Wife wants to move to Seattle

[chuckandkim 0]

in any case a compromise between a few days of vacation to seattle

I suggested that in my early post! I hope with that visit and seeing for themselves what life actually life will be like if they MOVED? Phong mentioned he was in Seattle before, but alone. Let's try to visit Mai's sister together and see for themselves if they can live there under her sister's roof for an extended amount of time. See how well that works out for them.

I also agree with others, "homesick" is a big factor here too! There is no silverbullet to treat this common dease among the wives who came here from other country. Each has his/her own way to overcome this little struggle! But ignoring it isn't one of them!

To LisaD, you are the exception to the mass! I admired your story and by all mean to be disrepect but I can only make my opinion and assumption based on my observation inside the beauty industry from an outsider's point of view. Nail Technician's license can be obtained and bought via "hiring" someone else to take the exam for you, or just buy it flat out with cold hard cash. You only need so many licensed nail tech in your shop to open a shop, the rest can be working with or without his/her license. But that is not the point here, Phong's wife wants to move Seattle to be closed to her sister after three months living here with him in CT, many see it OK and normal. In asian culture it could be seen as disrepectful to Phong's parents that the daughter-in-law dislike his family and want to move away. Phong is in a tough situation, not there yet but he will come to the point if he's not handling the matter with care, that his new arrival spouse will run the family and tell him what to do.

There is no equal partner in marriage. You become "CO-DEPENDENCE" to each other. What matters to you is what matter to me, and vice versa. However, like I mentioned earlier, 3 months is too short of a time for anyone who come here from Vietnam to decide where is the best place to live with your husband and raise a family. Being closed to Mai's sister is a legit reason which Phong should be considering, BUT not after 3 months being here Mai! Maybe after 3 years!!!!!!!!

Each man runs his house differently! That is what I would have done If I were you Phong! But fortunately I do not have to make that choice with Kim. We were married to be with each other, location isn't the biggest deal for us to think about. We want to be with each other whever, here in the US, or Japan or going back to VN. But the willingness to try out this new living condition is a must have for all new arrivals. Ask her to try it out with you, for this is also new experience for you too... living CT with a wife... isn't it?

Good luck Phong,

chuck and kim

[Galateia 1]

Be or leader of your family, the protector and providor of your household or else, you are just a pushover and lose all respect which your wife is looking for in her husband.

Phong is in a tough situation, not there yet but he will come to the point if he's not handling the matter with care, that his new arrival spouse will run the family and tell him what to do.

There is no equal partner in marriage. You become "CO-DEPENDENCE" to each other. What matters to you is what matter to me, and vice versa. However, like I mentioned earlier, 3 months is too short of a time for anyone who come here from Vietnam to decide where is the best place to live with your husband and raise a family. Being closed to Mai's sister is a legit reason which Phong should be considering, BUT not after 3 months being here Mai! Maybe after 3 years!!!!!!!!

Each man runs his house differently! That is what I would have done If I were you Phong! But fortunately I do not have to make that choice with Kim. We were married to be with each other, location isn't the biggest deal for us to think about. We want to be with each other whever, here in the US, or Japan or going back to VN. But the willingness to try out this new living condition is a must have for all new arrivals. Ask her to try it out with you, for this is also new experience for you too... living CT with a wife... isn't it?

Good luck Phong,

chuck and kim

Don't look now, but you are in the USA. Women and men have equal status here. Wives may be subservient to their husbands and be expected to 'go wherest their husbands go' with no consideration for their own wishes in other parts of the world, and the man may be the head of the house and 'rule' his wife in other parts of the world, but in North America, these comments you have made are sexist, misogynistic, and just plain offensive.

In North America, a man and a wife are both equal partners in a marriage. This is the model that the legal system strives for. 'Co-dependence' is considered to be a negative behaviour pattern and therapists work hard to break people of this unhealthy habit.

"3 months is too short of a time for anyone who come here from Vietnam to decide where is the best place to live with your husband and raise a family." Did you miss the part in the OP where he said it would be a temporary move of 1-2 years? No one said anything about settling there and raising a family.

I am astounded at the pseudo-Paleolithic attitudes that have flourished in this thread.

[jundp 191]

And for the person who seriously suggested that he knock her up to get rid of her free time and therefore her right to complain: the Dark Ages called; they want their handbook back.

Bwahahahaha. Yes, seriously. This is a frightening form of "woman, get thee in the kitchen" that women in America have tried for years to get rid of. There's nothing wrong with having a baby if both spouses are ready for it, but to assume that this will occupy all her free time and that it's ACCEPTABLE is incredibly sexist.

