Cultural Differences

[russ 1]

Maybe I should be happy that I'm short, overweight and have zits all over my face. After all I'm sure that no man has ever liked me because of my looks.

I am also afraid you are very wrong about that...

I'll support that. You're wrong. A man can find something attractive in every woman. Even if you don't see it, he will!!! Don't kid yourself, no matter what you think you look like, your man is physically attracted to your looks. We're hard-wired to do that, you know.

...

To me, that's a horrible attitude, and there's no way I would have a serious relationship with someone that thought that way. But, I can see, it's not so much that this is how

I think most of us agree that it is not a healthy attitude.

While most of us would view it as a weakness of Miss Holly Golightly, it was a weakness of Paul Varjak's character as well...

[CityCat 0]

Maybe I should be happy that I'm short, overweight and have zits all over my face. After all I'm sure that no man has ever liked me because of my looks.

I am also afraid you are very wrong about that...

I'll support that. You're wrong. A man can find something attractive in every woman. Even if you don't see it, he will!!! Don't kid yourself, no matter what you think you look like, your man is physically attracted to your looks. We're hard-wired to do that, you know.

Thank you, Slim. Human beings are the most sensual, sexual animals on the planet, both men and women. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to breed!

As for the rest of the stuff, sure, I can see why my wife or other women do what they do. I'm not knocking it one bit. (If I could, I'd do it too!..... for a while, at least.) I'm just saying it's not going to fly here now, and it's not going to fly in our relationship. Like noone stated above, a sugar-daddy is great, but he's not a loving husband.

My wife wasn't like that when we met. She was too young and inexperienced to be "trained" into thinking that way. After six years of it while we were apart.... it comes as second nature now. An "expectation" if you will. I've met plenty of girls like this, and they don't appeal to me at all. I was unaware she had become like this until she was here, and it really wasn't that bad until recently. Previously, she was the nice, innocent, shy young girl that I was dating back in 2000. Now, she's the woman that gets everything she wants because she's that attractive. Or, at least that's what's in her head.

That's a wrong attitude first of all 'cause no matter how beautiful you are there will always be "somebody younger, prettier and more hungry who will push you down the stairs" (quoting "Showgirls", though hated and panned by the critics it is considered a great movie by anyone who's ever touched the world of entertainment business, including myself).

She is being a good wife, and I believe it's because she knows it's a better deal in the long-term (whether that's emotionally or monetarily remains to be seen!) but it's so hard for her to give up this mentality that everyone should be kissing her @$$ because she's so attractive.

To me, that's a horrible attitude, and there's no way I would have a serious relationship with someone that thought that way. But, I can see, it's not so much that this is how she really feels, as it is what she's grown accustomed to. I think over time, she'll develop a more sensible (humble pie, anyone?) approach to interaction with, and expectations of, the men around her. Including me!

Oh, yeah, she will! Just give her time.

[Nancy2015 2]

I am afraid you've jumped to conclusions based on what I mentioned - I didn't try to say it was good or bad to be such a woman I was just stating that anthropologically it's possible to subtract such categories of ladies.

I didn't jump to conclusions, and I see your point, and I agree with you, but I still can feel bad about the fact that ladies like that exist

[CityCat 0]

I am afraid you've jumped to conclusions based on what I mentioned - I didn't try to say it was good or bad to be such a woman I was just stating that anthropologically it's possible to subtract such categories of ladies.

I didn't jump to conclusions, and I see your point, and I agree with you, but I still can feel bad about the fact that ladies like that exist

It seems to be inevitable. Tolerance to something you can't change is the key to safe mind...

[russ 1]

I didn't jump to conclusions, and I see your point, and I agree with you, but I still can feel bad about the fact that ladies like that exist

I think one reason that many of us like American, is that behaving like such a lady is much less necessary.

We were at a nightclub a few days ago. Mostly older Italian men. Many more, younger Russian women. We wondered why so many women were there, not speaking the same language. It was not the type of place most of them could afford. We asked the staff about the language issue: "They do understand, $100 -- All night."

It does exist, and I am not saying it is good or bad. When I'm a 70 year old fart, perhaps I'll be one of them. I strongly doubt it though.

When I lived in Holland, there were Eastern European women in windows on the street -- I did think that was bad.

[Blues Fairy 0]

She has explained to me at length that this is something normal in the Far East, that beautiful girls who respect themselves MUST be paid for their time.

Interesting.

I suspect such a "consumerist" approach to men is formed through interaction with more experienced women who have suffered a few disastrous relationships with losers or abusers and decided to compensate for the time lost. The concept of TIME WASTED is a very powerful thing. Very tempting, after 3 or 5 of your best years given to a loser or abuser, to start evaluating ALL men primarily from the point of their investing power. I myself had a couple of friends (not bad women at all) who would preach the same your wife has explained. Their reasoning: a woman's time is more valuable than man's, since we lose our "market value" so much faster than men. Therefore, we must be paid (metaphorically here) for our time. I have to agree that there is some truth to that, though I never have, or would, practice any kind of sponsored lifestyle unless it be a committed relationship. Even though the theme of "wasted time" is a very sensitive one for me, too.

