Will Green Card holders get the $1000 federal relief package?

[Loren Y 2,756]

7 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

I think the proposed bill (which went down in flames) had a minimum for everyone.  But I'm not sure how they determine who "everyone" is.  Quite a logistics problem.....might provide a good argument for a national ID card,

I agree 100% on a national ID card. Has been needed for a long time now.

[Crazy Cat 41,984]

1 minute ago, Loren Y said:

I agree 100% on a national ID card. Has been needed for a long time now.

My opinion has evolved over the years.  I see no problem with a national id card....it seems to work well in some countries.  

[Boiler 45,733]

23 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

My opinion has evolved over the years.  I see no problem with a national id card....it seems to work well in some countries.  

Dems do consider this racist.

 

[geowrian 22,337]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

Dems do consider this racist.

I know Democrats who support and oppose it. I know Republicans who support and oppose it. Often each for very different reasons.

Personally I like it. We have a de-facto national ID in terms of our SSN already...it's just horribly awful at being one because it was never intended to be one. It lacks actually identifying information.

 

Note this is different than Voter ID laws. That topic is a bigger mess, which is where I think the complaint of racial bias comes into play.

[vincentlina 74]

3 hours ago, Lucky Cat said:

Agree.  While the country is under an emergency, some politicians want to play their usual games.........I, for one, will remember who these people are.

I hope you also remembers the politicians who are  trying to screw over the working people at the behest of the corporate pillagers?

 

You've "selectively" choose the parts that are not so savory in terms of the immediacy of the relief package to the average American but taken in it's totality, what the Democrats are proposing is significantly more "people" focus and people friendly than what the Republicans are proposing (which, essentially amounts to a massive slush fund for these same thieves to manage themselves).

 

For example, under the Democrats plan, they "want to further plump the direct payments that would go out to Americans under the bill, proposing $1,500 per person, instead of the $1,200" -- so if you can hold off for just a few days more, you'd actually get more money per individual than what McConnell has proposed (source: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/23/house-democrats-stimulus-senate-coronavirus-145388). Please read it in its entirety.

 

Their plan is simply more worker and small business inclusive (yes, there is provisions for better fuel efficiency from airlines, a portion I personally wouldn't have included) but you simply cannot deny that their plan is simply "overall" a much better one from a consumer and average Joe perspective. In the end, isn't this what it should be about?

[Crazy Cat 41,984]

10 minutes ago, vincentlina said:

but you simply cannot deny that their plan is simply "overall" a much better one from a consumer and average Joe perspective.

Oh, I certainly deny it........putting climate change criteria, workplace requirements, and other irrelevant garbage into the Corona relief plan is a disgrace.....

 

This is an emergency....not a game for them to play around with.

 

Like it or not, big business employs millions and millions of people (directly and indirectly).....Slush fund?  Really?  That is a direct Dem talking point.....

Edited March 24, 2020 by Lucky Cat

[vincentlina 74]

2 hours ago, Loren Y said:

I agree 100% on a national ID card. Has been needed for a long time now.

The new Dems plans basically broadens the scope of Americans who'd receive assistance by defining any and all Americans who have a Tax ID. Which makes a lot more common sense to me because it will capture a lot more people, once you are a "tax paying" American. And in the end, isn't that what you want, "only" people who have been "paying" their fair share of the tax burden. Honestly though, from my personal opinion, I wouldn't have included rich people, or people making $75K or more into this net. The money shouldn't be wasted...it should be targeted for only those who are truly unemployed. As they also have plans for furloughed employees via assistance, loans and grants to their employers (who'd continue to paying them).

[vincentlina 74]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Cat said:

Oh, I certainly deny it........putting climate change criteria, workplace requirements, and other irrelevant garbage into the Corona relief plan is a disgrace.....

 

This is an emergency....not a game for them to play around with.

 

Like it or not, big business employs millions and millions of people (directly and indirectly).....Slush fund?  Really?  

Emergency doesn't mean "stupid" spending. McConnell is also playing games by bringing his plan to a vote when he knows he does "not" have the votes in hopes of pressuring the other sides. Both sides are playing games my friend...not one side -- it's "both". Open your mind and be honest with yourself.