Forgot to mention that in my previous post - indeed, the beauty industry is NOT something "bimbo only" and it requires dedication and continuous improvement and learning! Hey! I have a couple of friends in the field and they make more money than I do teaching in higher education!

Me too, and me too. I'm with Lisa on this one. It doesn't matter what "can" happen in any field. To disparage an entire industry because of it is wrong and stereoptypical. I also have friends in the beauty industry who are not only highly educated and intelligent, but make far more money than I ever shall as a teacher. I'm ok with it, because this is my chosen profession, but they don't stay in it for the money solely either.

Also, I understand cultural differences, but I'm not sure why it is being made out that Mai's feelings aren't as important as Phong's or his parent's even? He married her....not his parents. His wife's feelings should be paramount in his decision making, not his parents. I do think that they should take some time to make this difficult decision, but Chuck and Kim, you are making it sound like he must rule over his home with an iron fist. #######? It is the year 2008 is it not? And aren't we in America?

[phong+mai 0]

Wow, what have I started and where do I begin?

To answer some general questions that were asked:

-We're currently living with my parents

-Mai's college degree is in English (issued in Vietnam so isn't worth the paper it's printed on)

-Mai and I went to Seattle together last month for a week so she has been there

On gender-based roles:

I've lived here my entire life so I'm not huge on a designated "wearer of the pants". However, under the circumstances, I believe I'm much more qualified than her to be making these types of decisions right now. As the primary bread-winner (currently), I feel I'm entitled to voice my opinion. Also, she's making her decisions based primarily on emotion and has not really thought everything out. If she were to move right now, she would be a burden on her sister and I would feel very irresponsible if I were to let that happen.

On the beauty industry:

It's generally a bad idea to make generalizations I beautician/cosmetology license in WA state requires over 3000 hours of schooling and work experience. I've seen some of the course material and it looks like a biology textbook straight out of college. Calling these people uneducated would be... an uneducated statement, ha! That said, there is no license required to be a nail technician in most states and as a result, you get many uneducated immigrants flocking to the field. It's a very lucrative business that requires little initial investment. However, I find many of the people to be cutthroat and wouldn't want my wife working in such a hostile environment.

-

This weekend, I basically told Mai that I think it's way to early for her to be making another life decision so soon after she made such a huge one by moving to the U.S. I told her that she is making a decision based on a single week's vacation and that visiting a place is much different than actually living there - the charm wears off real quick. Also, any move to Seattle would be one without me since it's simply not possible for me to move right now. I told her that I want her to go back to school for at least two years and if she still wants to move, I will be more than happy to consider it then. By then, she will have gained some more perspective. She seemed happy with this decision and agrees with my assessment.

Edited June 19, 2007 by phong+mai

[Tim and Bethanie 1]

Phong that is good to hear she understands and is accepting this. Wonderful you have included her in the decision making by being patient and explaining it the way you did.

[Lance27 19]

Glad it worked out. Good luck

[chuckandkim 0]

Phong,

I'm glad it works out! The reasons listed here seem to be reasonable!!! Any no, by all mean I tell you or anyone to wear the pants or not, I would prefer people wear pants when I see them But what I've been trying to say here is: no way she is capable of making such decision to move YOU to Seattle after being here for 3 months. Nail/Hair Stylist whatever, it doesn't matter, you don't need to go to Seattle to learn that skill. NYC is a lot closer and is the capital of the world hairstyles and fashion! Think of moving there instead? It doesn't mater where you move, you two have to make the decision, one of you need to, not both! Respect each other and let one leads! An Amtrak can't have two engines pulling the opposite directions, neither one will get to its destination anytime quick!

I don't know if I am qualified for the label you granted me as misogynist and sexist:

Not sure why you call me such, when I tried to point out Mai can not make any decision after living in this country 3 months.

On top of that, believe it or not, man and woman are NOT equal partners. Nice that you believe in that whole idea of "equality" in society, it doesn't happen! We share our responsibilities in my household. We take turn run it as best as we can. Not every decision will be compromised, there are times, one of us must make the decision for the other and be as it may, it comes with the responsibility for whatever result may come out from that decision.

I should have known some of you have such an itch to label other in such away, I would have had a "DISCLAIMER" next to my post! But the sad truth is, you are who you are and north America now 10x better because of you! You need to see a therapist to unlock the fact that a man and woman become co-dependence in their relationship once they get married? Your independence is checked in at the door! I know I can't just go out for Happy Hour after work any longer because I need to check with my wife if she has any plan this Friday!!!!! I know I don't go out and buy a new $5000 car stereo any longer, because the wife needs to have the bathroom remodel. I know I can't just invite my buddies over for beers every sunday, for Kim has plan to help someone from Church moving in the new house. But on the other hand, she knows we can't afford to go to Vietnam every New Year's, because we have jobs to attend to, and bills to pay. My wife knows our money is there for her to spend but it doesn't mean she will, nor will I! Budget is the key and take discipline. It works for us!

