Religious Vent...I'm so confused and need to talk about it.

[chri'stina 190]

Jesus was a Jewish teacher of his time and stated that many times...it was Paul, who changed the thinking on jesus, against the wishes of Peter and others.

That is opinion, not fact though. I think Peter and Paul had the same beliefs concerning Jesus.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Jesus was a Jewish teacher of his time and stated that many times...it was Paul, who changed the thinking on jesus, against the wishes of Peter and others.

That is opinion, not fact though. I think Peter and Paul had the same beliefs concerning Jesus.

This is the 'internet'. It's all opinion. You get the memo?

[chri'stina 190]

Jesus was a Jewish teacher of his time and stated that many times...it was Paul, who changed the thinking on jesus, against the wishes of Peter and others.

That is opinion, not fact though. I think Peter and Paul had the same beliefs concerning Jesus.

This is the 'internet'. It's all opinion. You get the memo?

Well in this thread I don't think there needs to be a debate about what Christians believe.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Jesus was a Jewish teacher of his time and stated that many times...it was Paul, who changed the thinking on jesus, against the wishes of Peter and others.

That is opinion, not fact though. I think Peter and Paul had the same beliefs concerning Jesus.

This is the 'internet'. It's all opinion. You get the memo?

Well in this thread I don't think there needs to be a debate about what Christians believe.

Lighten up.

[chri'stina 190]

The reason I said something concerning the "Jesus wasn't a church going man" because I think it can be misinterpreted. Technically, no he wasn't a church going man because he didn't walk into a building called a church.

But He gathered together with his believers, and that is what church is. If someone cannot find a church they feel comfortable in, I don't think they are doing something wrong by not going. You can have church without being in the church building. That's probably what you meant when you wrote that, but some people could read it the wrong way and not understand what you meant(if that is what you meant).

[Marilyn. 340]

I grew up going to church too.... for the most part they were small little churches but then we moved across Canada and we started going to this really big church.... I went to that Church for over 10 years... but I never felt like I fit in.. the church was full of rich people and I always felt like our family was looked down upon and/or pitied

I even taught Sunday school in that church for about 9 years and I was in the church choir for about 3 years....

but then I made the decision to stop teaching Sunday School at the end of that year, right before summer... and that last day I taught Sunday school was the last day I went to that church...

My parents had started to go to a different smaller church a few years before I quit and they did ask me to go to that church but I had no desire to go to church... I know my mom was really upset about that.... I told her that I would try and find a church once I moved to the US.... but I never did....

then last October, hubby and I decided to look for a church , we went to one but it reminded me to much of my old church so we never went again and didn't really try and find any other churches..

we did find a nice little church a few months back and we have gone to a few services... We really like the pastor's sermons but the only problem is that the church is full of mostly older couples... it would be nice to find a church where there were some more younger couples so we could have some friends out here....

I told my mom that we think we had found a church and she almost cried ... but now every time I talk to her on the phone she always asks if we have gone to church

sorry for the rambling, not sure if I made any sense...

[Cassie 8]

we did find a nice little church a few months back and we have gone to a few services... We really like the pastor's sermons but the only problem is that the church is full of mostly older couples... it would be nice to find a church where there were some more younger couples so we could have some friends out here....

Maybe if you start going there that would encourage other younger couples out there to go as well.... just a thought??

PS. You made perfect sense!

Edited June 15, 2007 by Cassie

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Thank you everyone for your responses...I'm sure I'll be reading them again before the end of the day...some excellent points here. For those of you thinking it's a relationship issue, I can see how you can get that *as opposed* to a religious issue; that said, my parents and I discuss nearly *everything* else and have a wonderful and very open relationship. They only live 4/5 miles away (for whoever suggested that I lie to them...no offense, but I wouldn't solve my problem that way) and we speak most days and see one another a couple of times a week. I reiterated the main point earlier though...and that is why I DO think it's a religious issue, not relationship related. If you thought, as a parent, that your daughter was going to h@ll if she wasn't following your religion, wouldn't you be very upset if she wasn't or was going somewhere else? That's what I'm getting at. I already said, as well, that I don't believe that mayself...that's really one of the only (and definitely the main) sticking points,,,and it makes my parents sound horribly pompous/whatever...but they're not like that at *all*. It's just how *they* were raised and what they were taught to believe. They do have verses in the Bible that back up what they think, but like anywhere else, it's really down to interpretation, some of it. *argh* I'll figure it out,but thanks for your responses...keep them coming as you wish...I'm really enjoying reading all of them...and I will respond to specifics later. I was up 3rd shift last night, so I've only just woken up today.... M.

[chri'stina 190]

With the issue of going out in pairs of 2, I can see how they could support that because Jesus sent out his disciples in two's in Mark 6:7-12. But then later in Mark 16 after they finished the initial send out, He again says to go out. Whether he still meant in pairs, I don't know.

I don't think there is anything wrong with going out in pairs.

The issue that I don't believe has any biblical backing is that that church is the only saved church(which is the same issue you are having with it). Especially when Jesus says clearly how to be saved through out the Gospel like in John 3:16. I think that is the part that you can investigate more by reading the whole New Testament. You can also see how the godly people operated during that time, and see if it aligns with the 2x2 teachings or not. I don't think every time someone talked about Jesus in the New Testament they were in pairs, sometimes there were more than 2 preaching at a time, sometimes only one.

Your parents may be mad or disappointed if you tell them you don't believe it and want to go to a different church. But if they have been raised that way, you may even show them something that they never considered before. You never know.

