Coronavirus latest: Intensive care units in Italy urged to STOP treating elderly

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

The president is responsible for handling a crisis. 

 

https://www.inquirer.com/health/coronavirus/coronavirus-democracy-south-korea-trump-testing-china-20200312.html

Which brings us to South Korea, a country of 51 million people, which is testing around 15,000 citizens each day, at clinics and drive-through stations. This is more than the entire number the United States has tested until now.

So why has Seoul’s democracy been able to do what the United States has not?

The answer is better national leadership, better advance planning, and speed.

The answers is because they HAD the test kits on hand to do the testing.  Where did those test kits come from?

 

 

Quote

South Korea’s planning goes back to a 2015 outbreak of Middle East respiratory syndrome, or MERS. Then, the limited availability of test kits was blamed for aggravating the epidemic, which killed 38 people around the country.
 

That experience led the Seoul government to introduce an “emergency usage approval” system, which allowed for a fast-track approval for test kits during any outbreaks.

On Feb. 4, two weeks after South Korea reported its first coronavirus case, the government gave “emergency approval” for Seoul-based Kogene Biotech to move ahead with the test kits.

The company already had lab work underway for the test kits, anticipating that the coronavirus would spill over from China.

Production has been steadily ramped up to 10,000 kits a week. Each kit can administer 50 tests, and each person is tested twice on average for accuracy. That leaves the potential to test 250,000 people a week.

It was a similar story in China, which faced the outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, in 2002-3 and had plans in place to expand testing dramatically this time around.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/coronavirus-test-kits-south-korea-us/2020/03/13/007f14fc-64a1-11ea-8a8e-5c5336b32760_story.html

And it's pretty fair to say the Chinese had a head start on creating the test kits, IMO.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Voice of Reason

[Orangesapples 1,954]

15 minutes ago, NikLR said:

Depends where you are. 

There's a drive up testing place here in Denver. You need a doctor's note.  ER will test you if you show symptoms.  Results take between 24-72 hours. 

Compare it to South Korea. The US has done a terrible job. 

[Orangesapples 1,954]

3 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

The answers is because they HAD the test kits on hand to do the testing.  Where did those test kits come from?

Out of thin air? 

 

Making sure test kits are produced/supplied in a timely fashion is part of the appropriate response to a lingering pandemic. Somehow South Korea did it right and the US failed miserably. 

[Steeleballz 7,550]

4 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Computer models.

 

In February 2018, over 4,000 people were dying from H1N1/H3N2 flu strains every WEEK, just in the US.  959,000 people hospitalized, and 61,099 deaths in 5 months.  

 

  Indeed, which was a bad year for flu, but certainly doesn't compare to a death total that could be over a million. Keep in mind COVID-19 infection rates are unlikely to diminish significantly by natural means as the weather warms (the way seasonal flu does).

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

  Indeed, which was a bad year for flu, but certainly doesn't compare to a death total that could be over a million. Keep in mind COVID-19 infection rates are unlikely to diminish significantly by natural means as the weather warms (the way seasonal flu does).

That remains to be seen.  Mexico and the Caribbean seem to be doing fairly well as regards the spread of the disease.  Also, there have been flu vaccines for years.  Not so with covid-19 (yet).  Hopefully we will see positive results with the vaccine in WA by next week.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

8 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

That remains to be seen.  Mexico and the Caribbean seem to be doing fairly well as regards the spread of the disease.  Also, there have been flu vaccines for years.  Not so with covid-19 (yet).  Hopefully we will see positive results with the vaccine in WA by next week.

 

  It doesn't. It is spreading in warm, humid climates right now. Human beings have never been exposed to this strain of virus. There is no herd immunity to put any pressure on the virus to stop spreading in warmer months. It may not spread as well in warmer months, but it's not going away either.

 

  It's a misconception that viruses can't spread in warm weather. Flu is still around in summer too. Some years we get positives all summer. Flu doesn't spread as well in summer, but the main reason rates drop drastically is that most people have been exposed to flu at some point in there lives and/or been vaccinated. It is much harder for something to spread when 90% of the population has some degree of immunity, so combine that with the diminished ability to spread, and flu essentially disappears. It requires it's optimal conditions of fall and winter for transmission rates to increase. It is unlikely to work that way with COVID-19 until more people have some level of immunity. 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Steeleballz

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

14 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Out of thin air? 

 

Making sure test kits are produced/supplied in a timely fashion is part of the appropriate response to a lingering pandemic. Somehow South Korea did it right and the US failed miserably. 

A country the size of New York with a population density around 15 times that of the US can more quickly move supply around. Shocker.

