form i-944 is going to affect ROC?

[Lucky2Lucky 2,526]

40 minutes ago, Nikkif99uk said:

i'm confused is the I-944 form to be filled out by the petitioner or beneficiary I'm confused. I am still awaiting NOA2 but was looking at the form when I do AOS I have to fill this in but how do you have a US credit score if you have only just moved to the US. I own a house in the UK and have a mortgage and deed of trust with my mum as she paid deposit. I also have student loan etc. Do I fill in this or my fiancee???

I think it’s the immigrant.

[Loren Y 2,756]

The other thing that's shady about it, in the instructions it tells you how to obtain your free credit reports from the 3 big agencies, and it's true, your report is free, I run my report every 4 months rotating the agencies so I get a report once a year from each. I've been doing this for years now, and what they don't mention is that you have to pay for your actual credit score. The report is free so you can check for errors, but all of them charge for your actual score from them. 10-15 bucks or so. So, just another way to make you spend money.

[geowrian 22,338]

3 hours ago, Duke & Marie said:

Assuming it’s completed by the petitioner, I can’t see it having a positive effect on the AOS. 

 

Many sponsors might meet the income requirements, but once they disclose their bills/responsiblities such as mortgage, car loans and/or even tax debts, it will become highly apparent that many just can’t afford to sponsor people

The I-944 is completed by the intending immigrant, not the petitioner.

 

1 hour ago, xillini said:

Which is why it is highly recommended that "just answer what you are being asked", not divulging more information than what is requested.

Yes. But the point is it is directly being asked.

To be fair, it is asked previously on the visa application and/or petition, but that is very arguably not material (whereas this is more likely to be deemed material IMO).

 

10 minutes ago, Loren Y said:

The other thing that's shady about it, in the instructions it tells you how to obtain your free credit reports from the 3 big agencies, and it's true, your report is free, I run my report every 4 months rotating the agencies so I get a report once a year from each. I've been doing this for years now, and what they don't mention is that you have to pay for your actual credit score. The report is free so you can check for errors, but all of them charge for your actual score from them. 10-15 bucks or so. So, just another way to make you spend money.

Most credit cards allow you to get a score for free, too.

That said, I don't think this is some ploy just to get people to spend an extra few bucks. This is small drops in a very large bucket, and nothing they ever see a cent of.

To be clear, I highly dislike the credit part of it entirely...credit histories and scores were never meant to be used for this purpose. But the cost of getting a report is a non-issue.

[Loren Y 2,756]

15 minutes ago, geowrian said:

The I-944 is completed by the intending immigrant, not the petitioner.

 

Yes. But the point is it is directly being asked.

To be fair, it is asked previously on the visa application and/or petition, but that is very arguably not material (whereas this is more likely to be deemed material IMO).

 

Most credit cards allow you to get a score for free, too.

That said, I don't think this is some ploy just to get people to spend an extra few bucks. This is small drops in a very large bucket, and nothing they ever see a cent of.

To be clear, I highly dislike the credit part of it entirely...credit histories and scores were never meant to be used for this purpose. But the cost of getting a report is a non-issue.

I thought that also, but it looks like they want the actual report from the credit agencies. I have free credit scores on probably 4-5 of my credit cards, but they are just estimates using FICO 7 or 8 formulas and stuff. It even has disclaimers saying this is a estimate of your credit score based on this formula, it's not your true score from Experian, Equifax, or TransUnion. They have their own formulas for your actual score. Hopefully they will allow the credit card ones, but I don't think so.

 

I just logged into my discover card and pulled the disclaimer, it is below...

 

FICO^® Credit Score Terms: Your FICO^® Credit Score, key factors and other credit information use the FICO^® Score 8 model. They are based on data from TransUnion^® and may be different from other credit scores and other credit information provided by different bureaus. FICO is a registered trademark of the Fair Isaac Corporation in the United States and other countries.

