Illinois Gov. Tells Trump Admin to ‘Get Its S@#t Together’ After Airport Chaos

[Lil bear 4,189]

30 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

That is kind of what happens when you dont have weeks to plan and have hours to react in an emergency 

Exactly. 

I disagree. Robust  EM plans are capable of rapid action and are flexible enough to begin well. Messy .. yes..  perfect .. no..  but they can be done better  than this .. I speak from 10 years active work in Emergency Management. 

[Dashinka 24,488]

43 minutes ago, Lil bear said:

Obviously an impractical solution. What would have worked?  
1. liaison with FAA to stagger flight arrivals with adequate intervals between. FAA manages arrival slots all the time. 
2. Coordinate with ORD  to  arrange  disembarkation and management of incoming passengers into multiple areas rather than one single area. Holding passengers in smaller groups in waiting areas to allow for some separation and reduced contact. 
3. moving passengers into the active immigration area as others leave 

 

These are typical airport emergency management protocols and procedures that are used in good Emergency Management plans

Identify the risks

identify the possible consequences including worst case scenarios 

Mitigate the consequences by active interventions

Plan, Prepare, Practice 
 

But , this type of response requires collaboration and trust  across all agencies and tiers of government .. not something in which the US seems to do well. 

The FAA does not have complete authority over when aircraft depart from a foreign airport or the amount of fuel a plane may be carrying.  Their only option would be to hold a plane on the ground at the US arrival airport, and then we would hear of all the comments of being stuck on the tarmac. 

[Lil bear 4,189]

10 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

The FAA does not have complete authority over when aircraft depart from a foreign airport or the amount of fuel a plane may be carrying.  Their only option would be to hold a plane on the ground at the US arrival airport, and then we would hear of all the comments of being stuck on the tarmac. 

It’s not about any one agency having “the” answer. It’s about all stakeholders working together .. addressing what is in their sphere of command and control.. and together getting the best .. not the right , perfect or crowd pleasing... outcome in each step of a very fluid situation 

Edited March 15, 2020 by Lil bear

[Dashinka 24,488]

Just now, Lil bear said:

It’s not about any or agency having “the” answer. It’s about all stakeholders working together .. addressing what is in their sphere of command and control.. and together getting the best .. not the right , perfect or crowd pleasing... outcome in each step of a very fluid situation 

I agree with that.

[DELETEME1234 208]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Or the fact that almost every post you have made concerning this tragedy. has been an attempt to twist this crisis to being his fault.

Just because I don't join the circle jerk by posting news articles that dissent with the opinion of the average Trump supporter here, doesn't make it 'twisting this crisis' nor does it except Trump from any blame.  

 

You're acting like the man ordered Dijon mustard and I'm blowing it out of proportion. 

 

Fact are simple:

 

The travel ban's usefulness is being questioned by experts, this is a fact.

The execution of the screening is less than desirable because it not only packs people on top of each other for hours, which increases the likelihood of people getting infected, in the chaos it has also mixed people that wouldn't need the screening with the people that do need screening. Unnecessarily exposing people to infection, this is a fact.

The President of the United States holds the end responsibility in a political sense, if one of his agencies messes up, by definition he is to blame, this is a fact. 

 

These are simple facts and no amount of deflecting will change that. 

 

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

You dont care about the human suffering as long as it makes Trump look bad.

Source?

 

54 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

Their only option would be to hold a plane on the ground at the US arrival airport, and then we would hear of all the comments of being stuck on the tarmac.

Perhaps, but this is missing the main issue with the current way of how things were handled. Being stuck and having to wait hours is a discomfort but on it's own there's nothing inherently dangerous about it (even if you have someone in the airplane that is a carrier, you're most likely to get it from them by breathing in recirculated air during the flight anyways), the mix of people, packed on top of each other and different risk levels mixed together is the issue. 

 

Also keep in mind that they might not be able to leave airplanes in the air, but we're dealing with a country that requires the biggest dataset of inbound passengers than any country in the form of APIS. You're telling me they couldn't use the information on inbound passengers to triage a bit better and separate them a bit better? 

 

If even one person in the crowd got infected and dies as a result, that is on Donald J. Trump.