 

"Like it or not, big business employs millions and millions of people (directly and indirectly).....Slush fund?  Really? "  -- remember 2008 when these same "big businesses" got "our" bail out money and then went on shopping spree with stocks buy-backs and big CEO compensations?

 

Why do you think the airlines are now begging the government for money? They made billions and instead of investing those funds back into the companies and employees (or infrastructure), they spend most of the gains on stock buy backs. Know what happens when companies (and their investors) wealth are all tied to the stock market -- instead of having cash reserves like Apple? When the market tanks (like now), they go under. They don't have the cash reserves to continue business operations. This is what the Dems proposals is trying to address (from happening "again)". And for that...I'm happy for once someone is trying to do something for the little guy.

 

In the end, the Dems proposal is business friendly too...the difference between it and Repubs' plan...they want "accountability". Who doesn't that other than thieves!

 

[Crazy Cat 41,984]

Let us hope that they quickly get help to those who truly need help.

[cd37 229]

17 minutes ago, vincentlina said:

 

Why do you think the airlines are now begging the government for money? They made billions and instead of investing those funds back into the companies and employees (or infrastructure), they spend most of the gains on stock buy backs. Know what happens when companies (and their investors) wealth are all tied to the stock market -- instead of having cash reserves like Apple? When the market tanks (like now), they go under. They don't have the cash reserves to continue business operations.

 

Are you kidding ? You r comparing apple to all the airlines ? Do you realize that how much an airbus or boeing plane costs ? Everyone runs business to make profits and when airlines make profit, they buy new planes which provides more employment. Airlines business is way more complicated than apple. So if you dont have knowledge how it works then dont comment. 

[geowrian 22,337]

Since the merits of the proposal came up, I might as well chime in just a bit...

 

It's really a mixed bag no matter how you approach it. A lot of it comes down to the propensity to consume vs propensity to save.

 

If you are struggling just to make a living, have been laid off, etc., you're likely going to take that check and use it right away. However, that use of it will likely be to pay off debts and basic living expenses - rent/mortage, loans, etc. The vast majority of this goes to the very big companies: mortage companies, credit card companies, banks, etc. So any direct stimulus there is really a stimulus to those institutions.  Now do those businesses have a compelling reason to spend the money right now? Not really IMO. They're more likely to save it away. They aren't going to hire people, buy new stuff, etc. with it. So it has minimal impact to restart the economy.

* Personal and small landlords are an exception to the "larger company" references above. But then again, it just means they have fewer losses due to unpaid and late payments. They aren't getting any sort of windfall either. They aren't likely to meaningfully increase spending as a result.

 

If you are doing alright but are nervous about your job stability, IMO you're probably going to save it more than spend it. You're worried that you may need it on essentials in the future. This doesn't meaningfully contribute to restarting the economy.

 

If you are doing fairly well and have a stable job, this is where you are more likely to spend it in meaningful ways that contribute to restarting the economy. But I would also argue this is probably not the largest group of people right now.

 

If you are doing very well off, this is insignificant. It's also likely the smallest group of people. And it appears that this group may not to even get anything due to income limits (depending on how exactly these are calculated and how one's tax returns look - some people in this group have a lower AGI still).

 

People are hurting. They do need relief. The economy is being hit hard, too. That needs relief.

The issue, IMO, is that this doesn't really do much to actually stimulate the economy to relieve the underlying conditions people are facing. These types of relief are better suited once the economy starts recovering, as groups 1 and 2 are much more likely to spend in ways that perpetuate more spending, hiring, etc.

As for right now, personally I'd like to see more investment in ways to restart the economy, not just ways to just keep businesses open. The latter follows the former. Buy things we need. Promote services that we need. An immediate idea are construction projects, mainly roadways, bridges, etc.

Edit: Normally I'd say public transit too...but not in this particualar case.

 

Just my $0.02

 

6 minutes ago, cd37 said:

So if you dont have knowledge how it works then dont comment. 

Reminder that is is against the TOS to discourage people from using or enjoying the forums.

