Trump Touts Anti-Malaria Drug To Treat COVID-19

[Steeleballz 7,550]

13 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I can see you're into the suds a bit already, and I am sure it is well deserved, as I am sure your days are stressful lately.  Let's just give it a rest for tonight and talk about something else until tomorrow, eh?

 

    Sure, I'll take that little insult as your way of admitting that you don't really have any ground to stand on. I am sorry if the article mentioning Trump got you all triggered, but it's not worth getting sidetracked over.

 

  This is the 3rd overdose now that I am aware of. The therapeutic index for these drugs is small. They are not forgiving if people are messing around at home with unknown amounts. On a large scale, people are probably safer just taking their chance with the virus. 

 

    

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

29 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    Sure, I'll take that little insult as your way of admitting that you don't really have any ground to stand on. I am sorry if the article mentioning Trump got you all triggered, but it's not worth getting sidetracked over.

 

  This is the 3rd overdose now that I am aware of. The therapeutic index for these drugs is small. They are not forgiving if people are messing around at home with unknown amounts. On a large scale, people are probably safer just taking their chance with the virus. 

 

    

That's an insult?  Interesting.  I said it to you because you said it to me a short while back, just returning the favor.  When you said it, I took it as humor, had no idea you were trying to insult me.  Good to know now.

 

I wasn't triggered about Trump one bit.  But you posted your article about the death from aquarium cleaner in a thread that is about antimalarial drugs and part of the topic involved the media mocking him for what he said.  And the very first line in your article said:

 

Quote

Health care company Banner Health announced Monday that a patient had died and his wife was in critical condition after they apparently took an anti-malaria drug touted by President Trump as a possible cure for coronavirus without a doctor's prescription.

 

So please don't try and pretend now that isn't what you were trying to convey after you posted in a thread about that very same thing.  Ain't buying it, m8.  It was a slam against Trump, and we all know it.  Which is fine.  But as a medical professional, a little courtesy vis-a-vis mentioning the guy took aquarium cleaner when you posted the article as "an example of what NOT to do" might have been better.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

33 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

That's an insult?  Interesting.  I said it to you because you said it to me a short while back, just returning the favor.  When you said it, I took it as humor, had no idea you were trying to insult me.  Good to know now.

 

I wasn't triggered about Trump one bit.  But you posted your article about the death from aquarium cleaner in a thread that is about antimalarial drugs and part of the topic involved the media mocking him for what he said.  And the very first line in your article said:

 

 

So please don't try and pretend now that isn't what you were trying to convey after you posted in a thread about that very same thing.  Ain't buying it, m8.  It was a slam against Trump, and we all know it.  Which is fine.  But as a medical professional, a little courtesy vis-a-vis mentioning the guy took aquarium cleaner when you posted the article as "an example of what NOT to do" might have been better.

 

  He didn't take "aquarium cleaner". He took chloroquine phosphate, the same drug you listed a few posts back as taking 500 mg twice a day. He bought it from an aquarium store. It's used to kill parasites in aquariums. Just like any other antibiotic or medicine for aquarium use, it is dosed for aqueous solution, not human consumption.

[TBoneTX 45,963]

Now, now, dudes...

[TBoneTX 45,963]

Wonder who's taking azithromycin out of panic?

 

Old doctor once told me, "Never take antibiotics without talking to a doctor or somebody first.  They mask things."

Never had the chance to question him further.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

9 minutes ago, TBoneTX said:

Wonder who's taking azithromycin out of panic?

 

Old doctor once told me, "Never take antibiotics without talking to a doctor or somebody first.  They mask things."

Never had the chance to question him further.

 

    No one should be taking antibiotics unless they develop a secondary bacterial infection. I'm sure some people will take them any way though.  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  He didn't take "aquarium cleaner". He took chloroquine phosphate, the same drug you listed a few posts back as taking 500 mg twice a day. He bought it from an aquarium store. It's used to kill parasites in aquariums. Just like any other antibiotic or medicine for aquarium use, it is dosed for aqueous solution, not human consumption.

I'm well aware what it is, I have used it many times, as I used to run a fish store and have owned aquariums for years.  It can cure ich, velvet, and is used as an algaecide.  Safer (except when ingested, duh) than using copper in an aquarium.

 

Oddly enough, the instructions don't include any RDA dosing for humans.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Dashinka 24,743]

Well Governor Cuomo is now touting this so it must be good.  At least this is what we will hear from the activist media.  So some idiot drinks aquarium cleaner, I guess we should just give up.

[yuna628 9,700]

6 hours ago, TBoneTX said:

Wonder who's taking azithromycin out of panic?

 

Old doctor once told me, "Never take antibiotics without talking to a doctor or somebody first.  They mask things."

Never had the chance to question him further.

I was recently given a Zpack under doctors orders of course. It seemed to help. But I can tell you there are shortages. That's quite scary as it's still an important antibiotic and people do need it. Shortages really are some of the most stressful things to deal with when you end up waiting days or weeks longer to receive a medication that you desperately need. It relies on me to constantly bug the pharmacist, who may not be swift in trying to put in replacement orders when I need my medication to keep going every day. There's not enough supply and too much demand. And that's a more complex medication.. can't imagine how it would be for something simple like that.

 

6 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

    No one should be taking antibiotics unless they develop a secondary bacterial infection. I'm sure some people will take them any way though.  

Doctors used to put me on antibiotics constantly as a child. Couldn't stand it. If it wasn't for frequent ear infections it was insect bite related cellulitis. They'd always give me antibiotics instead of steroids. I had to wait until about ten years before cetirizine came out and a new doctor said ''omg stop with the antibiotics you're just having a bad allergic reaction!" Cetirizine was a godsend. An expensive godsend, that I'd then have to fight with the insurance company to get pre-approved. Since it went over the counter life was much better.

