum bags, tea towels, and thick bandannas (even 100% cotton shirts and underwear) are gone. I have multiple orders for product that likely will not get here until May-June.

[Dashinka 24,505]

11 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   They will still spread it, but not spread it as as much hopefully. If it is spread just by breathing, then masks would be more helpful than previously thought when in close proximity to others. Remember that the virus can still enter through your eyes. Even reducing spread by a small amount would be helpful in what they are trying to accomplish. Even something like a 25% decrease would mean we are out of stay at home measures that much faster.

I completely agree, and apparently the people of South Korea also agree, which makes me wonder why so many experts were saying not to wear them.  Sure, there are those that will get some false sense of security, but in the end, if everyone wore them the numbers of people inundating hospitals would most likely be lower.  I know my wife and I wear them when at the grocery store.

[Dashinka 24,505]

3 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Hang on to those, because they are like gold now.

 

The other issue of course which any potential changes to guidance on mask wearing is how is the person going to obtain a mask. There's neither N95s or basic surgical masks to be found these days, let alone gloves. The only thing we can do is make them, and there's plenty of tutorials for that... but unfortunately there's a lot of bad tutorials that are just making basic masks that are ill fitting to the face and have no consideration to filtering materials. Some have figured out very good ways to make a form fitting mask that can perform similarly to an N95 - this is what I also aim to do. The new problem is that the materials are gone. Some hospitals have specifically put in requests for many good organizations to make these masks. And stuff you need from the different types of fabric, to elastic, to shoelaces and hair ties, to thread, to the 'secret ingredient' for filtration methods (and any product that is made out of that product), to even vacuum bags, tea towels, and thick bandannas (even 100% cotton shirts and underwear) are gone. I have multiple orders for product that likely will not get here until May-June.

New England Patriots plane brings 1.2M N95 masks from China to Massachusetts

https://www.wfmz.com/news/cnn/editors-choice/new-england-patriots-plane-brings-1-2m-n95-masks-from-china-to-massachusetts/video_af6809e3-88e8-5c41-a3e7-24e2e7996990.html

 

[yuna628 9,676]

Those masks are going to doctors and hospitals though that desperately need them. Not to the general public.

 

At this stage the practice my sister is at has no more masks and could not get any more from suppliers.

[Boiler 45,519]

Why are they deemed single use?

[yuna628 9,676]

10 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Why are they deemed single use?

Well.. CDC states they must be discarded after coming in contact with blood, secretions etc. You wouldn't want to be moving from one patient infected to another patient not infected. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguidanceextuse.html Preferably would be a face shield over the mask, but they've run out of those too. Needing to disinfect them some way may be more difficult, there's a few methods thought of, that may or may not work. I've heard theories that certain methods can cause a breakdown to materials such as application of chemicals and heat exposure. Typically it's considered that there is no way to clean them effectively without compromise. Have heard suggestions about UV bulbs, but do we have enough studies to know if such pathogen can be killed? This fire dept uses a UVC, but even that suggests killing a different virus. https://krdo.com/news/2020/03/31/colorado-fire-department-says-its-developed-a-way-to-sterilize-reuse-n95-masks-amid-shortage/ I still do not think that even in this situation you would try and disinfect a mask that had blood or secretions on it.

 

These ladies developed a very good mask using difficult materials https://ufhealth.org/news/2020/uf-health-anesthesiology-team-devises-respirator-mask-made-existing-hospital-materials The polypropylene was the key, and that material is nearly gone to the public unless you get creative.

Edited April 2, 2020 by yuna628

[Boiler 45,519]

How often do they come in contact?

[Dashinka 24,505]

11 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Well.. CDC states they must be discarded after coming in contact with blood, secretions etc. You wouldn't want to be moving from one patient infected to another patient not infected. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/topics/hcwcontrols/recommendedguidanceextuse.html Preferably would be a face shield over the mask, but they've run out of those too. Needing to disinfect them some way may be more difficult, there's a few methods thought of, that may or may not work. I've heard theories that certain methods can cause a breakdown to materials such as application of chemicals and heat exposure. Typically it's considered that there is no way to clean them effectively without compromise. Have heard suggestions about UV bulbs, but do we have enough studies to know if such pathogen can be killed? This fire dept uses a UVC, but even that suggests killing a different virus. https://krdo.com/news/2020/03/31/colorado-fire-department-says-its-developed-a-way-to-sterilize-reuse-n95-masks-amid-shortage/ I still do not think that even in this situation you would try and disinfect a mask that had blood or secretions on it.

 

These ladies developed a very good mask using difficult materials https://ufhealth.org/news/2020/uf-health-anesthesiology-team-devises-respirator-mask-made-existing-hospital-materials The polypropylene was the key, and that material is nearly gone to the public unless you get creative.

I would think face masks, shields, and goggles could be wiped with a disinfected wipe.  As to masks, could they be put in an autoclave?  I am not sure what plastics are used in them.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Dashinka