Trump administration blocks states from using Medicaid to respond to coronavirus crisis

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Oh, brother.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

16 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

There are several public health warnings in place, including a long standing one for the  opioid epidemic. You would agree that no health crisis in the last 20 years maybe 100 years, come close to this crisis.

    The Spanish flu pandemic was worse. They suspect that a mutation over the summer made the virus much more virulent during the second year of circulation. Obviously they didn't manage it as well as we can nowadays and many of the treatments and medicines we have today were not even around then. 

[90DayFinancier 910]

18 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

    The Spanish flu pandemic was worse. They suspect that a mutation over the summer made the virus much more virulent during the second year of circulation. Obviously they didn't manage it as well as we can nowadays and many of the treatments and medicines we have today were not even around then. 

I agree, and that was more than 100 years ago.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

50 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

I agree, and that was more than 100 years ago.

 

    They were still in the midst of the Spanish flu pandemic 100 years ago. It ended in Dec 1920.

[Dashinka 24,487]

5 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

There are several public health warnings in place, including a long standing one for the  opioid epidemic. You would agree that no health crisis in the last 20 years maybe 100 years, come close to this crisis.

I don’t think we have enough information to say that yet.  One could argue the Spanish flu pandemic was worse at this point killing 50-100 million in a time when global travel was not as widespread was worse.  Time and data will tell.

[DELETEME1234 208]

11 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Can you explain the source of your hilarity for us laypersons?\\

The quote itself actually explains the source you might want to reread the part in which you quote me? Although, admittedly at this point it's more sadness that is overcoming me, given how pathetic this administration has been handling this so far. 

 

11 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

I am trying to work with you and see where the humor is, but for the life of me, am having trouble finding it.

That's ok, don't beat yourself up over it. Instead I suggest you look at the stuff that follows, maybe then you'll understand how ridiculous your attempt to not only compare these numbers, but draw conclusions from them as well. 

 

You know, this part:

11 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

China - 80,881 cases, 3,226 deaths

US - 4,667 cases, 87 deaths

 

(Source)

 

That alone should make you realise that there's something severely wrong with your comparison, since it requires a literal impossibility for it to be a useful comparison. 

 

There's still not enough testing, we are still severely behind. People literally fly to China to get tested because they can't get it here.

 

This is the current state of affairs:

(Source)

 

China, is in fact, doing better than the US right now, like it or not. If you don't want to take my word for it, then perhaps the UN can convince you: 

 

Quote

China shows COVID-19 Coronavirus can be ‘stopped in its tracks’

While more than 153,00 cases of the respiratory illness have been recorded globally as of Sunday, it is on the decline in China, demonstrating that the course of the outbreak there has been altered, according to WHO Representative in the country, Dr. Gauden Galea. 

 

 “It is an epidemic that has been nipped as it was growing and stopped in its tracks. This is very clear from the data that we have, as well as the observations that we can see in society in general”, he told UN News in the capital, Beijing, on Saturday.  

 

“So that's a big lesson: that the natural course of the outbreak does not need to be a very high peak that overwhelms health services. This lesson in containment, therefore, is a lesson that other countries can learn from and adapt for their own circumstances”. 

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/03/1059502

 

Or perhaps PBS is neutral enough for you? 

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/the-reason-u-s-covid-19-numbers-arent-higher-not-enough-tests

 

But you want to insist that the statistical numbers are representative of reality? 

Ok, sure let's do it. 

 

Johns Hopkins

 

Reports the following numbers:

China: 81,058 cases - 68,798 recovered, that is a recovery rate of 84.8%

US: 4,661 cases - 17 recovered, that is a recovery rate of 0.3%

 

The US' number is abysmal standing alone and a joke when compared to China or even Italy. 

 

Point is, our numbers here in the US are unreliable because tests are still not widely available and like it or not China has been and is handling this pandemic better. So much so that the consensus amongst the world's expert is that they function as an example. 

 

Meanwhile we're stuck with an administration that just started taking seriously. Today the news broke that officials realise that there's not enough stockpiled material even though last week Dr. Sanjay Gupta already told this administration on national tv that the national stockpile doesn't have enough ventilators with a calculation any moron can do on a napkin, yet CMS administrator Verma just shrugged it off and that about sums up how the current administration has been dealing with this crisis. 

 

 

 

 

It's about time people drop the anti-intellectualism and the persecution complex that is often tied to it and start coming to terms with the facts. Instead of defending 'your guy' at all costs, how about you reach out to him and your other representatives and push them to get their act together? Instead of joining him being grieved that other officials, like governors, step up to the plate to try their best, tell him that he should help them out and join forces. Instead of acting like it's a ridiculous notion that elsewhere they're doing a better job, inform yourself on why that's the case and try and push for similar actions to receive similar results where possible. 

