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Soldier Support

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Trumplestiltskin Grand Master

Trumplestiltskin   5,791

Posted
Filed: Other Country: United Kingdom
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Posted

On the subject of the nazis, I think its important to point out that only the SS were actually members of the nazi party. The regular german army were not nazis, but the fact that any german soldier serving in WW2 is (often mistakenly) characterised as a nazi validates what I was saying.

As I said, regardless of how honourable you are - by serving as a member of the armed forces (like it or not) you are characterised by the broader context of the conflict in which you are serving.

During Vietnam, returning vets were spat upon and abused because they served in a war that was deeply unpopular. While I don't condone that sort of behaviour, the point stands. Regardless of your character, your intentions in signing (however honourable) you have to accept that to some degree you will be characterised by the political context of the conflict in which you are serving.

Hilarious Clinton Grand Master

Hilarious Clinton   452

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Solomon Islands
 Timeline
Posted
On the subject of the nazis, I think its important to point out that only the SS were actually members of the nazi party. The regular german army were not nazis, but the fact that any german soldier serving in WW2 is (often mistakenly) characterised as a nazi validates what I was saying.

As I said, regardless of how honourable you are - by serving as a member of the armed forces (like it or not) you are characterised by the broader context of the conflict in which you are serving.

Many civilians were nazi party members too. Most government workers had to join the party.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

Hilarious Clinton Grand Master

Hilarious Clinton   452

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Solomon Islands
 Timeline
Posted
Gawd....I hate war.... :angry:

But do you consider it ironic that because of war you are able to freely state that? ;)

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

Hilarious Clinton Grand Master

Hilarious Clinton   452

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Solomon Islands
 Timeline
Posted
Gawd....I hate war.... :angry:
But do you consider it ironic that because of war you are able to freely state that? ;)

That's debatable...

That's what we're doing. remember? :)

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

Mr. Big Dog Grand Master

Mr. Big Dog   10,747

Posted
Filed: Timeline
Posted
Gawd....I hate war.... :angry:
But do you consider it ironic that because of war you are able to freely state that? ;)
That's debatable...
That's what we're doing. remember? :)

I know.

Just saying that much like the vast majority of soldiers are no defenders of rights and freedoms, the vast majority of wars is not about the freedom of speech either. Wars, including the most recent one, are usually about the pursuit of imperialistic goals.

There'd be freedom of speech w/o wars. Much more so than with them... ;)

pax Proficient

pax   0

Posted
Filed: AOS (apr) Country: United Kingdom
 Timeline
Posted

I'm not sure I'm completely with you on that last point, Reinhard. Do you really think the rights we tend to assume are part and parcel of democracy, like freedom of speech, would have been gained without some unfortunate violent revolution? I'm very uncomfortable, to say the least, with modern war myself and I think you've made some very good points about the danger of the idealization of the soldier. But I'm not sure that a series of polite diplomatic sessions with King George III, for example, would have produced the Bill of Rights.

Am I missing something here?

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all the mud in this town, all the dirt in this world

none of it sticks on you, you shake it off

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Fuzzness Experienced

Fuzzness   2

Posted
Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Canada
 Timeline
Posted (edited)

You mean to tell me that England didn't have freedom of speech when America was colonized?

I'm not an english historian, that's why I ask. If they didn't have freedom of speech then, I am not aware of it.

Edited by Fuzzness
Hilarious Clinton Grand Master

Hilarious Clinton   452

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Solomon Islands
 Timeline
Posted

What if Germany and Japan weren't stopped in WW2? Would we be enjoying freedom of speech under their rule?

All wars are not neccesarily good or bad. But they are neccesary.

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

Fuzzness Experienced

Fuzzness   2

Posted
Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Canada
 Timeline
Posted (edited)
What if Germany and Japan weren't stopped in WW2? Would we be enjoying freedom of speech under their rule?

All wars are not neccesarily good or bad. But they are neccesary.

We don't know that we wouldn't, do we? it's all speculation. But I will agree that that one was necessary

but tell me what was so necessary about invading and occupying Iraq?

Edited by Fuzzness
Hilarious Clinton Grand Master

Hilarious Clinton   452

Posted
Filed: Lift. Cond. (apr) Country: Solomon Islands
 Timeline
Posted (edited)

What if Germany and Japan weren't stopped in WW2? Would we be enjoying freedom of speech under their rule?

All wars are not neccesarily good or bad. But they are neccesary.

We don't know that we wouldn't, do we? it's all speculation. But I will agree that that one was necessary

but tell me what was so necessary about invading and occupying Iraq?

Umm OK. Go ask the 6 million Jews (plus millions of others) how they are enjoying their freedoms. Oh.. nevermind.

speculation LOL :lol:

edit. I never meantioned Iraq.

Edited by rch99

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies."

Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006



barack-cowboy-hat.jpg
90f.JPG

Fuzzness Experienced

Fuzzness   2

Posted
Filed: K-1 Visa Country: Canada
 Timeline
Posted

What if Germany and Japan weren't stopped in WW2? Would we be enjoying freedom of speech under their rule?

All wars are not neccesarily good or bad. But they are neccesary.

We don't know that we wouldn't, do we? it's all speculation. But I will agree that that one was necessary

but tell me what was so necessary about invading and occupying Iraq?

Umm OK. Go ask the 6 million Jews (plus millions of others) how they are enjoying their freedoms. Oh.. nevermind.

speculation LOL :lol:

edit. I never meantioned Iraq.

I thought we were talking about OUR freedom of speech?

You said all wars are necessary. Does the Iraq war not count as a war now?

 

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