Italy Totally Fine Thanks To Universal Healthcare

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

16 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Trump doesn't have an ideology, he's just a narcissist only concerned with his own approval ratings and his reelection. The right just follows him, even when he does things that contradict their ideology because he's their dear leader. 

It's a shame all those moderates and independents that won the election for Trump didn't get the otherworldly narrative I'm reading. 

 

Not only does Trump's message resonate broadly with Americans, but the left, their media, the Democrats, are increasingly alienating the kind of people they need to win elections.

 

Through losing, the left will learn to pull back from the sort of divisive tantrum throwing, however hard that lesson needs to be. For now, I guess, best of luck concocting ways to make DC over 100 states to completely remake the Constitution, Supreme Court, etc. People out of ideas that appeal to others tend to descend to these sort of tactics.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

47 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    It's because most of us have better things to do than debate logical fallicies such as false equivilancy. Regardless of the outcome, the argument is pointless before it even begins.

 

    If you are looking for takers, you might want to try the comments section over at Yahoo.

Your opinion is just as important as mine.  Let's see which of is was more right in a few weeks, shall we?  I'm not mocking you.  Perhaps you could try it.

 

All your big-worded attempts to change my mind won't.   The virus is nothing.  The MSM induced panic is.  And it will be affecting us for years.  

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

Your opinion is just as important as mine.  Let's see which of is was more right in a few weeks, shall we?  I'm not mocking you.  Perhaps you could try it.

 

All your big-worded attempts to change my mind won't.   The virus is nothing.  The MSM induced panic is.  And it will be affecting us for years.  

 

    I'm not mocking you either, and I'm not trying to change your mind. You asked why no one was discussing that particular topic and I'm telling you why.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

I'm kind of sorry you feel the way you do. Honestly? I agree with you on things sometimes, but this is something I don't. Not your conspiracy stuff and not the throw the sick and grandma in front of the train stuff because the economy is god. The train can stop. The train can be rebuilt.

 

Well sorry, and you know I hate to cause offense, especially when I'm rather irritable right now, but I'm at high risk and so are many many beloved persons in my family and friends circle. You would do anything to be smart and protect your family at the expense of all else. I'm the same way. People are dying, it's not funny. The economy? It's bad, it had signs of being bad before this happened, it will get better, life will get better, and it will grow again. Because that's how this economy works and always has. We were due for this and it predictably happened and was made worse because of our own stupidity. This is what happens when the love of money is valued greater than life - a complete societal collapse of morality. We don't take action. We don't plan things out for the event of the bad and the what ifs. And when the bad happens we collapse. We'll evolve and grow and be psychologically damaged before it will happen all over again. You will be fine I'm sure. Others will not. The poor, the sick, the 'pre-existing conditions', the elderly, the seemingly perfectly fine.. all will keep dying. How many bodies are you comfortable with before it's too much for you? Everyone has their own tolerance level I suppose. Guess mine is a little lower. 

The conspiracy stuff is mostly funnin'.  Kind of like flat earth.  I have heard the US dumped it on China, and that they did it to get to us. (Notice how few of them are dying now?  Wonder where they found the cure, and why they aren't sharing it with the rest of the world yet?)

 

But as for all the hype over the virus itself, no, I am not going to fall into panic mode because I see what is really going on. behind the scenes.  Have been talking about it since this whole mess started. And I might be wrong... if I am proven wrong, y'all can all laugh at me.  But that's gonna take some time.

 

Meanwhile, people die.  Every single day.  HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS more than will ever die from covid, even if we all went back to normal tomorrow. Even Cuomo is admitting he made a mistake shutting down NY.   And we have NEVER tried to lock down our country.  Our market has never tanked like this in history.  Why is it happening NOW?  Forget the virus for a moment, and analyze that idea.

 

It's not that I don't care about grandma.  Hell, I'm at risk.  And my dad is HIGH risk.  That's just life.  No need to ruin our entire country because of that is all I am saying.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    I'm not mocking you either, and I'm not trying to change your mind. You asked why no one was discussing that particular topic and I'm telling you why.

Ok.  You're wrong, but ok.  People ARE talking about.  Maybe a handful of people on here aren't willing to drop their blinders and see what is happening, but in many other places, they are.  Eventually, it will become clear to all, after the panic has passed, as it soon will.  We will all be ok, and a few months from now, this will be a grim memory.