 

Here's an explainer/primer on understanding some of the terms and the numbers that are thrown around for anyone who's interested: https://thecorrespondent.com/352/deciphering-the-pandemic-a-guide-to-understanding-the-coronavirus-numbers/46600999104-c9d0a80e?pk_campaign=daily

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Yes, I believe I pointed out days ago that China seems to have gotten it under control for now, great news forevery one.  They have been dealing with it for 4 months now.  The US for 2 months.  That likely means it will get worse before it gets better, unfortunately. 

 

Know what I haven't seen in the US yet?  Soldiers welding the doors of its citizens shut, and forcing them to stay home.  Pretty effective measure.  Is that what you want us to do as well?

 

Reports the following numbers:

China: 81,058 cases - 68,798 recovered, that is a recovery rate of 84.8%

US: 4,661 cases - 17 recovered, that is a recovery rate of 0.3%

 

Time is all it takes.  Just relax, let's look back on this in another 30 days, shall we?

Edited March 17, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[DELETEME1234 208]

21 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Is that what you want us to do as well?

Honestly?

 

If I have to choose between

 

 

 

 

 

 

And

 

 

 

 

Then I'm inclined to go with the latter option. 

Especially considering there are reports of people who have been tested positive and have been told to stay home, but then decided to ####### around. Patient 31 in South-Korea did that and is singlehandedly responsible of ###### up the quarantine measures and infecting hundreds if not thousands. 

 

Now we don't live in an authoritarian country (not officially anyways) so having the doors welded shut is a bit difficult to realise, but would I mind a strictly enforced curfew? Not at all. Spain and Italy are already doing that, have people be home and if you're on the streets without good reason and refuse to go back home you get arrested. 

[Orangesapples 1,954]

5 minutes ago, Poseidon1212 said:

Honestly?

 

If I have to choose between

 

 

 

 

 

 

And

 

 

 

 

Then I'm inclined to go with the latter option. 

Especially considering there are reports of people who have been tested positive and have been told to stay home, but then decided to ####### around. Patient 31 in South-Korea did that and is singlehandedly responsible of ###### up the quarantine measures and infecting hundreds if not thousands. 

 

Now we don't live in an authoritarian country (not officially anyways) so having the doors welded shut is a bit difficult to realise, but would I mind a strictly enforced curfew? Not at all. Spain and Italy are already doing that, have people be home and if you're on the streets without good reason and refuse to go back home you get arrested. 

A strictly enforced curfew and legally enforced quarantine for those that have been medically required to be quarantined is maybe the only option right now. I don't think we can rely on people being responsible and doing the right thing. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

12 minutes ago, Poseidon1212 said:

Honestly?

 

If I have to choose between

 

*snip*

 

Then I'm inclined to go with the latter option. 

Especially considering there are reports of people who have been tested positive and have been told to stay home, but then decided to ####### around. Patient 31 in South-Korea did that and is singlehandedly responsible of ###### up the quarantine measures and infecting hundreds if not thousands. 

 

Now we don't live in an authoritarian country (not officially anyways) so having the doors welded shut is a bit difficult to realise, but would I mind a strictly enforced curfew? Not at all. Spain and Italy are already doing that, have people be home and if you're on the streets without good reason and refuse to go back home you get arrested. 

Sounds great, until it actually happens.  I bet it would take about 30 minutes for people to be crying about their constitutional rights being violated on the news.

 

I agree with you, people are idiots, like the guy who flew from JFK-PBI last week after being told by his doctor that he had the virus.  Reee-diculous.  But logical folk don't need quarantines nor draconian measures to just stay home and avoid others as much as possible.  I am doing it without anyone forcing it on me, as I am sure you are too.  I go out if I need something, and I still talk to my neighbors, though it's from a bit farther away now.  And if I start coughing and have a fever, I will self-isolate until I am better, plus a few extra days to be sure.  

 

Curfews are already in place.  I hear NJ enjoyed their first night of it last night?  I am sure more will be put into place this week in various other areas.

ETA: I just watched a video from a foreign country where the police stopped a fellow driving down the street with his window down.  They forced hi to get out of his car, threw a hood over his head, took him to the side of the street, and proceeded to spray him down with some sort of chemical (I assume it was to "decontaminate" him?).  It can get rather silly rather quickly as fear spreads.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[DELETEME1234 208]

22 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

I don't think we can rely on people being responsible and doing the right thing. 