To point out one more thing: What may be acceptable and deems to be RIGHT in the West, isn't necessary that the other parts of the world is WRONG! For once, divorce rate in Asia, mater of fact, Southeast Asia, is much less than North America! Why? I don't have the answer to that, but I know my grandfather, dad and uncles in my family are respectable men who love and care for their family, making tough decision and take the responsibility and respect they earn from their family for years. Remember, behind every GREAT MAN is a GREAT WOMAN.

I know I can't do what I do and get through without the support and advice from my wife. I respect and love her beyond words can describe. Another fact, all my bosses in my professional career have been some of the brightest and greatest women I've ever met in my life and the worse bosses are men. IMHO! So, by all mean, give me the label man of the dark-age, misogynist, and sexist, it won't change the fact of the matter here in this thread: Phong will make the ultimate decision regardless of his wife's wishes at this point, after being 3 months in the country.

[Galateia 1]

Phong,

I'm glad it works out! The reasons listed here seem to be reasonable!!! Any no, by all mean I tell you or anyone to wear the pants or not, I would prefer people wear pants when I see them But what I've been trying to say here is: no way she is capable of making such decision to move YOU to Seattle after being here for 3 months. Nail/Hair Stylist whatever, it doesn't matter, you don't need to go to Seattle to learn that skill. NYC is a lot closer and is the capital of the world hairstyles and fashion! Think of moving there instead? It doesn't mater where you move, you two have to make the decision, one of you need to, not both! Respect each other and let one leads! An Amtrak can't have two engines pulling the opposite directions, neither one will get to its destination anytime quick!

I don't know if I am qualified for the label you granted me as misogynist and sexist:

Not sure why you call me such, when I tried to point out Mai can not make any decision after living in this country 3 months.

On top of that, believe it or not, man and woman are NOT equal partners. Nice that you believe in that whole idea of "equality" in society, it doesn't happen! We share our responsibilities in my household. We take turn run it as best as we can. Not every decision will be compromised, there are times, one of us must make the decision for the other and be as it may, it comes with the responsibility for whatever result may come out from that decision.

I should have known some of you have such an itch to label other in such away, I would have had a "DISCLAIMER" next to my post! But the sad truth is, you are who you are and north America now 10x better because of you! You need to see a therapist to unlock the fact that a man and woman become co-dependence in their relationship once they get married? Your independence is checked in at the door! I know I can't just go out for Happy Hour after work any longer because I need to check with my wife if she has any plan this Friday!!!!! I know I don't go out and buy a new $5000 car stereo any longer, because the wife needs to have the bathroom remodel. I know I can't just invite my buddies over for beers every sunday, for Kim has plan to help someone from Church moving in the new house. But on the other hand, she knows we can't afford to go to Vietnam every New Year's, because we have jobs to attend to, and bills to pay. My wife knows our money is there for her to spend but it doesn't mean she will, nor will I! Budget is the key and take discipline. It works for us!

To point out one more thing: What may be acceptable and deems to be RIGHT in the West, isn't necessary that the other parts of the world is WRONG! For once, divorce rate in Asia, mater of fact, Southeast Asia, is much less than North America! Why? I don't have the answer to that, but I know my grandfather, dad and uncles in my family are respectable men who love and care for their family, making tough decision and take the responsibility and respect they earn from their family for years. Remember, behind every GREAT MAN is a GREAT WOMAN.

I know I can't do what I do and get through without the support and advice from my wife. I respect and love her beyond words can describe. Another fact, all my bosses in my professional career have been some of the brightest and greatest women I've ever met in my life and the worse bosses are men. IMHO! So, by all mean, give me the label man of the dark-age, misogynist, and sexist, it won't change the fact of the matter here in this thread: Phong will make the ultimate decision regardless of his wife's wishes at this point, after being 3 months in the country.

Dictionary Definition of Co-Dependency

Wikipedia article on Co-Dependency

I am astonished that you need to ask how you earned the label 'sexist'. See above bolded comments, and the ones in my previous post. You did not just try "to point out Mai can not make any decision after living in this country 3 months", you insisted Phong 'put on the pants' and put his wife in her place, lest she 'not respect him'.