 

The rooster that took credit for the sunrise acted surprised when they blamed him for the sunset…

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Or the fact that almost every post you have made concerning this tragedy. has been an attempt to twist this crisis to being his fault.

You dont care about the human suffering as long as it makes Trump look bad.

I literally love you and your pointed posts right now!

 

Spent the day away from the internet (well, part of it anyway) hanging out with my neighbors.  The ones old enough to remember SARS, MERS, and even AIDS.   Had a few laughs, drank a few drinks., and ended with offering to shop for them tomorrow (as we are probably the youngest people in the neighborhood). All thanked me, but declined.   Life is good. Going to enjoy the rest of a quiet evening at home with my beautiful wife.  Hope you have a great night as well!!

[Dashinka 24,488]

7 minutes ago, Poseidon1212 said:

Just because I don't join the circle jerk by posting news articles that dissent with the opinion of the average Trump supporter here, doesn't make it 'twisting this crisis' nor does it except Trump from any blame.  

 

You're acting like the man ordered Dijon mustard and I'm blowing it out of proportion. 

 

Fact are simple:

 

The travel ban's usefulness is being questioned by experts, this is a fact.

The execution of the screening is less than desirable because it not only packs people on top of each other for hours, which increases the likelihood of people getting infected, in the chaos it has also mixed people that wouldn't need the screening with the people that do need screening. Unnecessarily exposing people to infection, this is a fact.

The President of the United States holds the end responsibility in a political sense, if one of his agencies messes up, by definition he is to blame, this is a fact. 

 

These are simple facts and no amount of deflecting will change that. 

 

Source?

 

Perhaps, but this is missing the main issue with the current way of how things were handled. Being stuck and having to wait hours is a discomfort but on it's own there's nothing inherently dangerous about it (even if you have someone in the airplane that is a carrier, you're most likely to get it from them by breathing in recirculated air during the flight anyways), the mix of people, packed on top of each other and different risk levels mixed together is the issue. 

 

Also keep in mind that they might not be able to leave airplanes in the air, but we're dealing with a country that requires the biggest dataset of inbound passengers than any country in the form of APIS. You're telling me they couldn't use the information on inbound passengers to triage a bit better and separate them a bit better? 

 

If even one person in the crowd got infected and dies as a result, that is on Donald J. Trump.

 

The rooster that took credit for the sunrise acted surprised when they blamed him for the sunset…

I think you are missing the point of just how big and bloated the federal government is.  The bureaucracy of the US government may not be as bad as say the Russian government, but it is still pretty bad. But I get your point, you just want an authoritarian President to heap all the blame on.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, Lil bear said:

I disagree. Robust  EM plans are capable of rapid action and are flexible enough to begin well. Messy .. yes..  perfect .. no..  but they can be done better  than this .. I speak from 10 years active work in Emergency Management. 

Great. How many international airports have you managed in that time?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess.... zero.  Totally different animal.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

6 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Great. How many international airports have you managed in that time?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess.... zero.  Totally different animal.

Probably some talking point from some Trump hating blog

 

I got as far as the FAA staggering international flights, got a good chuckle and stopped reading

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Lil bear said:

Obviously an impractical solution. What would have worked?  
1. liaison with FAA to stagger flight arrivals with adequate intervals between. FAA manages arrival slots all the time. 
2. Coordinate with ORD  to  arrange  disembarkation and management of incoming passengers into multiple areas rather than one single area. Holding passengers in smaller groups in waiting areas to allow for some separation and reduced contact. 
3. moving passengers into the active immigration area as others leave 

 

These are typical airport emergency management protocols and procedures that are used in good Emergency Management plans

Identify the risks

identify the possible consequences including worst case scenarios 

Mitigate the consequences by active interventions

Plan, Prepare, Practice 
 

But , this type of response requires collaboration and trust  across all agencies and tiers of government .. not something in which the US seems to do well. 

That's ONE international airport.  What about the other 148?  With arrivals from over 1,000 various departure airports?   You are suggesting changing schedules of airlines that have been in place for months at the drop of a hat.  Sounds good, briefs well, until you actually start doing it.  ONE PLANE's worth of passengers took over FIVE HOURS to pass customs in Dublin yesterday.  Multiply that times EVERY international airport in the world, about 1,200.  People will start missing connecting flights, are now stuck living in terminals all over the world.... 