[Lemonslice 4,841]

2 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

The conspiracy stuff is mostly funnin'.  Kind of like flat earth.  I have heard the US dumped it on China, and that they did it to get to us. (Notice how few of them are dying now?  Wonder where they found the cure, and why they aren't sharing it with the rest of the world yet?)

 

But as for all the hype over the virus itself, no, I am not going to fall into panic mode because I see what is really going on. behind the scenes.  Have been talking about it since this whole mess started. And I might be wrong... if I am proven wrong, y'all can all laugh at me.  But that's gonna take some time.

 

Meanwhile, people die.  Every single day.  HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS more than will ever die from covid, even if we all went back to normal tomorrow. Even Cuomo is admitting he made a mistake shutting down NY.   And we have NEVER tried to lock down our country.  Our market has never tanked like this in history.  Why is it happening NOW?  Forget the virus for a moment, and analyze that idea.

 

It's not that I don't care about grandma.  Hell, I'm at risk.  And my dad is HIGH risk.  That's just life.  No need to ruin our entire country because of that is all I am saying.

Which is ok, the economy is more important to you.  I still don't see how it is ruining the country though.  I see families spending time together.  I see people realizing that their crazy commutes are killing them and that won't accept to go back to the office full time.  I see my neighbours gardening.  I see my husband taking afternoon naps.  I see solidarity and thoughtful actions.  I know you think you "see what is really going on", but I see something else.  I am happy to keep my Marxist glasses on.  

[Steeleballz 7,550]

6 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Ok.  You're wrong, but ok.  People ARE talking about.  Maybe a handful of people on here aren't willing to drop their blinders and see what is happening, but in many other places, they are.  Eventually, it will become clear to all, after the panic has passed, as it soon will.  We will all be ok, and a few months from now, this will be a grim memory.

 

    That's why I suggested Yahoo comments. I notice a lot of hyperbolic and/or fallacious arguments every time I click on one of thos articles. Car accident fatility rates are a significant discussion worth having. The attempts to compare them to Covid-19 death rates is nonsense, and most people see it as such. As you have been fond of saying on a few occassions, apples and oranges.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

What I really love about family bonding time during Wuhan virus hysteria is all the panicked hoarding of toilet paper, canned food, meat, soap/cleaning supplies, and so on. Really facilitates the "community" mentality. ✊

[yuna628 9,676]

30 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

The conspiracy stuff is mostly funnin'.  Kind of like flat earth.  I have heard the US dumped it on China, and that they did it to get to us. (Notice how few of them are dying now?  Wonder where they found the cure, and why they aren't sharing it with the rest of the world yet?)

 

But as for all the hype over the virus itself, no, I am not going to fall into panic mode because I see what is really going on. behind the scenes.  Have been talking about it since this whole mess started. And I might be wrong... if I am proven wrong, y'all can all laugh at me.  But that's gonna take some time.

 

Meanwhile, people die.  Every single day.  HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS more than will ever die from covid, even if we all went back to normal tomorrow. Even Cuomo is admitting he made a mistake shutting down NY.   And we have NEVER tried to lock down our country.  Our market has never tanked like this in history.  Why is it happening NOW?  Forget the virus for a moment, and analyze that idea.

 

It's not that I don't care about grandma.  Hell, I'm at risk.  And my dad is HIGH risk.  That's just life.  No need to ruin our entire country because of that is all I am saying.

It's nothing to really be funnin' about though. The market tanks, it's the natural cycle of how our economy structure works. So? You think it's supposed to be bulls forever? The higher you go the harder you fall. The signs were there before this happened. Pandemics have consequences, huge ones on every single level. It's why it's a good idea to be prepared and to fix the critical infrastructure before it's too late. I don't see it being ruined. There's a lot of other more fundamentally moral issues ruining our country than economic factors imo. Our ancestors survived far far worse even both economically and pandemic wise.  They must have thought it was the end of the world then too. Your 401k will recover. What good is the money if no one is alive to be spending it? It's going to be a long and difficult road, but have you ever stopped to think that your 'ruining the country' is panicked hype from your point of view? I have seen this past week, a tremendous amount of callous and downright stupid takes all over the internet about end of the world economics and a near-utilitarianist/marxist ideal that we must all suffer and die for the greater good of the economic health of the motherland. They are doing the same thing they claim to accuse others of and hate. It's disturbing... and I'm weary.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Lemonslice said:

Which is ok, the economy is more important to you.  I still don't see how it is ruining the country though.  I see families spending time together.  I see people realizing that their crazy commutes are killing them and that won't accept to go back to the office full time.  I see my neighbours gardening.  I see my husband taking afternoon naps.  I see solidarity and thoughtful actions.  I know you think you "see what is really going on", but I see something else.  I am happy to keep my Marxist glasses on.  

