This is frustrating!

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

Just noticed the part where you mentioned you want to be a lawyer.

 

Not sure how far along in your schooling you are, but any law school will tell you that advising against certain legal options, or failing to mention and explain them, because you are “frustrated” by them is a really great way to get embroiled in malpractice issues. You can be disbarred if the behavior reoccurs. 

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

1 hour ago, MorganandMichael said:

Just noticed the part where you mentioned you want to be a lawyer.

 

Not sure how far along in your schooling you are, but any law school will tell you that advising against certain legal options, or failing to mention and explain them, because you are “frustrated” by them is a really great way to get embroiled in malpractice issues. You can be disbarred if the behavior reoccurs. 

I’ll give an example, since this is apparently confusing?

 

A lot of people have a problem with weight loss surgery. They see it as taking the easy way out, getting results quickly instead of doing it the “old fashioned way”. Just diet and exercise to lose weight like everyone else! It’s hard, but going under the knife or stapling your stomach shut somehow devalues the work of those who lost weight on their own! (These are not my personal views).

 

Now you want to become a doctor! But you are someone who holds the opinion above. An obese patient comes to you with questions about the Lap Band or something. Do you ignore their questions? Do you give them misleading info about the complications of the surgery (fear monger) in an attempt to steer them away from it? Do you question their legitimacy and make accusations? Do you straight up refuse to treat them?
 

All of those things would be malpractice. 
 

Now your an immigration attorney. Someone pays you for a consultation, tells you they are here on a tourist visa and things got serious with their partner and they want to stay and adjust. You may have your own suspicions about their intent, but you’re and experienced legal professional and you know that they were already judged by a border official and admitted as a tourist. Do you ignore their questions? Do you give them misleading info about getting in trouble for “fraud”, having their AOS denied, etc (fear monger) in an attempt to steer them away from it? Do you question their legitimacy and make accusations? Do you straight up refuse to help them?

 

Also, malpractice.

Edited February 21, 2020 by MorganandMichael

[Cryssiekins 976]

1 hour ago, MorganandMichael said:

Like others mentioned before, by doing this it takes them OUT of the queue for CR1's, which are processed entirely differently than AOS. A stranger's decision to adjust from a tourist visa is not going to impact your wait time in any meaningful way. So anyone trying to make that argument can stop. They aren't "jumping the line" they are getting in a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ONE. And even possibly getting OUT of your line. 

 

That’s sort of missing the point of the frustration with this process.  By “jumping the line” they don’t mean for the process, they mean for the fact that someone who filed before them is still waiting separated from their loved one when the one who adjusted from a tourist visa is already with their spouse, so that makes the process that much easier.  That’s the part that hurts.

[SunflowerSweet 1,321]

7 minutes ago, Cryssiekins said:

That’s sort of missing the point of the frustration with this process.  By “jumping the line” they don’t mean for the process, they mean for the fact that someone who filed before them is still waiting separated from their loved one when the one who adjusted from a tourist visa is already with their spouse, so that makes the process that much easier.  That’s the part that hurts.

But does it *actually* hurt you in any way? Cuz again, it just reads as bitterness to me. Someone else had it easier than me and I’m mad about it. I get being away from your partner is hard, I did it too! But it’s not like it’s the fault of people who AOS from tourist visas. Advocating taking that option away because it makes you feel bad isn’t the most enlightened position to take, IMO. I’m not missing the point, I just think it’s a bad one.

 

There are a lot of people who will chime in and talk about how AOS wouldn’t have worked for them anyways because they had ties to clean up back home, or it would be “career suicide”. The are people who shout down the K-1 because of how inconvenient the AOS step is. It’s especially when I see those people complain that I get confused. If you wouldn’t have wanted to go that route anyway, why is it so personal when someone else does? 

Edited February 21, 2020 by MorganandMichael

[Unlockable 7,315]

I think the frustration comes more from it giving an advantage to a few and not the many. 

 

If you see those who are able to take advantage of being able to AOS from NIV, there aren't that many. But you have a ton of others who have to wait and be separated from their loved ones. I see the value in being able to AOS if there is a change of circumstances like a surprise pregnancy when visiting on a B1. But then there is the theory that if one did not have a B2 to begin with, the pregnancy may not have happened. Hence, no need for AOS.

[Cryssiekins 976]

25 minutes ago, MorganandMichael said:

But does it *actually* hurt you in any way? Cuz again, it just reads as bitterness to me. Someone else had it easier than me and I’m mad about it. I get being away from your partner is hard, I did it too! But it’s not like it’s the fault of people who AOS from tourist visas. Advocating taking that option away because it makes you feel bad isn’t the most enlightened position to take, IMO. I’m not missing the point, I just think it’s a bad one.

