Days Absent from United States for My N-400

[MagicRay 3]

Just had my Naturalization interview on Dec 4, 2019. Obtained my permanent resident January 21, 2014, submitted my N-400 application January 30 2019.  During the interview the officer said I was absent 8 days over the the 2 1/2 years but still congratulated me and sent me off on my way.  Just received a letter "Notice of Indent to deny".  I took a few trips back to Canada during the past 5 years nothing more than 6 months.  But on one of the trips they are trying to combine the trips and make it longer than 6 months. It's clear on my i-94 travel history that I came back to the US for 14 days and went back to Canada for 3 more weeks and came back again to the US.

 

Anyhow another point they make on the letter is that after my N-400 application, I should have stated my travels for 2019 ( I had about 40 days absent), the interviewer never asked such questions and I didn't think from my N400 application submission to the time of my interview counted towards being absent, then this would mean almost going back almost 6years.  I think they are doing this or can do this because they showed in one my trips that I did not continuously reside in the US (one of the trips being longer than 6 months)

 

Q 1:

The questions here is can they go back and count the absent days from the interview date to the date of my N400 application submission minus 5 years (Jan 30, 2014). If so then how can they calculated all the days absent to let's say 920 days but that would mean I was present about 1195 days? 

 

Q 2:

In regards with proof, I have all my travel boarding passes and emails, I also have credit card statements that I was shopping etc during the period they are trying to combine into a 6 month period.  Would photo copies of these be proof for them or should I contact the air line and get something else from them?

 

Q 3:

What else do you guys see here that they are trying to do, to deny me Naturalization that I cannot see, which I should prove?

 

Thanks 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by MagicRay

[xyz12345 260]

1 hour ago, MagicRay said:

Just had my Naturalization interview on Dec 4, 2019. Obtained my permanent resident January 21, 2014, submitted my N-400 application January 30 2019.  During the interview the officer said I was absent 8 days over the the 2 1/2 years but still congratulated me and sent me off on my way.  Just received a letter "Notice of Indent to deny".  I took a few trips back to Canada during the past 5 years nothing more than 6 months.  But on one of the trips they are trying to combine the trips and make it longer than 6 months. It's clear on my i-94 travel history that I came back to the US for 14 days and went back to Canada for 3 more weeks and came back again to the US.

 

Anyhow another point they make on the letter is that after my N-400 application, I should have stated my travels for 2019 ( I had about 40 days absent), the interviewer never asked such questions and I didn't think from my N400 application submission to the time of my interview counted towards being absent, then this would mean almost going back almost 6years.  I think they are doing this or can do this because they showed in one my trips that I did not continuously reside in the US (one of the trips being longer than 6 months)

 

Q 1:

The questions here is can they go back and count the absent days from the interview date to the date of my N400 application submission minus 5 years (Jan 30, 2014). If so then how can they calculated all the days absent to let's say 920 days but that would mean I was present about 1195 days? 

 

Q 2:

In regards with proof, I have all my travel boarding passes and emails, I also have credit card statements that I was shopping etc during the period they are trying to combine into a 6 month period.  Would photo copies of these be proof for them or should I contact the air line and get something else from them?

 

Q 3:

What else do you guys see here that they are trying to do, to deny me Naturalization that I cannot see, which I should prove?

 

Thanks 

 

 

 International trips done after N-400 submission are still counted towards the physical presence and continuous residence requirements. During the interview, you have to report major changes in your application (since submission) even if not asked.

 

In your case, it seems like the problem is the physical presence test. It is still a '5 years prior' requirement except that the 'goal post' had been moved from '5 years prior to your N-400 submission date' to '5 years prior to interview'. The time between submission and interview is still critical. Physical presence is just about the sum of either all presences or absences in the US. They don't have to be continuous 6 months. If you were absent for more than 2.5 years within a 5 year period prior to interview, then they can deny you.

 

Sorry, but I think USCIS might be correct. this is just my personal opinion though. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by xyz12345

[Going through 5,671]

It would be helpful for members to further clarify the travel time calculation if you were to post all entry/exit dates over the past 5 years. Without knowing the actual dates/time outside the US, it's hard for anyone to say whether USCIS is correct or not in their denial re: physical presence.

 

It's not the IO's job to ask if you've traveled abroad inbetween N400 filing and interview....it's something to be disclosed, whether they ask or not.