I can assure you that equality in relationships most certainly can happen, and that inequality in relationships breeds difficulties. I am marrying a psychologist and my roommate is a sociologist. I've heard plenty on the subject.

You compare relationships to an Amtrak that cannot have more than one engine; I see the man and woman in a relationship as two horses hitched to the same cart, pulling in tandem. When problems arise, my fiance and I confront them together, as a team. Even if those decisions can ultimately only be made by one of us (do I switch majors, should I take this new job?) the other person provides opinions, leading questions, support, and ideas about how to best handle the situation.

Phong, congratulations on reaching a decision you are both happy with, and thank you for clarifying you don't subscribe to the "No Girls Allowed Pants Club". If you live with your parents, it makes more sense that it would profoundly impact them if you left. All the best to you and your wife.

[CK&Tydi 0]

I feel compelled to stand up for those in the beauty field. Yes, you can get a job in the field without a college education, but any of the jobs in this field require skill and lots of knowledge...from chemistry to biology. The notion of the 'mindless dropouts who are bad influences' is not really what comprises the beauty industry as many take their careers very seriously.

Do I sound defensive? Prolly. I have been a licensed nail technician for over 10 years. I worked all through college doing so...all the while filing tax returns at 17 of over $40k a year. No, it's not great money for a full grown adult, but that was at the start of my career . At the time I left the industry, I was nationally ranked, as well as having had my work published in many trade magazines. I spent countless hours researching, improving my craft, traveling to go to shows to learn about the newest products, techniques, etc...and also being req'd by the state to take courses on physiology and the makeup of communicable diseases.

I talk about myself because I feel like I am a good example of many in the field...not a hs dropout, not stupid nor a bad influence....and one who regarded the profession as a career, not just some job.

And yes, I continued to work in the field AFTER college because the money was incomparable.

So although that is not what this thread is about....please don't make disparaging comments about the people in the beauty industry. It's a hard job...and it DOES require intelligence.

Forgot to mention that in my previous post - indeed, the beauty industry is NOT something "bimbo only" and it requires dedication and continuous improvement and learning! Hey! I have a couple of friends in the field and they make more money than I do teaching in higher education!

One thing you guy dont get it, especially in this Hair /Nail feild......... Really troublesome, i seen a lot of family broke a part when the wife worked in this envirmont down here in California..............

Phong, better off send you wife to school for different career..... good luck bro.

[chuckandkim 0]

I'm all convinced now to sit back and let you take wheel!!! I'm now accepting my new name: "sexist" and woman hater! Thank you!

It still doesn't change the fact what we discussed here: 3 months residency in the US does not qualify someone to decide where it's best to live for the USC. I'm not sure by being married to a psychologist will justify to have a better understanding of the complexity of social and gender equality in the North America, left alone something comes from the EAST and far east regions. Personally, a psychologist can only help you so much and in some case, get you into more trouble than you bargain for in the long run.

There is nothing sexist about "USC knows best where to have his/her family living in the country", not the immigrant!

There is nothing wrong with "USC should know he/she will have to pay the bills for ALL expenses once the immigrant decides they need to move and at whatever cost"

There is no hatred nor sexist in saying: "behind every GREAT MAN is a GREAT WOMAN". It's a higher standard and respect for women, my wife in particular. It's just plain arrogant for me to say I am a successful businessman and professional nowadays because of me myself and I, it's my wife who pushes me and the ultimate drive for my success. So, please, lay off the psych books and live a little!

I do agree with you: codependency is NOT a good way to describe or to have a marriage relationship. Why does it sound psychotic and no, it's not the way Kim and I have our relationship in this marriage. What is a good word to describe it where we both surrender out past and build our new relationship based on the new foundation of trust and supportive system? We still maintain certain level of independently thinking and decision making but colectively, we still share and compromise to the point. However, someone has to make decision on certain issue otherwise it will be an on going discussion on whether or not we will buy this new couch in desertsand color or not! Come time to make decision, mine will be: I'll get what you like!

[jundp 191]

Phong,

I am so glad that you and Mai have been able to talk about this and work things out. In the end, anything we say to you means nothing And what happens between you and your wife is the most important thing.

I wish both of you continued success and blessings.

J

[CK&Tydi 0]

Common you guys, we are here to help each other out. We are not here for a fight. Each people own their own opinion, If we she some good points, we can pick it up and learn. Bad point then just disregard it.. Peace everyone. Hope Phong will pick out the best answer for his situation........

[athena_ny 1]

Wow, what have I started and where do I begin?

