Traveling with no intention to immigrate

[DrivewayCali 1]

yes it seems it's true.  I seems I would like her to have the same freedoms as a USC.  What would the correct steps to take if we were to want to make that happen?  An immigration visa?  would she be required to take residence in the US? thanks again, I am finding this to be very helpful.

[Boiler 45,557]

She would need to naturalise and become a USC, not sure how that works with keeping German Citizenship.

[TBoneTX 45,329]

Thread is moved from the K-3 Process forum to the "What Visa Do I Need" forum.

[B&C2017 123]

4 hours ago, DrivewayCali said:

yes it seems it's true.  I seems I would like her to have the same freedoms as a USC.  What would the correct steps to take if we were to want to make that happen?  An immigration visa?  would she be required to take residence in the US? thanks again, I am finding this to be very helpful.

If you really want to move to Germany and do not have any intention to move to the US, for her to become a US citizen is not the solution to your travel "problem".

 

For her to become a US Citizen, you would have to petition for her, she would have to move to the US and live there for 3 years until she could naturalize (apply for US Citizenship). Then you'd have to wait until the naturalization process is over. To sum it up:

 

Once you're married in September:

• You have to move to the US (without your wife)
• Go through the Spousal visa process which takes approx. 1-1.5 years
• Wait 3 years to start the naturalization process which takes probably another year (they're currently working on July 19 forms if I saw correctly). 

So you'd basically be looking at last at 5 year process from today for her to become a US Citizen going the CR1/IR1 route.

 

Before you're married (if you were to start the process now):

• You have to move to the US (without your fiancée)
• Petition for her --> K1 process (approx. 8-10 months), she awaits the approval in Germany.
• Get married in the US within 90 days 
• Adjust status --> AOS process (approx. 1 year, don'^t know the exact timeline) but she can't work, study, or leave the US for approx. 6 months until she recieves AP/EAD 
• Wait 3 years to start the naturalization process which takes probably another year (they're currently working on July 19 forms if I saw correctly). 

So you'd basically be looking at a process with at least a 5 year duration for her to become a US Citizen on the K1 fiancée route as well.

 

Please note that either way, she can't leave the US (when having a greencard) for more than 6 months per year or it is considered that she abandoned her LPR status and she looses her greencard.

 

If you really just want to travel, stick with the ESTA  and don't overstay the 90 days limit. Moving to Germany doesn't require you guys to be able to spend more than 30 days there to prep the move - especially if she is German and knows how things work there.

 

Applying for a visitor visa as a spouse of a US Citizen would mean she'd have to show strong ties to Germany.

Considering y'all wanting to travel up to 6 months at the time: I assume she probably doesn't have the required strong ties such as a job and appartment (assuming since people usually can't leave their job for 6 months at the time over and over again and not many people would actually pay for a house/appartment and not live in it for this long)? So that could raise red flags (immigrant intent) to the consular officer and the visitor visa would most likely be denied. 

If the travel visa would be denied, she'd have to update her ESTA question "Were you ever refused a US visa?" to "yes", which would then probably result in a refusal of the ESTA as well (as mentioned by others), which would make it impossible for her to travel to the US.

 

So in regards to travel to the US, basically you guys need to figure out where you want to establish your life together in the future:

 

Live together in the US:

- Since you're not married yet, you'd have to go one of the above described processes (K1 or CR1/IR1). She has to be in Germany for the duration of processing of either of these visas, but can travel to the US on her ESTA (90 days limit) during this time. 

 

Live together in Germany:

Travel back on forth on the ESTA within the 90 days limit.

 

Good luck on whatever route you choose 🙂

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by B&C2017

[B&C2017 123]

16 minutes ago, B&C2017 said:

Live together in the US:

- Since you're not married yet, you'd have to go one of the above described processes (K1 or CR1/IR1). She has to be in Germany for the duration of processing of either of these visas, but can travel to the US on her ESTA (90 days limit) during this time. 

 

Additional Info to lving together in the US:

- She can travel up to 6 months (I think) once she's a permament resident of the US, but she would have to be a resident in the US and not Germany.

- Once she's a USC after approx. 5 or 6 years from now (if everything goes super smooth), she can travel as long as she wants and live herever she wants. According to the German Law (§ 25 Abs. 2 StAG), she can keep her German citizenship under certain circumstances - you'd have to look into that.

[US-UK 32]

And as a US GC holder she will be a US tax resident and have US tax and reporting requirements every year on her global income and ex-US accounts, regardless where she spends her time. Pop into the tax and finances forum if you want a glimpse at what that means and costs.