 

 

[MagicRay 3]

55 minutes ago, Going through said:

It would be helpful for members to further clarify the travel time calculation if you were to post all entry/exit dates over the past 5 years. Without knowing the actual dates/time outside the US, it's hard for anyone to say whether USCIS is correct or not in their denial re: physical presence.

 

It's not the IO's job to ask if you've traveled abroad inbetween N400 filing and interview....it's something to be disclosed, whether they ask or not.

 

 

Days Absent Below:

After My N400 Submission            
6-27-19    07-19-19    21    
4-23-19    05-05-19    12    
2-21-19    03-02-19    8    
                       Total    41    

Before My N400 Submission            
8-14-18    09-06-18    22    
6-2-18    06-25-18    22    
4-6-18    05-15-18    38    
2-3-18    02-13-18    9    
1-2-18    01-03-18    0    
8-4-17    08-18-17    13    
6-23-17    06-28-17    4    
2-25-17    03-02-17    4    
1-21-17    02-08-17    17    They are trying to combine this trip to one
7-20-16    12-11-16    143    from July 20, 2016 to Jan 21, 2017 making it 185 days
1-19-16    07-01-16    163    
12-11-15    12-21-15    9    
4-9-15    10-01-15    174    
11-8-14    02-19-15    102    
10-2-14    10-22-14    19    
3-16-14    08-27-14    163    
1-29-14    01-31-14    1    
                       Total    903   

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by MagicRay

[MagicRay 3]

1 hour ago, xyz12345 said:

 

 International trips done after N-400 submission are still counted towards the physical presence and continuous residence requirements. During the interview, you have to report major changes in your application (since submission) even if not asked.

 

In your case, it seems like the problem is the physical presence test. It is still a '5 years prior' requirement except that the 'goal post' had been moved from '5 years prior to your N-400 submission date' to '5 years prior to interview'. The time between submission and interview is still critical. Physical presence is just about the sum of either all presences or absences in the US. They don't have to be continuous 6 months. If you were absent for more than 2.5 years within a 5 year period prior to interview, then they can deny you.

 

Sorry, but I think USCIS might be correct. this is just my personal opinion though. Hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply.  I would have thought the same but as you can see they listed all the dates I was absent from the start of 2014 till my interview date.  If they moved the goal post than they wouldn't have counted the 2014 year. BTW I listed the dates above. They included the same exact dates except for the July 20 2016 to Jan 21, 2017 (making it a one long trip of 185 days).  They added all the numbers and said I was "missing 969 days during the statutory period".

 

Then further in the letter stating "you must been physically present in the US for at least one half of the 5 years statutory period to be eligible for naturalization. One half of the 5 year statutory period is 913 days.  You were not physically present in the US for the required number days before filing you app.."

 

I hope this helps...

Edited February 24, 2020 by MagicRay

[JulianaSteve 25]

Can I ask you why you stayed such a long time outside of the country? 

Did you had a job in the moment you stayed so long out? Like some kind you could work online?

 

Is just untypical to me if you are living in a country and be out so much time if you have a life here. In 2014 you spent just 80 days in the US and 285 days out. This represents 78% out.

In 2016 was less than that! Looks like too much for somebody who claims be LIVING in the US. If you have a life here, what was the purpose to be so much time out?

 

What kind of visa did you used to live here? K1?F3/CR1?

 

They are looking for check it if you lived here or not for the time you are telling.  Travel that much makes they maybe think you was living more there than here.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by JulianaSteve

[Going through 5,671]

5 hours ago, MagicRay said:

Thanks for your reply.  I would have thought the same but as you can see they listed all the dates I was absent from the start of 2014 till my interview date.  If they moved the goal post than they wouldn't have counted the 2014 year. BTW I listed the dates above. They included the same exact dates except for the July 20 2016 to Jan 21, 2017 (making it a one long trip of 185 days).  They added all the numbers and said I was "missing 969 days during the statutory period".

They didn't "move the goal post"---they included the travel you didn't disclose at the interview.

Even without "making it one long trip of 185 days" , the numbers you presented still would add up the same.

 

5 hours ago, MagicRay said:

Then further in the letter stating "you must been physically present in the US for at least one half of the 5 years statutory period to be eligible for naturalization. One half of the 5 year statutory period is 913 days.

From your totals you stated:

 

Days Absent Below:

After My N400 Submission  

Total    41    

 

 

Days Absent Below:

Before My N400 Submission  

Total    903  

 

903 + 41 = 944 days.

