All things Corona Virus

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,366]

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

Well, you might want to share some of that science with David Sexton, PDQ.

 

 

https://odoban.com/blog/does-odoban-disinfectant-kill-coronavirus-march-2020-response/

Whats your point. I know David well. A brilliant chemist and nice guy and does not need anything shared to him by either of us.

 

Products have to have efficacy testing and the data set has to be approved by the EPA before it can legally make a claim to kill a specific virus. Since COVID-19 is a new virus and was not readly available Odoban has not officially been approved. 

 

Quaternary Ammonium or Quat for short is one of the active ingredients in Odoban and is on the EPA N list which is, products expected to kill Covid 19, that the EPA published until efficacy testings can be completed.  

 

Without looking I think it was July before efficacy tests on some products were completed and certified by the EPA. Lysol was one which contains one of the Quat Family

 

In short Covid 19 is a simple enveloped RNA strand virus, that is very easly killed by almost all disinfects already on the market. Not just killed but massacred.  Hitting covid 19 with one of the Quats is like hitting an Ant with a 10lb sledge hammer.

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I kind recommend a product called ODOBAN, sold at Sams, Walmart and Home Depot. It will kill Corona Virus. Its a great disinfectant. I was the Ops director for 14 years. Good stuff 

Don't get me wrong, I like OdoBan.  Great laundry additive as well as good surface cleaner.  I just think your claim is perhaps misleading.  (Wouldn't want anyone blaming you for drinking it like that woman who killed her husband in AZ)

 

And yes, it most likely WILL kill coronavirus... given time and proper application.  (So does regular soap, alcohol, sunlight,  etc.)  Do you know how long that wet dwell time is?  I haven't seen anything listed for this product specifically.  But in my experience, most disinfectants need between 60 seconds and 10 minutes of being kept wet to be effective.  

 

(I use 10 minutes because a chemical our company has passed out as a disinfectant has this requirement, and it's about the slowest time for efficacy i have seen to date)

 

Also - 

 

In most cases, quats are total overkill for your everyday household cleaning needs. Unless you plan on doing some open-heart surgery on your kitchen table, there is no need for quats to sterilize the surfaces in your house. We know from lab testing that quats do effectively kill many kinds of microbes like E. Coli and Staph. Aureus – but there are serious potential side effects that comes along with that power. It’s like killing a housefly with a sledgehammer – there is no question the sledgehammer will be very effective (with a direct hit) but the side effects (the gaping holes in your wall) are pretty unpleasant, not to mention unnecessary. Because while quats do kill germs on surfaces, studies of quat use in households have never been able to show that it makes you or your family any healthier than if you used soap and water. Truly, not a single study has been able to show reduced illness at home from using antibacterial cleaners. (Studies on frequent handwashing with soap and water on the other hand clearly show health benefits.)

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,366]

50 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Don't get me wrong, I like OdoBan.  Great laundry additive as well as good surface cleaner.  I just think your claim is perhaps misleading.  (Wouldn't want anyone blaming you for drinking it like that woman who killed her husband in AZ)

 

And yes, it most likely WILL kill coronavirus... given time and proper application.  (So does regular soap, alcohol, sunlight,  etc.)  Do you know how long that wet dwell time is?  I haven't seen anything listed for this product specifically.  But in my experience, most disinfectants need between 60 seconds and 10 minutes of being kept wet to be effective.  

 

(I use 10 minutes because a chemical our company has passed out as a disinfectant has this requirement, and it's about the slowest time for efficacy i have seen to date)

 

Also - 

 

 

 

I guy with a masters degree in micro biology from Ga Tech with 25 years experience in Virology and efficacy testing that works there told me it very effectively kills Covid 19. I will share your doubts with him and see if he wants to reevaluate his postion..

 

 

[yuna628 9,646]

7 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

I guy with a masters degree in micro biology from Ga Tech with 25 years experience in Virology and efficacy testing that works there told me it very effectively kills Covid 19. I will share your doubts with him and see if he wants to reevaluate his postion..

 

 

Has it been tested by the EPA specially for COVID or are on List N? Not a lot of products currently have. PineSol was recently added to the list, but it's wait time could put some people off. The strongest bleach cleaner you can get still takes 3 minutes of wet time to kill most of the really big baddies. Currently any store you go to these days you can't find any cleaners but just straight bleach. Doctor's offices are running out of supplies. As of March, OdoBan couldn't confirm their product worked. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,366]

20 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Has it been tested by the EPA specially for COVID or are on List N? Not a lot of products currently have. PineSol was recently added to the list, but it's wait time could put some people off. The strongest bleach cleaner you can get still takes 3 minutes of wet time to kill most of the really big baddies. Currently any store you go to these days you can't find any cleaners but just straight bleach. Doctor's offices are running out of supplies. As of March, OdoBan couldn't confirm their product worked. 

