Bernie Sanders briefed by U.S. officials that Russia is trying to help his presidential campaign

[Dashinka 24,494]

I agree that the Russian government wants to sow political discord in the US.  Coming to the conclusion that they favored one candidate over the other is just opinion.  Heck, even with this thread, supposedly they want to help Bernie, and then we have another story where they supposedly favor Trump.  Logic says they would actually favor the one that will benefit their economy, I will give you a hint, it would be any of the Green New Deal Democrats currently running.  What could be more helpful to Russia, but to decimate the US in the energy economy.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Fact?  Please provide evidence that the Russian government changed any votes.  Beyond that, it was simply propaganda which you can get from any news organization.

I don't think they changed anything. I think they tried and they'll try again, I just don't believe they're capable of influencing much. That's why I think the whole Russia story is overblown. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

I am sure there are also plenty of other countries that actively try to influence our election, just I am sure we do other countries. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

This is conflating the arguments. You don't view a domestic discussion as valid, so you label it "propaganda". Russian engaged in several activities including propaganda, but that was not the sum of their activities. 

 

Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

"The Russian government interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election with the goal of harming the campaign of Hillary Clinton, boosting the candidacy of Donald Trump, and increasing political and social discord in the United States"

 

 

 

 

Thanks for finally answering a direct question (well, sort of).

 

So I will answer yours, though you directed it towards Bill this time.

 

No, I do not agree with it.  A more correct statement would be"

"Yet again, the Russian government has sought to interfere with a US election, as they have for countless decades before now.  Political and social discord is certainly one goal of these attempts."

 

I don't think Russia wants Trump as president. Hillary would have been better for them, as she was a known corrupt official who is willing to cut deals for money.  Trump, not so much.  At best, he was an unknown quantity, and certainly not hurting for money.

[Dashinka 24,494]

2 hours ago, Orangesapples said:

I don't think they changed anything. I think they tried and they'll try again, I just don't believe they're capable of influencing much. That's why I think the whole Russia story is overblown. 

Yes, the Russian Government tried, as I imagine many other countries have.  The whole point of propaganda is trying to shape opinion, and as I stated previously, there are many entities that do their best to shape political opinion.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

The little boy that cried wolf. So what. They didnt tamper with votes. Who in her did they influence. No one

[laylalex 7,284]

9 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

The little boy that cried wolf. So what. They didnt tamper with votes. Who in her did they influence. No one

We are not the entire universe of voters, and persuasion can be subtle and insidious, Nature Boy. A mind changed through lies is the same as a vote changed. 

 

If a citizen was minded to vote for Candidate A, but then heard and believed a lie about A that was very negative or about Candidate B that was very positive, choosing to vote for Candidate B over A is a vote changed through the lies of propaganda. What's worse is that people tend to think that they made up their minds on their own, when our thoughts are influenced by external factors like news, or social media, or talking with others. That's why questioning sources and trusting your gut that something doesn't pass the smell test are so important. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

28 minutes ago, laylalex said:

We are not the entire universe of voters, and persuasion can be subtle and insidious, Nature Boy. A mind changed through lies is the same as a vote changed. 

 

If a citizen was minded to vote for Candidate A, but then heard and believed a lie about A that was very negative or about Candidate B that was very positive, choosing to vote for Candidate B over A is a vote changed through the lies of propaganda. What's worse is that people tend to think that they made up their minds on their own, when our thoughts are influenced by external factors like news, or social media, or talking with others. That's why questioning sources and trusting your gut that something doesn't pass the smell test are so important. 

So you're opposed to foreign nations doing this to US elections.  Good on you.

 

But when the MSM does it, not only do you support it, but you send money to the candidates they are promoting.  Your dad must be so proud.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

2 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

So you're opposed to foreign nations doing this to US elections.  Good on you.

 

But when the MSM does it, not only do you support it, but you send money to the candidates they are promoting.  Your dad must be so proud.

That is just about the point I was about to make

[laylalex 7,284]

You guys are hilarious.  I've decided you're just trolling me at this point because honestly, there really is no other explanation.

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

10 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Let me understand this. 

I am saying that it is a fact :

 

"The Russian government interfered in the 2016 U.S. presidential election with the goal of harming the campaign of Hillary Clinton, boosting the candidacy of Donald Trump, and increasing political and social discord in the United States"

 

and you are saying what?

Yeah they ran FB ads and fake news groups on there and Twitter as well. That is about as far as they got (that we know of). But that is for three big reasons: 

 

1. Obama did it to Putin during one of his elections.

2. Putin hates Killary

3. This is in their playbook on subverting countries and dragging them into       chaos. 

 

There have already been reports of a fake FB page that was spreading misinformation here in NC. When they were messaged by the news for comment they responded in Russian. 

[Dashinka 24,494]

3 hours ago, laylalex said:

We are not the entire universe of voters, and persuasion can be subtle and insidious, Nature Boy. A mind changed through lies is the same as a vote changed. 

 

If a citizen was minded to vote for Candidate A, but then heard and believed a lie about A that was very negative or about Candidate B that was very positive, choosing to vote for Candidate B over A is a vote changed through the lies of propaganda. What's worse is that people tend to think that they made up their minds on their own, when our thoughts are influenced by external factors like news, or social media, or talking with others. That's why questioning sources and trusting your gut that something doesn't pass the smell test are so important. 

So how do you deal with propaganda, or lies that come from the media, or domestic sources?  Because I have news for you, propaganda does not originate always from the Russian government.

[laylalex 7,284]

You use the same tactics -- question the source and its reliability first, and ask yourself whether something doesn't seem right with the information. Is it out of line with what your expectations might be? What is the tenor of the language? Is it trying to manipulate your emotions? 

 

I never said it was limited to Russia. We can do bad all by ourselves.

[Dashinka 24,494]

9 hours ago, laylalex said:

You use the same tactics -- question the source and its reliability first, and ask yourself whether something doesn't seem right with the information. Is it out of line with what your expectations might be? What is the tenor of the language? Is it trying to manipulate your emotions? 

 

I never said it was limited to Russia. We can do bad all by ourselves.

Then why all the consternation regarding the Russian government?  The fix is to get informed.  Btw, I am not referring to you specifically, but the Left in general.

[Neonred 3,562]

15 hours ago, laylalex said:

We are not the entire universe of voters, and persuasion can be subtle and insidious, Nature Boy. A mind changed through lies is the same as a vote changed. 

 

If a citizen was minded to vote for Candidate A, but then heard and believed a lie about A that was very negative or about Candidate B that was very positive, choosing to vote for Candidate B over A is a vote changed through the lies of propaganda. What's worse is that people tend to think that they made up their minds on their own, when our thoughts are influenced by external factors like news, or social media, or talking with others. That's why questioning sources and trusting your gut that something doesn't pass the smell test are so important. 

That pretty much describes most political campaign ads, doesn't it?