 

Coordinate with ORD.  Again I ask... how many airports have you managed, even in normal daily operations???

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

26 minutes ago, Poseidon1212 said:

Just because I don't join the circle jerk by posting news articles that dissent with the opinion of the average Trump supporter here, doesn't make it 'twisting this crisis' nor does it except Trump from any blame.  

 

You're acting like the man ordered Dijon mustard and I'm blowing it out of proportion. 

 

Fact are simple:

 

The travel ban's usefulness is being questioned by experts, this is a fact.

The execution of the screening is less than desirable because it not only packs people on top of each other for hours, which increases the likelihood of people getting infected, in the chaos it has also mixed people that wouldn't need the screening with the people that do need screening. Unnecessarily exposing people to infection, this is a fact.

The President of the United States holds the end responsibility in a political sense, if one of his agencies messes up, by definition he is to blame, this is a fact. 

 

These are simple facts and no amount of deflecting will change that. 

 

Source?

 

Perhaps, but this is missing the main issue with the current way of how things were handled. Being stuck and having to wait hours is a discomfort but on it's own there's nothing inherently dangerous about it (even if you have someone in the airplane that is a carrier, you're most likely to get it from them by breathing in recirculated air during the flight anyways), the mix of people, packed on top of each other and different risk levels mixed together is the issue. 

 

Also keep in mind that they might not be able to leave airplanes in the air, but we're dealing with a country that requires the biggest dataset of inbound passengers than any country in the form of APIS. You're telling me they couldn't use the information on inbound passengers to triage a bit better and separate them a bit better? 

 

If even one person in the crowd got infected and dies as a result, that is on Donald J. Trump.

 

The rooster that took credit for the sunrise acted surprised when they blamed him for the sunset…

Oh, brother.  You are special, aren't you?  

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

Travel bans "questioned by experts".. lol. No one falls for this anymore.

 

The President holds the "end responsibility" for.. something. 

 

Orange man bad.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Travel bans "questioned by experts".. lol. No one falls for this anymore.

 

The President holds the "end responsibility" for.. something. 

 

Orange man bad.

When he banned travel, he was fought by dems.

 

Now the dems are saying he should have banned travel more, and should have the infrastructure to support said bans.  

 

What a wishy-washy bunch of idiots.

 

"Only blue will do!!!!"

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

25 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

That's ONE international airport.  What about the other 148?  With arrivals from over 1,000 various departure airports?   You are suggesting changing schedules of airlines that have been in place for months at the drop of a hat.  Sounds good, briefs well, until you actually start doing it.  ONE PLANE's worth of passengers took over FIVE HOURS to pass customs in Dublin yesterday.  Multiply that times EVERY international airport in the world, about 1,200.  People will start missing connecting flights, are now stuck living in terminals all over the world.... 

 

Coordinate with ORD.  Again I ask... how many airports have you managed, even in normal daily operations???

Last time I came back to ATL from the Philippines it took us a good 2 hours to clear customs. That was one Jumbo jet with no health screens. Really no shocker when you factor in a global emergency. 

Anything however to use this disaster to futher political hatred.  Cant blame them, they have been trying for 3 years and all they have had is a fake impeachment and he fed the Goldfish too much.

 

Should FDR have been impeached becuse he was not ready for pearl harbor and WW2. Seems like it took a second to gear up for that as well.

[DELETEME1234 208]

44 minutes ago, Dashinka said:

But I get your point, you just want an authoritarian President to heap all the blame on.

On the contrary, I'm used to leaders who understand that they bear end responsibility. I'd hardly call the Dutch parliamentarian system authoritarian, we don't have something like executive privilege for example. It didn't used to be a foreign notion to Americans, Truman even had an ornament on his desk underwriting the principle.  

 

29 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Oh, brother.  You are special, aren't you?

Reasonably so, not as special as Trump though.

 

20 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Now the dems are saying he should have banned travel more, and should have the infrastructure to support said bans.  

 

What a wishy-washy bunch of idiots.

Wishy-washy eh? You mean like calling it a 'dem h0ax' one day and declaring a state of national emergency the other? 

 

Either way, I'm glad we at least have some capable governors who step up to the plate when Trump is failing left, right and centre. Can't wait till November.

Edited March 16, 2020 by Poseidon1212