Trump grants clemency to 11, including former junk bond king Michael Milken

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

I could, but when the work has already been done, why bother?  I'm not tryna make " better Mustangs" than Ford does.  Just driving them real fast is enough for me.

 

Was there a particular number you wished to challenge?

 

   Not the numbers, just the fallacious approach. Absolute numbers don't really give any insight into abuse of power. The crimes that were pardoned or commuted do. The guy you copied and pasted is an unabashed troll, and most of his material is to that end. 

[laylalex 7,300]

7 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

So the LA Times cannot count?

Very possibly! I was basing on ... hm, I will have to find the link to what I looked at in my history. 

 

Update: Okay, I was looking at Wikipedia on my phone while I was walking through Nordstrom when I posted that and the article definitely said 19 pardons and six commutations then. Now it says 19 pardons and seven commutations. So it wasn't completely up to date, and I ask for some forgiveness for not doing a deep dive into sources while I was checking out booties for spring.

Edited February 19, 2020 by laylalex
Update

[laylalex 7,300]

Just now, Steeleballz said:

 

   Not the numbers, just the fallacious approach. Absolute numbers don't really give any insight into abuse of power. The crimes that were pardoned or commuted do. The guy you copied and pasted is an unabashed troll, and most of his material is to that end. 

Also, there's a good reason why Obama's number is so high: 

Quote

Obama granted an unprecedented number of commutations, about 1,700, under a sweeping initiative that prioritized nonviolent drug offenders. Nearly all of those selected had been sentenced under the mandatory-minimum penalties deployed during the “war on drugs” that critics say disproportionately punished minority communities. Nearly all of the people who received commutations from Obama were men and nearly 80 percent were African American and Hispanic, according to a report by the U.S. Sentencing Commission.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-pardons-former-san-francisco-49ers-owner-edward-debartolo/2020/02/18/e47f9ed6-526a-11ea-9e47-59804be1dcfb_story.html

[Boiler 45,966]

I am out on WaPo as well as LAT and it is late. Sort of reminds me of the Kobe Bryant thing they had on Sunday, none of the others that died seemed to get a mention, just seems not quite right.

 

 

[laylalex 7,300]

4 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I am out on WaPo as well as LAT and it is late. Sort of reminds me of the Kobe Bryant thing they had on Sunday, none of the others that died seemed to get a mention, just seems not quite right.

 

 

There's some good reporting on USA Today too and elsewhere. I'll find you a link not behind a paywall.

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/20/obama-used-more-clemency-power/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/obama-granted-clemency-unlike-any-other-president-in-history/ (this one is most like the info in the WaPo piece but way more in depth)

Edited February 19, 2020 by laylalex
Links!!!!

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

15 hours ago, laylalex said:

But BLAGOJEVICH??????

 

complaining about a republican president pardoning a democrat?  the sky must be falling!

9 hours ago, laylalex said:

My fiancé thinks my reasoning is "mental" (he is in finance and finds Milken's sins unpardonable) so he may agree with you!

the more i hear, the more i like alex  

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

10 hours ago, Steeleballz said:

 

   Man you need to stop using other people's twitter vomit to support your takes on everything. Surely you could come up with something on your own?

so its not true or 3

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

19 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

so its not true or 3

If you don't like someone, then their facts don't apply, it seems.  (Which isn't really a norm for SB.  I am surprised by his response)

 

As I dont have Twitter, I have no idea who this supposed troll is.  I checked Trump's and Obama's numbers against a valid source on the matter, not wikipedia, and they seemed accurate, so I re-used it.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

If you don't like someone, then their facts don't apply, it seems.  (Which isn't really a norm for SB.  I am surprised by his response)

 

As I dont have Twitter, I have no idea who this supposed troll is.  I checked Trump's and Obama's numbers against a valid source on the matter, not wikipedia, and they seemed accurate, so I re-used it.

 

  I'm pretty sure I already told you I'm not disputing the numbers. The absolute numbers have nothing to do with the extent of abuse of power, and the troll who posted this doesn't want to be "educated", he wants to continue trolling liberals on twitter. However you already know that. Probably why you brought it here.

 

  I know what the reaction from some here would have been if Obama had pardoned or commuted the sentence of his buddy Blagojevich. Not sure why anyone thinks it's defensible now. 

[Boiler 45,966]

9 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

  I know what the reaction from some here would have been if Obama had pardoned or commuted the sentence of his buddy Blagojevich. Not sure why anyone thinks it's defensible now. 

I can only speak for myself, exactly the same. I do not understand why these people merit clemency.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

7 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  I'm pretty sure I already told you I'm not disputing the numbers. The absolute numbers have nothing to do with the extent of abuse of power, and the troll who posted this doesn't want to be "educated", he wants to continue trolling liberals on twitter. However you already know that. Probably why you brought it here.

 

  I know what the reaction from some here would have been if Obama had pardoned or commuted the sentence of his buddy Blagojevich. Not sure why anyone thinks it's defensible now. 

A) I brought it here because I have seen the outrage online about how horrible Trump is for doing this, and a friend posted that meme.  Seemed appropriate.