 

It also appears from your dates of travel that you did several "touch-down visits" to the US...the IO likely assumed you were using the GC as a glorified tourist visa.

 

Your option is to appeal their decision if you believe it was incorrectly calculated or reapply when you are eligible to do so....and try to spend more time within the US when doing either.  

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Going through

[Going through 5,671]

I'm not sure physical presence was the entire issue during your interview---I'm thinking the question of continuous residence was also in the IO's mind, given  the frequency of your absences (even frequent multiple trips of less than 6 months can be brought into question in determining continuous residence according to USCIS's policy manual).  The longer trips, of course, didn't necessarily help in that matter either.

[African Zealot 1,455]

1 hour ago, Going through said:

Your option is to appeal their decision if you believe it was incorrectly calculated or reapply when you are eligible to do so....and try to spend more time within the US when doing either.  

 

You can try to appeal although it’s probably a waste of time. Personally I would say you were not living in the USA. Even if you abided by the letter of the law (which is debatable, I didn’t bother counting), you clearly were violating the spirit of the residency requirement.

 

You would probably have to start your qualification period after those long trips in 2017.

 

Good luck

Edited February 24, 2020 by Ray.Bonaquist

[gregcrs2 1,778]

2 hours ago, Going through said:

I'm not sure physical presence was the entire issue during your interview---I'm thinking the question of continuous residence was also in the IO's mind, given  the frequency of your absences (even frequent multiple trips of less than 6 months can be brought into question in determining continuous residence according to USCIS's policy manual).  The longer trips, of course, didn't necessarily help in that matter either.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ray.Bonaquist said:

You can try to appeal although it’s probably a waste of time. Personally I would say you were not living in the USA. Even if you abided by the letter of the law (which is debatable, I didn’t bother counting), you clearly were violating the spirit of the residency requirement.

 

You would probably have to start your qualification period after those long trips in 2017.

 

Good luck

 

I calculated the number of days outside the USA by years.  It creates doubt if OP was actually residing in the US from 2014 - 2016 as OP was outside the country more than inside the country.  I have to agree with the above quotes.  

Days absent

2014    236 days

2015    232 days

2016   306 days

2017   38 days

2018   91 days

2019    41 days

[xyz12345 260]

3 hours ago, Going through said:

They didn't "move the goal post"---they included the travel you didn't disclose at the interview.

 

This would make more sense because if they just moved the 5-yr window, then the OP would have passed the physical presence test.

 

2016 is problematic since OP stayed outside the US for almost 11 months with only a 19-day break.

 

OP, just wait for the Denial Letter and see what they say. If it is just because you've exceeded 913 days absences, then you can re-apply more quickly than it is a continuous residence issue.

 

If it's a continuous residence issue also, then can OP can apply 4 years+1 day which is July 2, 2020?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by xyz12345

[cyclone27 710]

Begs the question why bother applying when you are even close to your the 50% threshold?  
 

It looks to most likely you were gaming the system.

[African Zealot 1,455]

From the USCIS website and their Policy Manual

 

Quote

An officer may also review whether an applicant with multiple absences of less than 6 months will be able to satisfy the continuous residence and physical presence requirements. In some cases, an applicant may not be able to establish that his or her principal actual dwelling place is in the United States or establish residence within the United States for the statutorily required period of time.

Although you didn’t stay out longer than six months, I am convinced this gives the interviewing officer the authority and justification to deny you based on your travel pattern.

 

https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-d-chapter-3

Edited February 24, 2020 by Ray.Bonaquist

[MagicRay 3]

Thank you all for responding.  I can see that question 3 was answered.  I understand it's to the discretion of the officer to decide at the end, so lets leave that to them - I'm not asking for judgment.  In regards gaming with the system, this is the "system" - which I followed.

 

Questions 1 and 2 still remain.  @xyz12345 tried answering question #1 if anyone else can chime in that would be great.  Also what constitutes as good proof? from question# 2

 

Thanks;

[Mike E 11,739]

Try this again in 2022. That way, Assuming you continue you 2017-2019 pattern of 3 months are so outside the USA, when you leave the USA between submitting your N-400 and the interview (and again between interview and oath) there will be no question about the math.  

 

Count your blessings that CBP never initiated proceedings to send  you to immigration court to strip you of your lawful permanent residence.