That's my worry when I see infected people just shrugging off quarantine instructions. 

 

20 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I bet it would take about 30 minutes for people to be crying about their constitutional rights being violated on the news.

If you listen carefully there's always someone, somewhere in the US crying about their constitutional rights being violated, plus years of pop-media has prepared us for the military forcing us in mandatory quarantine 😜

 

20 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

I agree with you,

No no no, what do you think you're doing? How am I going to get through the day without getting bored if we start agreeing all of a sudden?

 

20 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

 I am doing it without anyone forcing it on me, as I am sure you are too.  I go out if I need something, and I still talk to my neighbors, though it's from a bit farther away now.  And if I start coughing and have a fever, I will self-isolate until I am better, plus a few extra days to be sure.  

 

Curfews are already in place.  I hear NJ enjoyed their first night of it last night?  I am sure more will be put into place this week in various other areas.

On a serious note, I agree with you, welding doors shut is a bit ridiculous. However, I am also serious in saying that, if enough infected people don't take it seriously and don't self-quarantine, we don't have another choice but to force them.  

 

One person can cause a lot of damage, here are some handy diagrams about a case in South Korea: https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-SOUTHKOREA-CLUSTERS/0100B5G33SB/index.html

 

ETA: Also, credit where credit is due: Orange man not so bad lately

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Poseidon1212

[Steeleballz 7,550]

17 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Sounds great, until it actually happens.  I bet it would take about 30 minutes for people to be crying about their constitutional rights being violated on the news.

 

I agree with you, people are idiots, like the guy who flew from JFK-PBI last week after being told by his doctor that he had the virus.  Reee-diculous.  But logical folk don't need quarantines nor draconian measures to just stay home and avoid others as much as possible.  I am doing it without anyone forcing it on me, as I am sure you are too.  I go out if I need something, and I still talk to my neighbors, though it's from a bit farther away now.  And if I start coughing and have a fever, I will self-isolate until I am better, plus a few extra days to be sure.  

 

Curfews are already in place.  I hear NJ enjoyed their first night of it last night?  I am sure more will be put into place this week in various other areas.

ETA: I just watched a video from a foreign country where the police stopped a fellow driving down the street with his window down.  They forced hi to get out of his car, threw a hood over his head, took him to the side of the street, and proceeded to spray him down with some sort of chemical (I assume it was to "decontaminate" him?).  It can get rather silly rather quickly as fear spreads.

 

   Police are already stopping one guy who tested positive (and won't quarantine) from leaving his house. If people don't cooperate with voluntary measures, we should have no doubt they will take them up a notch. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

54 minutes ago, Poseidon1212 said:

That's my worry when I see infected people just shrugging off quarantine instructions. 

 

If you listen carefully there's always someone, somewhere in the US crying about their constitutional rights being violated, plus years of pop-media has prepared us for the military forcing us in mandatory quarantine 😜

 

No no no, what do you think you're doing? How am I going to get through the day without getting bored if we start agreeing all of a sudden?

 

On a serious note, I agree with you, welding doors shut is a bit ridiculous. However, I am also serious in saying that, if enough infected people don't take it seriously and don't self-quarantine, we don't have another choice but to force them.  

 

One person can cause a lot of damage, here are some handy diagrams about a case in South Korea: https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-SOUTHKOREA-CLUSTERS/0100B5G33SB/index.html

 

ETA: Also, credit where credit is due: Orange man not so bad lately

 

Ermagherd, they may have to shut CEHST down for a day! 

 

Forcing sucks, but if people are sick and not doing the right thing,  what else is there to do?

[90DayFinancier 910]

1 hour ago, Poseidon1212 said:

That's my worry when I see infected people just shrugging off quarantine instructions. 

 

If you listen carefully there's always someone, somewhere in the US crying about their constitutional rights being violated, plus years of pop-media has prepared us for the military forcing us in mandatory quarantine 😜

 

No no no, what do you think you're doing? How am I going to get through the day without getting bored if we start agreeing all of a sudden?

 

On a serious note, I agree with you, welding doors shut is a bit ridiculous. However, I am also serious in saying that, if enough infected people don't take it seriously and don't self-quarantine, we don't have another choice but to force them.  

 

One person can cause a lot of damage, here are some handy diagrams about a case in South Korea: https://graphics.reuters.com/CHINA-HEALTH-SOUTHKOREA-CLUSTERS/0100B5G33SB/index.html

 

ETA: Also, credit where credit is due: Orange man not so bad lately

 

Would you give him a ten?

[DELETEME1234 208]

10 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Would you give him a ten?

Don't be ridiculous.