[slim 1,514]

She has explained to me at length that this is something normal in the Far East, that beautiful girls who respect themselves MUST be paid for their time.

Interesting.

I suspect such a "consumerist" approach to men is formed through interaction with more experienced women who have suffered a few disastrous relationships with losers or abusers and decided to compensate for the time lost. The concept of TIME WASTED is a very powerful thing. Very tempting, after 3 or 5 of your best years given to a loser or abuser, to start evaluating ALL men primarily from the point of their investing power. I myself had a couple of friends (not bad women at all) who would preach the same your wife has explained. Their reasoning: a woman's time is more valuable than man's, since we lose our "market value" so much faster than men. Therefore, we must be paid (metaphorically here) for our time. I have to agree that there is some truth to that, though I never have, or would, practice any kind of sponsored lifestyle unless it be a committed relationship. Even though the theme of "wasted time" is a very sensitive one for me, too.

Definitely one way of looking at it, and an approach taken by certain women, sure.

My wife's was grown more out of her time spent in Asian countries where the Asian men would spend literally THOUSANDS of dollars nightly just to sit and talk with her and her coworkers at night clubs or bars. She returned to Russia with the knowledge that she could manipulate men with her looks into buying her anything she wanted and she proceeded to take full advantage of that.

Now that she's here and we're married, she can't do that anymore. Moreover, the hardest part for her is not only is that gone, but she can't get as much attention from me as she'd like becuase I'm working/sleeping all the time. So, all of her "man maniupulating" power has been effectively removed. It's there, but she can't use it, and it's very frustrating for her. That's where the issues come from. She has to remind me it's still there; Believe me I know! Everywhere we go guys nudge each other and say "hey buddy, check that chick out!" and just walking down the street, or through the grocery store, EVERYONE looks at her. I know she's attractive. She knows I know that. But the part that really pisses her off is the fact that I tell her that her attractiveness is not important to me. Sure, it's nice having a hot, sexy wife, but that's not what it's about. It's about our future together and it's about us being happy together as a husband and wife. She wants to hear "I'm the luckiest guy in the world because I have the hottest, sexiest wife." Sure I tell her that, but she doesn't hear me saying it. She hears "whatever, you're my wife, hot or not."

I guess it comes down to our approach on the attractiveness issue. She views it one way (top 3) I view it another. (Can't quantify it, can only say it plays into the "total package" aspect of a woman's character.)

Anyway.... I'm done b!t@#ing about my wife now. Time to move on to some other cultural differences. How about parents/kids, and the roles of grandparents in raising those children? What's acceptable in terms of visitation, life lessons, etc.? Any differences noted here, there? Anyone with kids?

[CityCat 0]

Anyway.... I'm done b!t@#ing about my wife now. Time to move on to some other cultural differences. How about parents/kids, and the roles of grandparents in raising those children? What's acceptable in terms of visitation, life lessons, etc.? Any differences noted here, there? Anyone with kids?

My parents love my husband but they haven't visited once in two years.

What life lessons can there be if they don't speak the language?

So basically parents on both sides of our family don't interfere (his live far away too) - no difference here.

As far as I know when children are born in such families they automatically become bilingual - speaking Russian with mom at home and English with dad and at school. It just happens like this almost effortlessly.

[Satellite 1]

As far as I know when children are born in such families they automatically become bilingual - speaking Russian with mom at home and English with dad and at school. It just happens like this almost effortlessly.

Far from it. It will take a lot of effort to expose the child to Russian only before he or she reaches the age of 5. Otherwise the child will understand everything in Russian but speak with an accent in Russian or not at all. And this happens in homes where both the parents speak Russian! I am very familiar with such families. The best tip is no exposure to English until about age 5. This will include efforts like buying and reading Russian children's books, movies, and even sending them to ethnic preschool / nursery school. Options available in large Russian community cities. Otherwise good luck!

[russ 1]

Far from it. It will take a lot of effort to expose the child to Russian only before he or she reaches the age of 5. Otherwise the child will understand everything in Russian but speak with an accent in Russian or not at all. And this happens in homes where both the parents speak Russian! I am very familiar with such families. The best tip is no exposure to English until about age 5. This will include efforts like buying and reading Russian children's books, movies, and even sending them to ethnic preschool / nursery school. Options available in large Russian community cities. Otherwise good luck!

My experience in Europe is similar. Much easier for kids to learn the local language, as they hear more of it. I know Americans in Europe with adult children, where their kids speak Italian and French better than English. And they spoke English at home.