The information that you have received is not intended to represent all information in your credit file at TransUnion^®. To obtain a full disclosure of information in your credit file at TransUnion^®, you may visit https://www.transunion.com/credit-report Opens in new windowor call 800-888-4213. (A fee may apply.) You may also be entitled to obtain a copy of your full report free of charge at annualcreditreport.com.

 

Notice they mention a "Fee may apply"

Edited February 18, 2020 by Loren Y

[geowrian 22,338]

7 minutes ago, Loren Y said:

I thought that also, but it looks like they want the actual report from the credit agencies. I have free credit scores on probably 4-5 of my credit cards, but they are just estimates using FICO 7 or 8 formulas and stuff. It even has disclaimers saying this is a estimate of your credit score based on this formula, it's not your true score from Experian, Equifax, or TransUnion. They have their own formulas for your actual score. Hopefully they will allow the credit card ones, but I don't think so.

The I-944 instructions direct you to this: https://www.usa.gov/credit-reports

That page says

Quote

It's important to make sure your credit report is accurate, so your credit score can be too. You can have multiple credit scores. They're not calculated by the same credit reporting agencies that maintain your credit reports.  Instead, they're created by different companies or lenders that use their own credit scoring system.   

 

Your free annual credit report does not include your credit score, but you can get your credit score from several sources. Your credit card company may give it to you for free. You could also buy it from one of the three major credit reporting agencies. When you receive your score, you often get information on how you can improve it

That also refers to: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/where-can-i-get-my-credit-score-en-316/

 

This implies that the one provided free via credit cards should be acceptable.

[Loren Y 2,756]

Just now, geowrian said:

The I-944 instructions direct you to this: https://www.usa.gov/credit-reports

That page says

That also refers to: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/where-can-i-get-my-credit-score-en-316/

 

This implies that the one provided free via credit cards should be acceptable.

That's good then. Should save some money then, guess I should have clicked the links.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

52 minutes ago, Loren Y said:

The other thing that's shady about it, in the instructions it tells you how to obtain your free credit reports from the 3 big agencies, and it's true, your report is free, I run my report every 4 months rotating the agencies so I get a report once a year from each. I've been doing this for years now, and what they don't mention is that you have to pay for your actual credit score. The report is free so you can check for errors, but all of them charge for your actual score from them. 10-15 bucks or so. So, just another way to make you spend money.

What? You don't have to pay for a credit score, I get mine in the email every time there is a change. 

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

2 hours ago, geowrian said:

The I-944 is completed by the intending immigrant, not the petitioner.

 

Yes. But the point is it is directly being asked.

To be fair, it is asked previously on the visa application and/or petition, but that is very arguably not material (whereas this is more likely to be deemed material IMO)..

Well then I’m totally confused, given the following:

1) lots of countries don’t live on credit like the US

2) I personally look at credit cards as a money trap, and prefer to save/buy cash rather than make interest payments I don’t have credit cards, have no intention of getting one, ever! The only thing I’ve ever had a lone for was my house and that was minimal amount as I’d saved over 80% as a down payment.

3) here for example.. your score is affected by everything, 1 day past due date on a utility bill and boom your credit is shredded 

4) credit scores don’t carry over to the US

5)any new immigrants or arrivals will have a shocking credit score

 

so how is it relevant to the application of immigration? 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Duke & Marie

[geowrian 22,338]

30 minutes ago, Duke & Marie said:

Well then I’m totally confused, given the following:

1) lots of countries don’t live on credit like the US

2) I personally look at credit cards as a money trap, and prefer to save/buy cash rather than make interest payments I don’t have credit cards, have no intention of getting one, ever! The only thing I’ve ever had a lone for was my house and that was minimal amount as I’d saved over 80% as a down payment.

3) here for example.. your score is affected by everything, 1 day past due date on a utility bill and boom your credit is shredded 

4) credit scores don’t carry over to the US

5)any new immigrants or arrivals will have a shocking credit score

 

so how is it relevant to the application of immigration? 

1) Not an issue. You would have no history or score to provide. This is neither a positive nor negative factor.