 

[NikLR 13,228]

48 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Same in Canada. People who are exhibiting symptoms here need to be on hold for 3-6 hours calling 811, or are told to call it during "off peak hours" to get permission to see someone at a specific testing clinic for the Wuhan virus. They're told NOT to go to an ER, NOT to call 911, NOT to go to a public clinic, etc.

 

Meanwhile, spread is rapid regardless. And all you read about from deranged lefties is how awful Drumpf the big bad orange man is, naturally ignoring the fact that no one is actually containing this. Trump is basically as successful as anyone else. To even stand a chance of containing this before any real spread, Trump would've had to lock down the US grinding everything to a halt, which like now would've trainwrecked the economy, which the left are both celebrating and blaming Trump for anyways. 😂

 

Like all things, it'll pass, and the left will return to being miserable as the US succeeds, cementing what this is really about.

I don't give a flying F about the politics. 

[NikLR 13,228]

40 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Compare it to South Korea. The US has done a terrible job. 

You didn't state that originally.  You said you can't get tested.  I said you can. 

You didn't state, the testing is low or the testing is more difficult, or the testing wasn't responsive... just can't do. 

1 hour ago, Orangesapples said:

Testing in the US has been non existent. 

 

[DELETEME1234 208]

1 hour ago, NikLR said:

Depends where you are. 

There's a drive up testing place here in Denver. You need a doctor's note.  ER will test you if you show symptoms.  Results take between 24-72 hours. 

There has been some improvement over the last couple of days, but in a general nationwide sense it's negligible and rather embarrassing for a nation like the US.  

 

 

If we go by these numbers CNN just broadcasted then it's rather sad indeed. A quick calculation shows that means only 0.003% of the population has been tested. Compared to 0.14% in Italy or 0.45% in South Korea (that's 150x 0.003). And there is literally no reason for this, since the WHO already offered tests weeks ago.

 

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

Not true.

Maybe not in a literal sense, but definitely in a practical sense. The amount of conducted tests up to this week was negligible and in a literal sense statistically insignificant. 

 

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

Sure, it would have been nice if the CDC had been able to manufacture accurate test kits from the start, but it's too late to whine about that now.

No it's not too late to whine about that now and it is not whining. In fact they didn't have to manufacture them. They were literally offered tests by the WHO, one that pretty much all other countries are using. One that has been developed within a week. This was more than a month before the first case in the US was known. There is literally no benevolent reason one can come up with why the US declined to use this test and consequently no reason why we are so behind in testing capacity. 

 

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

Perhaps we can blame the PRESIDENT for the poor procedures used to make those kits, and the slow roll-out of good test kits?  Make all this HIS fault

That is literally how political responsibility and accountability works! He is the head of state, the head of the US government, so when said government fails, that is on him. That is literally what he signed up for. The CDC is part of the executive branch, his branch of which he is in charge. They chose, under his leadership, to not use an available test but instead choose to make one themselves and did so poorly. By definition of his job it is his fault and he holds all responsibility and accountability. If he can't handle that, he choose the wrong job. 

 

Additionally, he likes to take credit for pretty much anything under the sun and his followers love giving him credit for whatever they can. That's a two way street. You can't deflect and blame others when stuff goes wrong but claim all the good is your doing. Currently he's blaming Obama (which is ridiculous, even if something was structurally wrong you had 4 years to fix it) and the CDC (his own agency for which he himself is responsible). 

 

He likes to act like he's such a good businessman, well if this was a corporation and he was a CEO he would've been fired 5 times over. Hell, in pretty any parliamentarian democracy his cabinet would've fallen 10 times over and new elections were written out. 

 

But it's unfair to say it's his fault that testing been ridiculously lagging behind?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

naturally ignoring the fact that no one is actually containing this. Trump is basically as successful as anyone else.

That's nonsense. China is actually recovering as we speak and Trump actively committed actions that made things worse. Defunding, disbanding the White House National Security Council's entire global health security unit, refusing test kits, refusing to hear advisors and the list goes on and on. Some of these actions were allegedly to not disturb his re-election chances. Not to mention that the argument 'We're on par with the rest' doesn't forgive incompetent and borderline malicious handling of the POTUS. It's staggering to me how the same people that will jump upon any opportunity to patriotically exclaim the US is the best in the world, will gladly say that it's ok to be middle of the road if it allows them to not have to be critical of Trump. Not to mention it's just another flavour of whataboutism. 

 

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

In February 2018, over 4,000 people were dying from H1N1/H3N2 flu strains every WEEK, just in the US.  959,000 people hospitalized, and 61,099 deaths in 5 months.  

Oh so you're saying we should've know he wouldn't be able to deal with this competently?  