Oh Jesus, how much more simple can I make it. The vast majority of disinfects already on the market are effective agianst covid 19, but have not had time to do efficacy testing so cant make legal claims 

[yuna628 9,646]

29 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Oh Jesus, how much more simple can I make it. The vast majority of disinfects already on the market are effective agianst covid 19, but have not had time to do efficacy testing so cant make legal claims 

Wasn't trying to give you a hard time. 

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 hour ago, yuna628 said:

Wasn't trying to give you a hard time. 

 

Don't apologize, he has thick skin, and he needs it from time to time.

 

Where did you read about 3 minutes wet time for bleach?  All I can find tends to range from 5-10 minutes.  I would imagine this wet time thing is nothing more than a CYA clause (because when I drink a glass of 0.12% NaOCl I start feeling gooder right away!), but it's interesting to see so much variance.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

3 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Oh Jesus, how much more simple can I make it. The vast majority of disinfects already on the market are effective agianst covid 19, but have not had time to do efficacy testing so cant make legal claims 

It happens, which is why people make judgments for themselves rather than rely on what bureaucracies or public figures tell them. Couldn't even imagine parenting based on what each governmental bureau or nonprofit/advocacy group thought was the best way to do X, Y, and Z. Thank god for heuristics and that the vast majority of decisions can be made at the individual level with experience and little to moderate research. 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

11 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

It happens, which is why people make judgments for themselves rather than rely on what bureaucracies or public figures tell them. Couldn't even imagine parenting based on what each governmental bureau or nonprofit/advocacy group thought was the best way to do X, Y, and Z. Thank god for heuristics and that the vast majority of decisions can be made at the individual level with experience and little to moderate research. 

And yet how many times have we heard, "We need to listen to the experts!"?

 

I'd take NB's advice or my own experience over 90% of what "experts" advise.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

24 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

And yet how many times have we heard, "We need to listen to the experts!"?

 

I'd take NB's advice or my own experience over 90% of what "experts" advise.

Except I believe NB has also been a "thou shalt listen to the experts" proponent.

 

I'm more than willing to listen to sound arguments especially from people with knowledge in a field, but the moment that idiot from the NIAID/NIH (who's name shall not be mentioned in this post) did his little facepalm stunt I knew what it was about for him. The media and politicians were just predictable "them" and almost completely useless if not detrimental. This is the heuristics I talk about. Sure, it can be wrong, but the vast majority of the time, this intuition is correct. The modifications we made were subtle changes to daily behaviors, we didn't go nuts packing stores to hoard things, get all hysterical, nor did we act like reckless morons. The problem solving class (in health) love to present things as so mind numbingly complex (attention=money, and thus they partner with the media to get attention, which is a huge red flag by itself) one must need the approval of them or some bureaucratic institution, yet the only thing they're good at is creating more problems than they solve.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,366]

2 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Except I believe NB has also been a "thou shalt listen to the experts" proponent.

 

I'm more than willing to listen to sound arguments especially from people with knowledge in a field, but the moment that idiot from the NIAID/NIH (who's name shall not be mentioned in this post) did his little facepalm stunt I knew what it was about for him. The media and politicians were just predictable "them" and almost completely useless if not detrimental. This is the heuristics I talk about. Sure, it can be wrong, but the vast majority of the time, this intuition is correct. The modifications we made were subtle changes to daily behaviors, we didn't go nuts packing stores to hoard things, get all hysterical, nor did we act like reckless morons. The problem solving class (in health) love to present things as so mind numbingly complex (attention=money, and thus they partner with the media to get attention, which is a huge red flag by itself) one must need the approval of them or some bureaucratic institution, yet the only thing they're good at is creating more problems than they solve.

Is heuristics the buzz werd of thr day ,,?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

41 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Is heuristics the buzz werd of thr day ,,?

Is that an actual question?

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,366]

30 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Is that an actual question?

Rhetorical 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Rhetorical 

Figured as much, just glad we didn't have to go over the triviality of what one considers a buzz word. 😃

[yuna628 9,646]

22 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Don't apologize, he has thick skin, and he needs it from time to time.

 

Where did you read about 3 minutes wet time for bleach?  All I can find tends to range from 5-10 minutes.  I would imagine this wet time thing is nothing more than a CYA clause (because when I drink a glass of 0.12% NaOCl I start feeling gooder right away!), but it's interesting to see so much variance.

Clorox Germicidal products has a range of stuff the EPA tested it to kill. Some big nasties they state need wet contact for 1 minute. Harder nasties need 3 minutes. Most of the rest in 30 seconds. I'm not sure exactly how these claims are validated. C Diff is extremely hard to kill on a good day and when dealing with the problem of getting that out of my home the doctor advised to use hospital grade products like that and a few other methods that didn't involve burning everything (though I have heard of some people going to strange lengths for it).  I did a lot of asking nurses and those concerned with cleaning infectious areas of a hospital - even the bleach may not kill everything as claimed and they are always looking for new ways to eliminate such superbugs. EPA claims that some List N Clorox products will take 30 seconds wet time to kill COVID. It's not a hard pathogen to kill since even soap and water will do. My main go to is always bleach and leave it on wet for as long as possible to be sure.