That said, I think it is actually a net positive as you are permitted (not required) to provide bill & loan histories to show satisfactory payments in lieu of a credit history or score. If you have that, it's a positive. If not, just don't send anything in and it won't count either way.

 

2) Not an issue. See above.

Also, I love credit cards but never carry a balance. Rewards are nice. Convenience is nice. Accountability of funds is nice. I'm personally more likely to spend more when I have cash as I have no way to reliably trace where the money went.

For other folks, they cannot manage their money the same way and tend to overspend. That is a serious issue. Different strokes for different folks. Even then, a charge card (you pay in full every month) or debit card is a great tool IMHO.

 

3) Generally not how it works. A single late payment does not devastate your creditworthiness. Often they will not even put a mark against your history unless it is 15 or 30+ days past due. One day late being held against you would be an exception, not the norm, in my experience. YMMV

 

4) No problem. See #1.

 

5) Often they will have no credit score as they have no relevant credit history. See #1 again. That said, my wife's credit was in the upper 700s within the first 6 months of coming to the US just via being an authorized user on my cards. She was over 800 at about 1 year in.

 

I agree that using credit scores for immigration is inappropriate and ineffective. Per my previous remark, they were not intended for use this way.

But it's there now so it's something else we have to deal with to get our loved ones through the process.

Edited February 18, 2020 by geowrian

[Orangesapples 1,954]

53 minutes ago, Duke & Marie said:

 

2) I personally look at credit cards as a money trap, and prefer to save/buy cash rather than make interest payments I don’t have credit cards, have no intention of getting one, ever! The only thing I’ve ever had a lone for was my house and that was minimal amount as I’d saved over 80% as a down payment.

 

A little off topic but this is not necessarily true in the US at all. Credit cards are dangerous in the hands of irresponsible individuals who don't know how to stop spending but if you're a reasonable person, they can be valuable. They offer much better security than debit cards and if there is a fraudulent transaction on your credit card, it's usually no big deal to dispute it and not pay for it. With a debit card, that's a much bigger risk as your actual cash is taken out immediately. 

 

Credit cards also offer you some great rewards on your spending. The trick is to use credit cards the same way you would use a debit card - only buy things you can afford and pay the balance off every month. This way you won't ever pay any interest and you'll also get to receive points. My spouse and I have taken quite a few free trips thanks to credit card points. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Orangesapples

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

29 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

A little off topic but this is not necessarily true in the US at all. Credit cards are dangerous in the hands of irresponsible individuals who don't know how to stop spending but if you're a reasonable person, they can be valuable. They offer much better security than debit cards and if there is a fraudulent transaction on your credit card, it's usually no big deal to dispute it and not pay for it. With a debit card, that's a much bigger risk as your actual cash is taken out immediately. 

 

Credit cards also offer you some great rewards on your spending. The trick is to use credit cards the same way you would use a debit card - only buy things you can afford and pay the balance off every month. This way you won't ever pay any interest and you'll also get to receive points. My spouse and I have taken quite a few free trips thanks to credit card points. 

I see your point, but regardless, I never spend money I don’t have.. my theory is if I want something bad enough I’ll work and save for it.. if I don’t want it bad enough to do that then I go without... 

 

but back on point.. I really don’t see how a credit score affects immigration.. I know people in thousands of dollars debt thanks to credit cards ok they have a great score, but the $4k a month credit card bill for items long ago spent or purchased dosent make them more financially responsible than me who has no monthly credit card bill, freed up cash to spend as I like and no credit score.. 

[Orangesapples 1,954]

38 minutes ago, Duke & Marie said:

I see your point, but regardless, I never spend money I don’t have.. my theory is if I want something bad enough I’ll work and save for it.. if I don’t want it bad enough to do that then I go without... 

 

 

You can literally do that while using a credit card. You can pay it off every day if you'd like or only buy things if you currently have the money needed in your bank account, you just put the payment on your credit card so that you can get the points. I also like saving money, credit cards just make it easier. 

 

I agree that a credit score being used by immigration is a terrible idea and credit card debt should be avoided. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Orangesapples