 

There are a lot of people who will chime in and talk about how AOS wouldn’t have worked for them anyways because they had ties to clean up back home, or it would be “career suicide”. The are people who shout down the K-1 because of how inconvenient the AOS step is. It’s especially when I see those people complain that I get confused. If you wouldn’t have wanted to go that route anyway, why is it so personal when someone else does? 

Me personally?  No, because I was extremely privileged and able to see my fiancé every other weekend.  A privilege and luxury not everyone has.  I agree with your point of view of not allowing other people’s decisions that don’t impact my life to make me bitter, however, I am a bleeding heart and I feel compassion. 
 

Like I said, I think the option should be used less-frequently than it is.  Why?  Because while it is currently a “right” it is not in keeping with the spirit of the legislation.  It, like most other things in life, could use some updating.

 

Also, people who AOS from tourist visas DO hurt people.  Again, not me personally, but their fellow citizens in their home country who then can’t even get to visit their partners while they wait out the process because of statistics that dictate people from x country are more likely than not to abuse the privilege.  
 

I’m not expecting you to change your view to mine, nor should you expect to change others to yours, but at the end of the day trying to say someone who is emotional is being petty isn’t helpful.  I’m sure everyone can understand that someone’s else’s circumstances doesn’t impact theirs, but it IS okay to be upset about how unfair things are.  
 

This process will never be fair to everyone.  It is what it is, but anyone still has the right to express their feelings.  If you can’t empathize with someone’s feelings, that’s fine you don’t have to, it just means you should walk away.  Chiming in that it’s petty is kicking someone when they’re already down.  It offers no value. 

[Dashinka 24,709]

11 minutes ago, Cryssiekins said:

Me personally?  No, because I was extremely privileged and able to see my fiancé every other weekend.  A privilege and luxury not everyone has.  I agree with your point of view of not allowing other people’s decisions that don’t impact my life to make me bitter, however, I am a bleeding heart and I feel compassion. 
 

Like I said, I think the option should be used less-frequently than it is.  Why?  Because while it is currently a “right” it is not in keeping with the spirit of the legislation.  It, like most other things in life, could use some updating.

 

Also, people who AOS from tourist visas DO hurt people.  Again, not me personally, but their fellow citizens in their home country who then can’t even get to visit their partners while they wait out the process because of statistics that dictate people from x country are more likely than not to abuse the privilege.  
 

I’m not expecting you to change your view to mine, nor should you expect to change others to yours, but at the end of the day trying to say someone who is emotional is being petty isn’t helpful.  I’m sure everyone can understand that someone’s else’s circumstances doesn’t impact theirs, but it IS okay to be upset about how unfair things are.  
 

This process will never be fair to everyone.  It is what it is, but anyone still has the right to express their feelings.  If you can’t empathize with someone’s feelings, that’s fine you don’t have to, it just means you should walk away.  Chiming in that it’s petty is kicking someone when they’re already down.  It offers no value. 

This is key.  How many stories do we see every day of folks being denied a B2.

[beloved_dingo 1,981]

I take issue only with those that purposely misuse their visas to stay and adjust, not every single person that adjusts status from a non-immigrant visa. Also, I think it's important to remember that often it is the USC's "fault" that this even happens - eg. a surprise proposal that leads to convincing the fiance to stay, get married, and adjust status. In that case, the USC is the person that had "intent" for their fiance to stay.

 

I just point that out because I feel like these conversations often center on the feeling that the non-immigrant probably planned to stay, but just hid their intent. Of course that does happen, but plenty of USC's are responsible for the "change in circumstances" as well. I wouldn't expect a non-immigrant who did NOT have immigrant intent upon entry to understand the nuances of AOSing on a tourist visa/ESTA etc or understand the other options available such as K-1 or CR-1. When my partner and I knew we wanted to get engaged/married, I (the USC) educated him about the options. I informed him about the issues with trying to adjust from an ESTA (which is what he used any time he visited me). We then made the right choice for us. But oftentimes the USC holds all the cards and the foreign partner is just going to follow the path that the USC deems as best.

Edited February 21, 2020 by beloved_dingo

[Nat&Amy 623]

2 hours ago, MorganandMichael said:

Expecting people in cases like that to say no to a perfectly legal way to stay together and start their family for NO other reason than you are bitter that YOU didn't have the same option as them... gross. Like I could never reconcile that with my conscience.

 

Perhaps you should revisit the idea that people who did not AoS didn't do it because they couldn't. Many of us K1 and CR1 holders could have stayed and chosen "the better path", as you mention, but chose not to. 