To answer some general questions that were asked:

-We're currently living with my parents

-Mai's college degree is in English (issued in Vietnam so isn't worth the paper it's printed on)

-Mai and I went to Seattle together last month for a week so she has been there

On gender-based roles:

I've lived here my entire life so I'm not huge on a designated "wearer of the pants". However, under the circumstances, I believe I'm much more qualified than her to be making these types of decisions right now. As the primary bread-winner (currently), I feel I'm entitled to voice my opinion. Also, she's making her decisions based primarily on emotion and has not really thought everything out. If she were to move right now, she would be a burden on her sister and I would feel very irresponsible if I were to let that happen.

On the beauty industry:

It's generally a bad idea to make generalizations I beautician/cosmetology license in WA state requires over 3000 hours of schooling and work experience. I've seen some of the course material and it looks like a biology textbook straight out of college. Calling these people uneducated would be... an uneducated statement, ha! That said, there is no license required to be a nail technician in most states and as a result, you get many uneducated immigrants flocking to the field. It's a very lucrative business that requires little initial investment. However, I find many of the people to be cutthroat and wouldn't want my wife working in such a hostile environment.

-

This weekend, I basically told Mai that I think it's way to early for her to be making another life decision so soon after she made such a huge one by moving to the U.S. I told her that she is making a decision based on a single week's vacation and that visiting a place is much different than actually living there - the charm wears off real quick. Also, any move to Seattle would be one without me since it's simply not possible for me to move right now. I told her that I want her to go back to school for at least two years and if she still wants to move, I will be more than happy to consider it then. By then, she will have gained some more perspective. She seemed happy with this decision and agrees with my assessment.

[dial1010usa 0]

I would suggest you to keep her busy and send her to school. I'm an Asian and understand the culture and how important parents for us. Asian people believes to live in joint family, and there are always +/_. Do the best you feel like it? Ask her why she wants to move to Seattle? If the only reason is to live close to her sister, will you able to leave your parents? Can her sister move near you?

There are lots of things you need to consider before you move. You guys need to sit and talk and sort out what is best for both of you and your parents.

Someone mentioned that you need to make her happy. Isn't chidrens responisibility to make their parents happy as well?

Here are my 2 cents.

[donkim 0]

"Hair and Nail carreer will fit right with those HS dropout" STUPID TALK . THINK TWICE BEFORE SAY IT.

Nothing new here Phong!

All wives who move here from VN, with respectable job or what not back in Vietnam will feel inadequate and useless from seating at home all day and do nothing all week. My wife's uncle lives in Houston, I asked her if she wants to move there if the opportunity comes up, she responds: I move where you move! And that is how it should be! My response to hers: doesn't matter where we live, as long as we have each other. The possibilty of us moving to Japan or back to VN is also included in our future plan.

But after 3 months being here Phong, you need to make it clear to her that it is NOT easy, eventhough logistically speaking it is, to move! She has known nothing yet about America and here she's already making demand, planning for her great career in the future? Give me a break! I must agree with you about the move may be seen by relatives and parents as a huge betray on your part It's an Asian cultural mentality that we'll never understand. Asian parents take it as an insult if their children don't want to live in the same house/town/area the parents do. Dishonoring, in fact!

my thoughts to you: explain to her, you will think about it, for now she need to focus on getting her GC and getting her EAD and all the legal documents first before thinking about moving somewhere else! Hair Stylist, great career for a HS Drop-out, not someone with College education, IMO! Plus, from the first 3 months until the 2nd or 3rd anniversary, she will change her mind on her future career. Ask your vietnamese brothers in Asia - East and Pacific board, they'll tell you! So, just take your time and guide her through this confusing and all so too new environment for her!!!!

Good luck and tell her we can visit your sister next month but not moving there!

chuck and kim

Chuck and Kim, I do agree with you on this issue too. Hair and Nail carreer will fit right with those HS dropout. It is a bad environment to have your newly wed wife to be in. People in that work environment will give her bad influent and more trouble will come when she works there. FOr the most part, she just want to be close to her Sister. Phong you have to explain to her, Moving to different place is not as easy as she thinks.. Not like in Vietnam, it will involve a lot of stuff. IT's not like taking a vacation, few months off to some places.

From her point, the excuse she got is not reasonable enough. I know you try to be very supportive to her but have she thought about you and both of your future together not because she got bore and just want to find the happiness for herself only.

Just take your time to guide her and send her back to school or get something for her to do. Have a baby then it will kill all her free time. YOu have to explain to her, even if she go to Seatle. Her sister got her own family to worry about, they will have enough time for her.

If she loves you, she will have to learn how to compromise. That's how realationship will work.