Edited March 24, 2020 by geowrian

[Loren Y 2,756]

Anyone remember hurricane Katrina... Not to quote a Die hard movie, but I checked, it did take FEMA 5 days to get water to the Superdome, and this is the same government were relying on to help us now.

[vincentlina 74]

12 minutes ago, cd37 said:

Are you kidding ? You r comparing apple to all the airlines ? Do you realize that how much an airbus or boeing plane costs ? Everyone runs business to make profits and when airlines make profit, they buy new planes which provides more employment. Airlines business is way more complicated than apple. So if you dont have knowledge how it works then dont comment. 

My friend, I wasn't comparing Apple's business operations to airlines business operations --- they are completely different business models. I was comparing how Apple has "cash" reserves and the airlines practically has none.

 

Apparently, you're the one who doesn't have knowledge how the airlines have been operating. The airlines have been pumping their fat profits back into stock-buy backs and Executive compensations for years. Do you know why...of course you don't. They have been doing this as a means to boost Executive and shareholder values/compensation. When they give Executives stocks, they then pump profits into buying back stocks...they do this to boost their stock market value/performance...in turn these stocks that Executives and shareholders own..increase in value...netting the fat cats billions of dollars in profits/stock value. Most of the profits is "not" put into buying new planes.

 

Much goes on under the surface that mere mortals simply do not see (or know).

 

I would have shared resources for you to learn what the airline industry has been doing and how they find themselves in this sordid state of affairs, but I doubt you would voluntarily educate yourself on such matters. You can lead a donkey to the well; but you can't make it drink.

[cd37 229]

4 minutes ago, vincentlina said:

My friend, I wasn't comparing Apple's business operations to airlines business operations --- they are completely different business models. I was comparing how Apple has "cash" reserves and the airlines practically has none.

 

Apparently, you're the one who doesn't have knowledge how the airlines have been operating. The airlines have been pumping their fat profits back into stock-buy backs and Executive compensations for years. Do you know why...of course you don't. They have been doing this as a means to boost Executive and shareholder values/compensation. When they give Executives stocks, they then pump profits into buying back stocks...they do this to boost their stock market value/performance...in turn these stocks that Executives and shareholders own..increase in value...netting the fat cats billions of dollars in profits/stock value. Most of the profits is "not" put into buying new planes.

 

Much goes on under the surface that mere mortals simply do not see (or know).

 

I would have shared resources for you to learn what the airline industry has been doing and how they find themselves in this sordid state of affairs, but I doubt you would voluntarily educate yourself on such matters. You can lead a donkey to the well; but you can't make it drink.

My friend I never disagreed about companies buying back stocks with profit but I directly work with airplane manufacturer and airlines thats why I am telling you that the business is not easy to maintain. Airlines do have cash reserves. All majoe US airlines has 100s of aircraft which now needs storage. It costs money, nobody owns space to store that many aircraft. Addtionally they have to maintain aircraft to meet regulatory storage requirements and still need to do required maintenance during storage time. Now this costs millions and millions. So forget about few months, they will run out of money in matter of weeks. Also they have lot of planes on order, they have to pay for that too and store them. Let me not get onto paying airport fees including takeoff and landing slots. You have been already educated now.

 

So if you keep crying and repeating same thing on this forum over and over doesnt make you correct. 

[vincentlina 74]

17 minutes ago, cd37 said:

My friend I never disagreed about companies buying back stocks with profit but I directly work with airplane manufacturer and airlines thats why I am telling you that the business is not easy to maintain. Airlines do have cash reserves. All majoe US airlines has 100s of aircraft which now needs storage. It costs money, nobody owns space to store that many aircraft. Addtionally they have to maintain aircraft to meet regulatory storage requirements and still need to do required maintenance during storage time. Now this costs millions and millions. So forget about few months, they will run out of money in matter of weeks. Also they have lot of planes on order, they have to pay for that too and store them. Let me not get onto paying airport fees including takeoff and landing slots. You have been already educated now.

 

So if you keep crying and repeating same thing on this forum over and over doesnt make you correct. 

None of what you say accommodates for the billions airlines have wasted into stock buy back. The same billions they could have had available now to weather "all" these costs for a few months -- not weeks. What you say, still doesn't change the dynamics (and validity) of my argument.