My husband grew up Hindu, and then years ago became a Christian, as you already know. Him telling his family about it was not easy. But he brought up points to them that they never considered, and explained why he really believes this now. They may not agree with everything he believes, but he has got them to at least think about their own beliefs too to see if they are just going along with what they have always been told, or searching out what is the truth in their lives.

I hope your parents will understand that the common bond you share with them is the belief of Jesus and Him being savior, and won't get stuck on which church you go to. I will be praying for you and the situation to go smoothly!

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I've never been a Christian, nor had the inclination to become one, I have to admit. But since Jesus was a Jew, stayed a Jew, did not denounce Judaism nor create a new religion by intent, but simply meant to lead people to God and away from worldly desires, how worshipping him as God, Himself, breaking away from Judaism instead of reforming it, becoming Christians, and attending churches instead of synagogues became the result of what he taught is beyond me. Sorry, I just had to make that observation,which is not meant as a put down. It just seems strange to me.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Green-eyed girl

[MichelleandCraig 1]

Thanks, Christina, I really appreciate that.

One thing I do know with absolute certainty though (and I know it's difficult to say anything with certainty...but are sure as I could possibly be then) is that my parents will *not* be swayed. I actually misspoke a bit..my Dad was raised in it; his dad was a minister in it before a while before he left and got married (they go out unmarried, etc.) and was very strict in it. He and my mom married when she was 16, but she had not been raised in it. They have both been in it over 50 years now and are *very* dedicated...and I know I won't be changing their opinions on anything that they believe. (Hehe..I know you just said "maybe," and all, but I just know them very well in that respect!)

...and you're right. I have the same main issue with it that you're talking about, along with a few other things. Although a lot of it is, admittedly, confusing to me. In my parent's church, women minister as well. I don't think there is anything wrong with that in *any* church, but many relgions do beieve that that's wrong...because of what it says about women remaining silent in the church. Craig has mentioned that to me, wondering about it...not that he has issue with it, but wondering what,exactly, that passage meant.

I would really like to thank everyone, especially those I know who are *not* Christians, for making really nice contributions and keeping this about what it's about instead of us all trashing one another's beliefs...it's been really great so far!

[Cassie 8]

...and you're right. I have the same main issue with it that you're talking about, along with a few other things. Although a lot of it is, admittedly, confusing to me. In my parent's church, women minister as well. I don't think there is anything wrong with that in *any* church, but many relgions do beieve that that's wrong...because of what it says about women remaining silent in the church. Craig has mentioned that to me, wondering about it...not that he has issue with it, but wondering what,exactly, that passage meant.

I did some research on this very topic, after having a discussion with a roommate whose church followed this very strictly. From what I can remember (this was 10 years ago when I looked into this, sorry!), apparently there were a group of women who would deliberately disrupt worship in the church, hence the passage about being quiet, so it was about historical context. I'll have to go looking and see if I can find my notes, so I can be more specific (if you want! )

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I've never been a Christian, nor had the inclination to become one, I have to admit. But since Jesus was a Jew, stayed a Jew, did not denounce Judaism nor create a new religion by intent, but simply meant to lead people to God and away from worldly desires, how worshipping him as God, Himself, breaking away from Judaism instead of reforming it, becoming Christians, and attending churches instead of synagogues became the result of what he taught is beyond me. Sorry, I just had to make that observation,which is not meant as a put down. It just seems strange to me.

The Jews believe in the concept of a Messiah - they just don't happen to believe that this man (Jesus) was it. Christianity isn't a denouncement of Judaism, but a fulfillment of that belief, at least in the mind of its followers. You don't have to be a Christian to understand that logic.

[Ta Ta 1]

I've never been a Christian, nor had the inclination to become one, I have to admit. But since Jesus was a Jew, stayed a Jew, did not denounce Judaism nor create a new religion by intent, but simply meant to lead people to God and away from worldly desires, how worshipping him as God, Himself, breaking away from Judaism instead of reforming it, becoming Christians, and attending churches instead of synagogues became the result of what he taught is beyond me. Sorry, I just had to make that observation,which is not meant as a put down. It just seems strange to me.

The Jews believe in the concept of a Messiah - they just don't happen to believe that this man (Jesus) was it. Christianity isn't a denouncement of Judaism, but a fulfillment of that belief, at least in the mind of its followers. You don't have to be a Christian to understand that logic.

Exactly.

[Ta Ta 1]

About the woman being quiet in the church, a woman is allowed to preach but not to disrupt the service and she is always in submission to her husband.

When we have a woman preaching in our church she will acknowledge her husband and state her submission to him.

About the core issue with not wanting your parents to feel bad because in their eyes you are going to hell I want to say this.

My father was an atheist, my mother did not go to church, just believed but

I never saw her pray or read the Bible.

I always knew there was a God even as a child and prayed.

I was saved and raised my kids in the church.

My grown children are now no longer going to church.

This is how I suggest parents should deal with it :

I have a strong believe that all will be well with my children and I excercise that faith.

I am not burdened down in fear that they won't make it to heaven, no I have faith that God will finish the work He has began and I have peace.

Maybe this is the way your parents will look at it. No one should condem someone

to hell .....it is not up to us to judge that.

You are trying to lift the burden off your parents but you can't do it, it will be up to them to come to terms with it in prayer and faith and spiritual growth.

Let God handle that.

May I add that I am a fundamentalist, a Pentecostal and proud of it for 38 years now.