 

Also what is with people thinking they can just take fish tablets? I knew of people that refused to take their kids to the doctor and would dose them with fish antibiotics. >_<

Edited March 24, 2020 by yuna628

[Steeleballz 7,550]

2 hours ago, yuna628 said:

I was recently given a Zpack under doctors orders of course. It seemed to help. But I can tell you there are shortages. That's quite scary as it's still an important antibiotic and people do need it. Shortages really are some of the most stressful things to deal with when you end up waiting days or weeks longer to receive a medication that you desperately need. It relies on me to constantly bug the pharmacist, who may not be swift in trying to put in replacement orders when I need my medication to keep going every day. There's not enough supply and too much demand. And that's a more complex medication.. can't imagine how it would be for something simple like that.

 

Doctors used to put me on antibiotics constantly as a child. Couldn't stand it. If it wasn't for frequent ear infections it was insect bite related cellulitis. They'd always give me antibiotics instead of steroids. I had to wait until about ten years before cetirizine came out and a new doctor said ''omg stop with the antibiotics you're just having a bad allergic reaction!" Cetirizine was a godsend. An expensive godsend, that I'd then have to fight with the insurance company to get pre-approved. Since it went over the counter life was much better.

 

Also what is with people thinking they can just take fish tablets? I knew of people that refused to take their kids to the doctor and would dose them with fish antibiotics. >_<

 

   I do think taking antibiotics when not necessary is risky because it destroys our normal flora, and down the road people do end up having issues with things like digestion, wound healing and poor immunity. We can recover by over time, but it's difficult when you always have to take them.

 

  The biggest issue to me is just that overuse is leading to strains of bacteria that are resistant to everything, and we'll eventually have to deal with that becoming a significant cause of mortality when there is nothing left to treat these diseases with. Bacterial resistance would happen eventually with any antibiotic, but overuse and inappropriate use makes it happen exponentially faster.

[laylalex 7,300]

But the wife of the man who died has said that they took it because Trump was on TV promoting the drug:

Quote

 

The name "chloroquine" resonated with the man's wife, who asked that her name not be used to protect the family's privacy. She'd used it previously to treat her koi fish.

"I saw it sitting on the back shelf and thought, 'Hey, isn't that the stuff they're talking about on TV?'"

"Trump kept saying it was basically pretty much a cure," she said, adding her advice for people would be, "Don't take anything. Don't believe anything. Don't believe anything that the president says and his people ... call your doctor."

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-news-arizona-man-dies-after-taking-chloroquine-drug-touted-by-trump-as-treatment/

 

This isn't to say what they did wasn't stupid, but it does possibly say that stupid people aren't able to parse what Trump is saying or trying to say. Right now I'm not paying any attention to what politicians say about the science behind the virus -- I'm only paying attention to scientists, doctors and other qualified medical professionals. I listen to the politicians about policy -- what's being shut down, for how long, etc.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, laylalex said:

But the wife of the man who died has said that they took it because Trump was on TV promoting the drug:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-news-arizona-man-dies-after-taking-chloroquine-drug-touted-by-trump-as-treatment/

 

This isn't to say what they did wasn't stupid, but it does possibly say that stupid people aren't able to parse what Trump is saying or trying to say. Right now I'm not paying any attention to what politicians say about the science behind the virus -- I'm only paying attention to scientists, doctors and other qualified medical professionals. I listen to the politicians about policy -- what's being shut down, for how long, etc.

 

   Thanks. My original point was not that Trump said anything, which is actually the reason I didn't post that part of the article here, where people like to run with everything Trump does or doesn't do. People are desperate and panicking and it leads to stupid things. People wouldn't normally use pet store anti-biotics and anti-parasitics, but we have already seen people (in general) are not acting with all of their faculties at the moment.

 

   My intent of posting this was pointing out the dangers that people are putting themselves into. This is not a wonder drug. There is a reason it is not widely used in the first place. There is a very low margin of error for some of these drugs. Too low to be self medicating with non pharmaceutical alternatives.

[Dashinka 24,743]

27 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Thanks. My original point was not that Trump said anything, which is actually the reason I didn't post that part of the article here, where people like to run with everything Trump does or doesn't do. People are desperate and panicking and it leads to stupid things. People wouldn't normally use pet store anti-biotics and anti-parasitics, but we have already seen people (in general) are not acting with all of their faculties at the moment.

 

   My intent of posting this was pointing out the dangers that people are putting themselves into. This is not a wonder drug. There is a reason it is not widely used in the first place. There is a very low margin of error for some of these drugs. Too low to be self medicating with non pharmaceutical alternatives.

Isn’t that true about almost any drug?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Isn’t that true about almost any drug?

 

   Depends. As a general rule, most drugs that have narrow ranges between therapeutic and toxic are not easily available. Many common antibiotics are available over the shelf at aquarium stores, and some are relatively toxic. Even when the does is similar, they are not formulated for human consumption. They do say that on the packaging. 

 

  Then again, people inadvertently overdose on acetaminophen all the time, so it's not like this is unique or anything. My personal approach has always been I might die from disease, but I don't ever want to die from the "cure".

 

  

[Dashinka 24,743]

16 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Depends. As a general rule, most drugs that have narrow ranges between therapeutic and toxic are not easily available. Many common antibiotics are available over the shelf at aquarium stores, and some are relatively toxic. Even when the does is similar, they are not formulated for human consumption. They do say that on the packaging. 

 

  Then again, people inadvertently overdose on acetaminophen all the time, so it's not like this is unique or anything. My personal approach has always been I might die from disease, but I don't ever want to die from the "cure".

 

  

Sounds just like what President Trump said yesterday.  Of course he said it in front of a bunch of activist journalists, so it certainly was reported differently.