 

If you aren’t ready for a long residency, employment and financial commitment to the US, stick with the VWP and follow the rules strictly re timings and not working in the US.

[andy78 178]

The short version is that you can't have it both ways.  She has one of two options. The first is to immigrate and live in the US. The second is to stay in Germany and visit the US from time to time as a non-immigrant (either 90-day VWP/ESTA or tourist visa).

 

It sounds like sticking with VWP/ESTA and planning around that seems like the least complicated route, if the plan is to live in Germany.

[Mike E 11,739]

Once she is denied a B2 visa her ESTA will be canceled and she will be under a defacto ban.  

[geowrian 22,337]

Either she immigrates and maintains her permanent residence in the US, or she visits.

I don't think you've investigated exactly how hard it is to get a tourist visa to the US from a VWP country. Being able to use the VWP is a major privilege that makes visiting much easier. Trying to get more can easily result in not being able to visit at all.

[arken 4,197]

47 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Once she is denied a B2 visa her ESTA will be canceled and she will be under a defacto ban.  

Not true. Once B2 is denied, she has to apply for new ESTA which could be approved or denied. Denial is more likely but could be approved as well. There will be no ban.

[SalishSea 17,842]

7 hours ago, B&C2017 said:

If you really want to move to Germany and do not have any intention to move to the US, for her to become a US citizen is not the solution to your travel "problem".

 

For her to become a US Citizen, you would have to petition for her, she would have to move to the US and live there for 3 years until she could naturalize (apply for US Citizenship). Then you'd have to wait until the naturalization process is over. To sum it up:

 

Once you're married in September:

• You have to move to the US (without your wife)
• Go through the Spousal visa process which takes approx. 1-1.5 years
• Wait 3 years to start the naturalization process which takes probably another year (they're currently working on July 19 forms if I saw correctly). 

So you'd basically be looking at last at 5 year process from today for her to become a US Citizen going the CR1/IR1 route.

 

Before you're married (if you were to start the process now):

• You have to move to the US (without your fiancée)
• Petition for her --> K1 process (approx. 8-10 months), she awaits the approval in Germany.
• Get married in the US within 90 days 
• Adjust status --> AOS process (approx. 1 year, don'^t know the exact timeline) but she can't work, study, or leave the US for approx. 6 months until she recieves AP/EAD 
• Wait 3 years to start the naturalization process which takes probably another year (they're currently working on July 19 forms if I saw correctly). 

So you'd basically be looking at a process with at least a 5 year duration for her to become a US Citizen on the K1 fiancée route as well.

 

Please note that either way, she can't leave the US (when having a greencard) for more than 6 months per year or it is considered that she abandoned her LPR status and she looses her greencard.

 

If you really just want to travel, stick with the ESTA  and don't overstay the 90 days limit. Moving to Germany doesn't require you guys to be able to spend more than 30 days there to prep the move - especially if she is German and knows how things work there.

 

Applying for a visitor visa as a spouse of a US Citizen would mean she'd have to show strong ties to Germany.

Considering y'all wanting to travel up to 6 months at the time: I assume she probably doesn't have the required strong ties such as a job and appartment (assuming since people usually can't leave their job for 6 months at the time over and over again and not many people would actually pay for a house/appartment and not live in it for this long)? So that could raise red flags (immigrant intent) to the consular officer and the visitor visa would most likely be denied. 

If the travel visa would be denied, she'd have to update her ESTA question "Were you ever refused a US visa?" to "yes", which would then probably result in a refusal of the ESTA as well (as mentioned by others), which would make it impossible for her to travel to the US.

 

So in regards to travel to the US, basically you guys need to figure out where you want to establish your life together in the future:

 

Live together in the US:

- Since you're not married yet, you'd have to go one of the above described processes (K1 or CR1/IR1). She has to be in Germany for the duration of processing of either of these visas, but can travel to the US on her ESTA (90 days limit) during this time. 

 

Live together in Germany:

Travel back on forth on the ESTA within the 90 days limit.

 

Good luck on whatever route you choose 🙂

 

Excellent synopsis, thank you for posting this.

[DeParaquedasBrasi 228]

13 hours ago, DrivewayCali said:

I don't foresee any reason she would be denied the B visa.  The situation is that I have to tie up a lot of loose ends before I can move to Germany.  I have house, job etc...   

I foresee many reasons why she could be denied. You plans/intentions aren't seem the same way for an interviewing officer. They don't care what your intentions are, they care about what SHE can prove.

You have absolutely nothing to do with her B visa approval, and yet have everything to do with it if its denied (it sucks, I know...ive been there). 