The problem in the states is that not speaking any English at 5 years makes it very difficult to keep up in school. Both parents speaking the same foreign language seems to be most effective, but at some point, English becomes more important.

My European friends suggest it is best to speak 3 languages at home - one foreign language per parent, plus both speak the local language.

All this reminds me of a joke.

Someone who speaks three languages is called multilingual.

And someone who speaks two languages is called bilingual.

But what do you call someone who speaks but one language?

American.

[Milenka 0]

That joke is one of those, sad, but true things, about America, foreign languages are just not important. I was lucky since I got to live in Russia until I was 6, then we moved, so before that I didn't speak English at all. Then once we moved here and I started school, my parents sent me to a hebrew school on wednesdays and sundays after regular school, I can't say I really learned that much Hebrew there, though...My grandma still doesn't speak more than a few words of English though, and spends time in the park with her Russian friends, and goes to stores in LA where they speak Russian, etc...

I would agree that sending them to an "Ethnic" kindergarten would be the best thing if you are living in America. It's a hard thing, and if they are going to be fluent it definitely takes a lot of work and effort...

[CityCat 0]

As far as I know when children are born in such families they automatically become bilingual - speaking Russian with mom at home and English with dad and at school. It just happens like this almost effortlessly.

Far from it. It will take a lot of effort to expose the child to Russian only before he or she reaches the age of 5. Otherwise the child will understand everything in Russian but speak with an accent in Russian or not at all. And this happens in homes where both the parents speak Russian! I am very familiar with such families. The best tip is no exposure to English until about age 5. This will include efforts like buying and reading Russian children's books, movies, and even sending them to ethnic preschool / nursery school. Options available in large Russian community cities. Otherwise good luck!

I have a great example right in front of my eyes, that proves otherwise - both parents Russian, Russian is spoken at home, the boy is 3 and half, goes to American kindergarten, speaks both Russian and English fluent enough to be understood and to understand when representatives of both cultures try to interact with him. No special effort made.

[russ 1]

I would agree that sending them to an "Ethnic" kindergarten would be the best thing if you are living in America. It's a hard thing, and if they are going to be fluent it definitely takes a lot of work and effort...

In my family, Finnish and Swedish ended with my grandmother. Though the Finnish neighborhoods stayed together for a long time (my Great grandfather lived on Suomi street 100+ years ago, a few blocks from where I grew up), the language disappeared after a while.

[slim 1,514]

Great joke, Russ!

I know every time I've been overseas, and last night at work too, (there are a few African fellas working with me now) the foreigners are all astonished that Americans can only speak one language. It's true, so that's a good joke to tell. Sad thing is, if you tell it to "regular" Americans, they aren't going to get it.

The language/children issue is one I've seen a lot of on military bases where the kids have one parent from the host country and one American service member as the other parent. They usually speak both languages relatively well, but definitely are dominated by English, with the other language, as Satellite pointed out, understood fairly well, but not spoken at the same level. It's very easy for children to understand languages, and if mom or dad are yelling at them (in any language!) they're going to do what needs doing. That's why they can understand. However, when they leave the house, they're bombarded with English only, and that starts to take over. When immersed in a language, or even simply a dialect, for so long humans naturally "adapt" to the new language. Kids adapt faster/easier/far better than adults, but adults do it too. Just look at Madonna. She speaks English English now. And, I'd be willing to bet you speak a little differently around/with your S/O than you do your coworkers. Your English has "adapted" to become like their "English" just a bit.

OK.... something else I just noticed today. (Well, I noticed a long time ago, but figured I'd share today.) When my wife opens stuff, she rips through the packages or doesn't open them (or close them) in the correct manner, usually renderring them useless as storage containers. For instance; we all know the cereal box tops have the little tabs on them to keep them closed once they're open. Well, she opens them by ripping the whole top off the box, or tearing it down the side or at the corner, etc. If we get a resealable bag of candy or meat or soemthing of that nature, she'll rip through the bag, completely disregarding the "stay fresh seal." Is my wife special? Or is it because there are smaller quantities and less leftovers (and no standard of "covering" food) in Russia that she's not used to doing this sort of thing? Or, is she just messing with me?

And, putting meat in a shopping bag (like the ones your groceries come in) before freezing instead of using freezer paper or a ziplock. Sure, I guess it works, but something about it just doesn't seem all that clean to me. But, I ate the meat in Korea, and it just sat in the sun all day. I guess a "morozelnik packet" is the better option!

[Nancy2015 2]

Or is it because there are smaller quantities and less leftovers (and no standard of "covering" food) in Russia that she's not used to doing this sort of thing? Or, is she just messing with me?

It's nothing cultural, it's just individual. It's the first time I hear about no standard of covering food