 

Also, I find it funny how you constantly try to come across as impartial and yet fail to recognize your own bias. So people who find the process unfair are "gross"? Criticizing the system for being what it is - flawed, slow, outdated - is the result of bitterness? Not a very good argument.

 

Will barring AoS as is today change anything in my timeline? Absolutely not. But here is an idea: it would make a difference for future applicants, because the world does not revolve around me and because certain couples that do have the immense privilege of having a visa to visit the US should not be allowed to abuse it while other couples wait, as they are supposed to, abroad, alone, with babies sometimes.

 

If hoping for a less nonsensical immigration system makes me "gross" and "bitter", then be it. 

[DeParaquedasBrasi 228]

Wasn't Trump trying to pass a law that punished B1/2 visa holders who came here just to get married and stayed?

Im pretty sure I read that somewhere.

[Nat&Amy 623]

Just now, DeParaquedasBrasi said:

Wasn't Trump trying to pass a law that punished B1/2 visa holders who came here just to get married and stayed?

Im pretty sure I read that somewhere.

I haven't seen anything about it, but this is the problem. You can't punish visa holders for doing something that is legal. AoS, as it is today, is available to anyone who didn't get turned around at PoE. Once they get in, with or without intent, they are free to marry and never return to their home countries, and they are doing absolutely nothing illegal.

 

And if there is nothing illegal, then there shouldn't be punishment. If Trump or anyone else wants to stop people from AoSing while visiting, then they need to change the rules. Immigration needs reform, not only because it currently allows all kinds of distortions, but because its organizations are understaffed, overworked, and the immigration needs of the US as a country have changed. 

[DeParaquedasBrasi 228]

2 minutes ago, Nat&Amy said:

I haven't seen anything about it, but this is the problem. You can't punish visa holders for doing something that is legal. AoS, as it is today, is available to anyone who didn't get turned around at PoE. Once they get in, with or without intent, they are free to marry and never return to their home countries, and they are doing absolutely nothing illegal.

 

And if there is nothing illegal, then there shouldn't be punishment. If Trump or anyone else wants to stop people from AoSing while visiting, then they need to change the rules. Immigration needs reform, not only because it currently allows all kinds of distortions, but because its organizations are understaffed, overworked, and the immigration needs of the US as a country have changed. 

I completely agree with you.

I know its legal to come in and marry, but that's what I thought he was trying to change or at least apply a fine.

It honestly confuses me because I know of 3 cases here in Brazil where the immigrant was on a visa when married and then sent back to Brazil to complete the application abroad. One friend in particular has been trying to go back for 3 years now but they won't approve her green card. Who knows.

Immigration is flawed, especially for us who are doing it right.....but then again legal immigration is something being tossed around as a negative thing theses days.

[Nat&Amy 623]

30 minutes ago, beloved_dingo said:

But oftentimes the USC holds all the cards and the foreign partner is just going to follow the path that the USC deems as best.

An excellent point that we very often overlook.

[SalishSea 18,067]

1 hour ago, Unlockable said:

If you see those who are able to take advantage of being able to AOS from NIV, there aren't that many.

For the most part, it is people from white, Western countries.  Those that typically are approved for B visas or benefit from VWP.

[laylalex 7,293]

Honestly, it's the echo chamber in VJ that makes it "hurt" more. When I went through the K1 process 10 years ago with my ex, I found VJ after we filed the I-129F petition. I lurked but didn't post in my old account because emotions run really, really high on here, and emotionally at that time I was kind of a wreck already. If I had posted and engaged I would have permanently lost my mind -- I got hung up on timelines, and the RFE we got (which my ex blamed me for), and on and on... and I kept wondering why I didn't just have my then-fiance come over and OOPS stay. There was a point during the K1 process when he was over here visiting that I asked him to just stay and adjust, but he said no, too much to wrap up back home. I got irritated when I read about people AOSing from the VWP/ESTA and thought they had it easy, or they were jumping the queue or whatever. Eventually my then-fiance banned me from going on VJ because it was just making me more nuts.  And you know what? Once I was gone from here, I didn't think about those other people. Didn't compare myself or our timeline anymore. He still got the visa. He still moved here and we still got married and made a life together and went through AOS and ROC and then got divorced. Stuff happens. Doesn't mean my feelings of being "cheated" weren't real, it's just they really were inconsequential in the long run. So inconsequential I completely forgot my old login details when I needed to rejoin!  

 

Focus on your own process. Stay positive, stay motivated, stay sane. Love each other. Don't get caught up in what other people are doing and when, or become consumed by the "fairness" of someone else's timeline. Be kind to each other on here --people are rightfully very emotional during this time. Vent, sure. But don't let it overcome what you should be focused on -- your own path. ❤️