 

On a serious note, a lot of the issues in that year are attributable to Hurricane Maria in PR and how that disaster was subsequently handled given that many needed medical supplies were manufactured there and a more systemic issue with the affordability of healthcare in the US and the fact that the vaccine that would've been effective was unaffordable for a good chunk of the population. There's more on that in this article and to be found on the inter webs: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/01/the-perfect-storm-behind-this-years-nasty-flu-season/550469/

 

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

The answers is because they HAD the test kits on hand to do the testing.  Where did those test kits come from?

So? The US was welcome to use the WHO's test kits. Again, a test that was available a month before the first case in the US was known.

 

 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

South Korea is about the size of Florida, with a population more than double the state.  Let's keep the numbers in perspective here.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

37 minutes ago, Poseidon1212 said:

That's nonsense. China is actually recovering as we speak and Trump actively committed actions that made things worse. Defunding, disbanding the White House National Security Council's entire global health security unit, refusing test kits, refusing to hear advisors and the list goes on and on. Some of these actions were allegedly to not disturb his re-election chances. Not to mention that the argument 'We're on par with the rest' doesn't forgive incompetent and borderline malicious handling of the POTUS. It's staggering to me how the same people that will jump upon any opportunity to patriotically exclaim the US is the best in the world, will gladly say that it's ok to be middle of the road if it allows them to not have to be critical of Trump. Not to mention it's just another flavour of whataboutism. 

1. China is where the outbreak occurred. Their lack of containment is what caused the Wuhan virus to spread. Praising China, bashing Trump. TDS.

2. The NSC issue surrounded people inside there working to undermine the President re:their policy differences, something no other President in recent memory has had to deal with. I'd clean house too. NSC staffers don't dictate a President's re-election chances, but they do help facilitate pointless impeachment charades. Red herring.

3. There was no patriotic "best in the world" rant from me, this is simply a conjured straw man in lieu of rationality. 

4. Whataboutism not used either. There is no country that has been able to prevent the spread of this virus. Furthermore, the only thing the US could've done to seriously prevent the spread (and even that is still questionable) would be to lock down the entire country using draconian emergency powers TDS sufferers would've complained about anyways. 

 

Also, just thought I'd say.. 4 more years.

[DELETEME1234 208]

2 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

1. China is where the outbreak occurred. Their lack of containment is what caused the Wuhan virus to spread. Praising China, bashing Trump. TDS.

2. The NSC issue surrounded people inside there working to undermine the President re:their policy differences, something no other President in recent memory has had to deal with. I'd clean house too. NSC staffers don't dictate a President's re-election chances, but they do help facilitate pointless impeachment charades. Red herring.

3. There was no patriotic "best in the world" rant from me, this is simply a conjured straw man in lieu of rationality. 

4. Whataboutism not used either. There is no country that has been able to prevent the spread of this virus. Furthermore, the only thing the US could've done to seriously prevent the spread (and even that is still questionable) would be to lock down the entire country using draconian emergency powers TDS sufferers would've complained about anyways. 

 

Also, just thought I'd say.. 4 more years.

1. Yet they have it better under control now than we do

2. Doesn't explain why he didn't appoint new people

3. Doesn't explain why you seem to be ok with mediocracy or the fact that his actions actively prevented our situation to be better

4. Not true, the US could've actually used the tests available to be able to better detect people who are carrying the virus and quarantine them

 

Just 4? I pegged you for a ride or die kinda guy. 

[DELETEME1234 208]

25 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

South Korea is about the size of Florida, with a population more than double the state.  Let's keep the numbers in perspective here.

SK also has way less labs, medical facilities and budget. But ok, I'll settle for half of the population of FL being tested. Think we can manage that?

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

9 minutes ago, Poseidon1212 said:

1. Yet they have it better under control now than we do

2. Doesn't explain why he didn't appoint new people

3. Doesn't explain why you seem to be ok with mediocracy or the fact that his actions actively prevented our situation to be better

4. Not true, the US could've actually used the tests available to be able to better detect people who are carrying the virus and quarantine them

 

Just 4? I pegged you for a ride or die kinda guy. 

1. No they don't. While they have more control over their citizens freedoms, they had no control over the virus, and it was at some point going to be spreading less anyways. Praising their containment when they are the source of the problem is just funny, but not surprising.

2. He just got rid of a bunch of NSC staff and had been vetting replacements, nominating some already, a process understandably slowed down by the fact that he had people actively working to undermine his job.

3. I'm not okay with it, but it's not something that's ever been different. I'm just less selectively reactive to it. I didn't act this way under Obama either, nor was I this up in arms about the CDC, they've always been garbage, and people on both sides have interestingly unrealistic expectations of this bureau. 

4. No, so long as the US was allowing foreign travel, so long as the general public are dumb and don't self-isolate even when coming back from a region that has this outbreak, people were going to get in. There was no prevention. Pure fantasy.