 

2) I have no idea who Blagojevich is.  Never heard of him (or her, not assuming anything)

 

I doubt you have any idea how many of those 1900+ people who got off under Obama were his "buddies".  I am sure that under both presidents (all of them, actually), some staffers actually review the cases and make recommendations to the president on whom to pardon.  Whether or not they act on it is up to them.  But I doubt Obama took the time to review all 1900 cases.  Did they (presidents) recognize some names?  Perhaps.

[yuna628 9,700]

19 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

A) I brought it here because I have seen the outrage online about how horrible Trump is for doing this, and a friend posted that meme.  Seemed appropriate.

 

2) I have no idea who Blagojevich is.  Never heard of him (or her, not assuming anything)

 

I doubt you have any idea how many of those 1900+ people who got off under Obama were his "buddies".  I am sure that under both presidents (all of them, actually), some staffers actually review the cases and make recommendations to the president on whom to pardon.  Whether or not they act on it is up to them.  But I doubt Obama took the time to review all 1900 cases.  Did they (presidents) recognize some names?  Perhaps.

Sometimes presidents pardon. Often they pardon people that are bad. Very bad. People that belong in jail and do not deserve freedom. It is appropriate to criticize a president when they do a stupid thing, right?

 

Blagojevich is not a good person. He was involved in trying to sell Obama's senate seat to whatever the highest bidder, lived a lifestyle that was brought to him by fraud, and was not loved by D's or R's. In fact it brought D's and R's together to impeach him and remove him from office as governor. He was also then banned from holding office in Illinios ever again. One other bit of lovely fraud and extortion ''Blago" as he's known committed - trying to bribe and withhold funds from a children's cancer hospital. There was also 'pay to play' involvement likely with Rahm Emanuel. If you think of Illinios as a place of corrupt politicians and ties to the mob, there's your guy.. with involvement of his wife and other family members and four members of his staff. The FEDs brought him up on charges ranging fro extortion, bribery, fraud, racketeering,  lying and many more - of which the grand jury indited. All of these were serious charges which proved what a disgusting person he was. The trial of course ended up screwed, resulting in hung the first time (all sorts of shady stuff going on here because there were many political players scared of being outed), and convicted the second. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich_corruption_charges#Impeachment_vote_and_trial The dude was a joke, an embarassment, and honestly? R voices and talking heads at the time were all up in this saying how corrupt and outrageous it was and how he deserved to fry and started connecting dots to major D players. It was bad all around.

 

I think it was a given Trump would stoop so low to pardon him. He's whined about being in prison for years, starred in The Apprentice, and the two are friends. It is a great mistake to free him, just as it was wrong to free many of these people. I do not like presidential pardons, because the list of persons you end up with are usually those who had 'friends' that donated money to get out, or a range of persons that are just terrible. They are rarely ever 'little guys' with little advocation on their behalf.

Edited February 19, 2020 by yuna628

[laylalex 7,300]

2 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

complaining about a republican president pardoning a democrat?  the sky must be falling!

the more i hear, the more i like alex  

Yuna explains my reasoning more eloquently than I did.

 

And Alex does tend to have that effect on people. Who knows why he puts up with me.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

3 hours ago, Ban Hammer said:

complaining about a republican president pardoning a democrat?  the sky must be falling!

the more i hear, the more i like alex  

 

   This used to be the norm. It's strange to me nowadays that some people see letting criminals out of jail as a partisan issue.  

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

48 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Sometimes presidents pardon. Often they pardon people that are bad. Very bad. People that belong in jail and do not deserve freedom. It is appropriate to criticize a president when they do a stupid thing, right?

 

Blagojevich is not a good person. He was involved in trying to sell Obama's senate seat to whatever the highest bidder, lived a lifestyle that was brought to him by fraud, and was not loved by D's or R's. In fact it brought D's and R's together to impeach him and remove him from office as governor. He was also then banned from holding office in Illinios ever again. One other bit of lovely fraud and extortion ''Blago" as he's known committed - trying to bribe and withhold funds from a children's cancer hospital. There was also 'pay to play' involvement likely with Rahm Emanuel. If you think of Illinios as a place of corrupt politicians and ties to the mob, there's your guy.. with involvement of his wife and other family members and four members of his staff. The FEDs brought him up on charges ranging fro extortion, bribery, fraud, racketeering,  lying and many more - of which the grand jury indited. All of these were serious charges which proved what a disgusting person he was. The trial of course ended up screwed, resulting in hung the first time (all sorts of shady stuff going on here because there were many political players scared of being outed), and convicted the second. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich_corruption_charges#Impeachment_vote_and_trial The dude was a joke, an embarassment, and honestly? R voices and talking heads at the time were all up in this saying how corrupt and outrageous it was and how he deserved to fry and started connecting dots to major D players. It was bad all around.

 

I think it was a given Trump would stoop so low to pardon him. He's whined about being in prison for years, starred in The Apprentice, and the two are friends. It is a great mistake to free him, just as it was wrong to free many of these people. I do not like presidential pardons, because the list of persons you end up with are usually those who had 'friends' that donated money to get out, or a range of persons that are just terrible. They are rarely ever 'little guys' with little advocation on their behalf.

Thanks for the clarification. 

 

But I'm confused... how does one go about selling a president's senate seat?  Is that even possible?