You are right about the community part.  I know more neighbors now, and have talked to more of the ones I already knew in the past 3 weeks than I did in the 11 previous months.

 

And while that is a great thing, the economic damage has a purpose.  And yes, we will overcome it, but it won't happen quickly I am afraid.   I never used the word Marxist, that is your word.  

 

The economy should be important to all of us.  It is what makes itnpossible for us to enjoy our life outside of work.  And while some are focused on the deaths caused by the virus, which are indeed tragic, there is another tragedy unfolding that will take more time to unfold.  Local businesses closing their doors for good. People who were employed last month who are NOT employed today.  I know it's purely anecdotal, but I know more unemployed folks in the past two months than people who died from the virus.  And I fear there will be many more.  I hope I am wrong. I'd LOVE to be wrong about it, in fact.

 

10 years from now, this will be a memory.  Just like 9/11.  At least this was caused by the media, not terrorists.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

9 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

You are right about the community part.  I know more neighbors now, and have talked to more of the ones I already knew in the past 3 weeks than I did in the 11 previous months.

 

Hopefully you talked to them on the phone... 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

It's nothing to really be funnin' about though. The market tanks, it's the natural cycle of how our economy structure works. So? You think it's supposed to be bulls forever? The higher you go the harder you fall. The signs were there before this happened. Pandemics have consequences, huge ones on every single level. It's why it's a good idea to be prepared and to fix the critical infrastructure before it's too late. I don't see it being ruined. There's a lot of other more fundamentally moral issues ruining our country than economic factors imo. Our ancestors survived far far worse even both economically and pandemic wise.  They must have thought it was the end of the world then too. Your 401k will recover. What good is the money if no one is alive to be spending it? It's going to be a long and difficult road, but have you ever stopped to think that your 'ruining the country' is panicked hype from your point of view? I have seen this past week, a tremendous amount of callous and downright stupid takes all over the internet about end of the world economics and a near-utilitarianist/marxist ideal that we must all suffer and die for the greater good of the economic health of the motherland. They are doing the same thing they claim to accuse others of and hate. It's disturbing... and I'm weary.

No.  Just no.  Well, yes, experts, and our very own VJ members, have been predicting a recession for many years now.  And yes, it cycles.  And yes, it has little to do with whomever is in the WH.  But this pandemic has been used by the media to cause a fake panic and runa on the markets.

 

My 401K is only 2 years old, and inconsequential in the big scheme of things.  I don't ever need to work again, if I so chose.  I am NOT worried about me at all believe it or  not.  I AM worried about family, friends, and people whom I have never met who will be set back months/years by a fake scare.  There was NO REASON for this particular crash.  The only silver lining is that it may come back faster than normal due to the artificial nature of the drop.  Fingers crossed for that.

 

Not enough people will die to justify the market decline vs. the response.  Perhaps that isn't clear today, but mark my words, we will look back and wonder WHY this happened. 

 

Much love to you and your family.  Sending healthy thoughts your way ( I don't pray, so...).  Stay safe. Stay healthy. In six months, we may all laugh at how we all made silly comments in here.  Hopefully.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Hopefully you talked to them on the phone... 

That would be rude.  No, we talk as we walk around the neighborhood,  visiting one another.   With some distance between us, of course.  No hugging not kissing, as they do in Italy.

 

Also went to work today.  Some things can't stop.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

What I really love about family bonding time during Wuhan virus hysteria is all the panicked hoarding of toilet paper, canned food, meat, soap/cleaning supplies, and so on. Really facilitates the "community" mentality. ✊

My goal is to never buy TP again until we are down to our last few squares.  I plan to report that event here on VJ.  

[Orangesapples 1,954]

Just now, Voice of Reason said:

That would be rude.  No, we talk as we walk around the neighborhood,  visiting one another.   With some distance between us, of course.  No hugging not kissing, as they do in Italy.

 

Also went to work today.  Some things can't stop.

You really shouldn't be visiting people now. Hugging and kissing is worse but you should stay at home as much as possible.