Honestly just come for 90 days and be go back, be smart about this and don't request more time than she's legally entitled to......whether you have "loose ends" to tie up before moving to Germany or not doesn't include her....for immigration she doesn't need to be in America for you to tie up those loose ends....if that were the case then we'd all have B visas for our spouses instead of waiting 1-2years on green cards.

Use the VWP correctly and be smart.

[Zoeeeeeee 797]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

I don't think you've investigated exactly how hard it is to get a tourist visa to the US from a VWP country. Being able to use the VWP is a major privilege that makes visiting much easier. Trying to get more can easily result in not being able to visit at all.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this - I'm from an VWP country and travelled to the US two or three times on an ESTA, before applying for a B1 visa, so I could come over for 6 months. I had no problem getting the visa and wasn't asked a lot of questions...

 

HOWEVER! My situation was very different to the OP's...I took a letter to the interview from my HR team at work, confirming I'd been given a 7 month career break to travel and that my job would be held for me for when I came back (showing strong ties to the UK, as this was a good job), and bank statements to prove I could support myself without working for that time.

 

I also didn't have any particular ties to America or reasons to overstay...such as an American spouse.

[geowrian 22,337]

5 minutes ago, Zoeeeeeee said:

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this - I'm from an VWP country and travelled to the US two or three times on an ESTA, before applying for a B1 visa, so I could come over for 6 months. I had no problem getting the visa and wasn't asked a lot of questions...

 

HOWEVER! My situation was very different to the OP's...I took a letter to the interview from my HR team at work, confirming I'd been given a 7 month career break to travel and that my job would be held for me for when I came back (showing strong ties to the UK, as this was a good job), and bank statements to prove I could support myself without working for that time.

 

I also didn't have any particular ties to America or reasons to overstay...such as an American spouse.

I'm not disagreeing, either. For people with a good case and actual need, a B visa is reasonable. I'm just saying that most people don't realize that getting a tourist visa is a very different process from using the VWP.

A (small) fraction of 1 percent of VWP travelers are denied entry.

For FY2019, 21% of UK nationals were refused a B visa. We're talking over 100x more often the visa is denied than having any issue using the VWP. Of course this is skewed by people who don't qualify for the VWP, but the general idea applies - it's much more difficult and there is considerable risk in trying.

https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY19.pdf

[DELETEME1234 208]

The issue is that what OP wants to do (hop back and forth) is not really a circumstance the system has a good answer for. Upside is that there are multiple options available that each accommodate (a part) of what you want to achieve. Plenty have been mentioned by other’s here but I’d like to opt for a slightly different option. 

 

In my opinion it would be best if you’d go live in Germany and while living there apply for your spouse’s green card with the consulate in Frankfurt through DCF (assuming the sponsorship requirements can be met). After that you’ll formally reside in the US and be US residents. There’s no need for them to apply for citizenship, the green card will give them access to the US.  

 

The issue with a B visa and VWP is that there’s no guaranteed entry and it takes one denial to get a potential ban whereas a green card will pretty much guarantee you entry. 

 

Some caveats:

I’d advice to try and not stay outside of the US longer than 179 days at a time. Not because like some people here are saying that you’ll lose the green card after 6 months, but because before the six months the LPR is not considered to be applying for admission, this is a technical matter but it basically boils down to being scrutinised at the border without a guarantee of being admitted. 

 

If you are outside of the US longer than 180 days, at return if asked always emphasise that your trip outside of the US was temporary and that your regular place of abode is in the US. Make sure that during your absence you actually have a place of abode that you have free access to. 

 

Try to ensure that each calendar year you’re more in the US than abroad (doesn’t have to be continuous). 

 

If you are going to be outside of the US for a year or longer then apply for a reentry permit with form I-131, a SB-1 Returning Resident Visa at the consulate abroad or (not advised) apply at the port of entry with the CBP officer for a waiver. 

 

Just know that there are no hard rules on this, no hard time lines (just in terms of scrutiny), CBP cannot take away your green card, they can only refer you to an immigration court. What CBP is known of doing, is asking you to sign a form that will have you abandon your LPR status, if that happens don’t sign. There are also no hard definition on what a temporary visit is. The Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit has tried to make it a bit less ephemeral, but the gist of is that the point needs to be that it’s as temporary travel outside of the US with the intention of coming back and officially domicile in the US. Also always file your US taxes (and figure out if you can elect the US to pay your taxes given the more beneficial rate compared to DE). 

 

But good luck in your endeavours becoming global citizens.