Should my spouse withdraw citizenship application (N-400)?

[northusa44 4]

We are facing quite the difficult decision at the moment. My spouse filed a N-400 this fall and is due to have the naturalization interview within the next couple of weeks. Since we began the immigration process years ago, our goal has been to eventually reunite our whole family (my US family and my spouse's foreign parents and sibling) here in the US. This obviously seemed quite likely before 2016. When making the decision to submit the N-400 this fall, we still felt fairly confident that court decisions would mean we could apply under pre-2016 admissability rules. This is obviously not the case now following the Supreme Court stay a couple of weeks ago and planned Feb 24 implementation of the DHS public charge rule change(my lawyer wrote today to say it looks like DOS will implement the same rule change Feb 24 as well; didn't even realize until recently that DOS implemented 'lesser' public charge changes in 2018).

 

My spouse is from a country that does not allow dual citizenship--i.e. if my spouse goes through with the interview and becomes a US citizen they would in all likelihood be forfeiting the right to go back and work most jobs in their country (since foreigners are only eligible for a few job categories). We have always agreed that if my spouse's parents cannot come here to the States on green cards we will go back to live with them (I can get a job as an English teacher, while my spouse would be unlikely to be able to given the fact that English is not native language). My spouse's parents are both in their late 50s, and do not have high school degrees. They have little savings but do own two homes (though showing title might be an issue). They have a good work history (they are cooks), but may or may not be above the $21000 threshold for income + assets (will be close) I am a doctoral student here in the US, and so while we have good income potential, our current income is not high (~50,000 a year for the household). We also used Obamacare until partway through 2017 (have usedprivate insurance since then), and so still need to wait a few months to get out of the 3 year public benefits use period under the new public charge rule. My parents-in-law- would be applying for embassy processing of the permanent resident applications.

 

We are currently leaning towards writing to USCIS to abandon my spouse's N-400 application. Our lawyer has told us that in the end we are only out 1170 dollars (the amount we will have to pay to apply in the future), and it seems wise to wait and see how the new public charge laws are being applied, how court cases turn out and/or what the election results are in November before deciding whether to go through with the application again.

 

We are enormously disappointed, and thus the post--anyone disagree with me that my parents-in-law are at best a 50/50 bet of being admitted and given green cards? If anyone has reason to feel more optimistic, would love to hear the reasoning, as we truly do want to reunite our family here in the US if at all possible.

 

Thank you very much in advance.

[Boiler 46,005]

Well putting aside the Public Charge issue how did you intend to fund his parents retiring to the US? From the little you mention how were they to be able to afford to do so?

 

You mentioned sibling, presumably you are aware that petitioning for them is a very long process.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Boiler

[northusa44 4]

My parents-in-law plan to start a restaurant when they come here (they have owned restaurants before ), and work for at least ten years, if not more. They are wholly uninterested in coming here to sit around and do nothing,

 

It also seems unlikely, given the fact that I will have a PhD and my spouse a MS, that our family income will remain at its current level for very long.

 

Families like ours (as well as those in considerably 'worse' circumstances) have long found a way to make things work in the US. And, to be quite frank, the question of how we plan to make things work is largely (though admittedly not completely) immaterial to the query, which is, of course, regarding whether they are likely to be admitted.

Edited February 12, 2020 by northusa44

[northusa44 4]

* sibling app would be in the future, not now (and well-aware of the long process)

[designguy 1,179]

How will they get health insurance

[Boiler 46,005]

From a timing perspective they will not interview until sometime is 2021, presumably your financial situation would be better and they can also show their business plan for the Restaurant, obviously not cheap starting a Restaurant and at 60 well lets just say I wish them well, not an easy life.

 

 

[northusa44 4]

6 minutes ago, designguy said:

How will they get health insurance

Am I incorrect that the health insurance pre-requirement is currently on hold?

 

In either event, suffice it to say that we do intend to have health insurance for them, have considered prices for regular (non emergency) plans , and will pay for it ourselves if need be. Luckily we live in a relatively low-cost state.

 

But our ability to pay for them is not the question, at least not directly (if you knew me personally, you would know that we will pay, and without recourse to public benefits). The question is whether I'm incorrect in assessing our chances at 50/50 or less. In that sense, we probably share similar concerns regarding how the application could be viewed by at least some officers.

 

[designguy 1,179]

Health insurance can cost thousands of dollars per month per person depending on the age. If someone basically at retirement age this can weigh against them, in the sense that they could be seen as possibly becoming a public charge.

 

No one here can tell you if its 10/90 50/50. The only certainty is that if you dont try, the chances are 0. You file a petition and then make a case to the IO and then based on the circumstances they will evaluate. Its also probably a year and a half till they would interview. A lot can change in that time.

 

 

 

FYI for the siblings you are looking at 15-20 years ish

[Boiler 46,005]

Sounds like you have your bases covered so I am not sure there is an issue.

[northusa44 4]

Boiler and Designguy:

 

Thank you both for the follow-up answers.

Designguy: I was aware of the high insurance costs and sibling wait (my spouse's country is not quite 15-20, though still quite a few), but wasn't aware that interview is likely to be in 2021. That is quite useful/helpful information--thank you!

 

Boiler--Thank you as well. Scary thing at the moment is simply not knowing how new rules will be implemented. Would not be an issue if my spouse's country allowed dual citizenship, but they don't, which makes it quite a difficult decision.

 

Will see what others have to say. At the moment, still thinking it makes sense to drop the app until there is more info on how this is all being implemented in practice (or until the election). Of course, it is ultimately my spouse's decision--I'm just trying to be helpful and collect opinions/info. So thank you all again. Will look forward to further thoughts by you or others.

 

 

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

1 hour ago, northusa44 said:

 

And, to be quite frank, the question of how we plan to make things work is largely (though admittedly not completely) immaterial to the query, which is, of course, regarding whether they are likely to be admitted.

Actually, it’s germane - it all goes to public charge, which now looks more specifically at the work experience of the intending immigrant.

 

Often quoted figures say 60% of restaurants fail in their first year in the US, and about 80% have gone under by their fifth year. It’s a tough business. I’ve seen a relative lose a huge amount of capital this way. It’s especially a tough business in a new country, where they may be many different ways of doing business, making connections with suppliers, etc. I know starting cheap restaurants is a “common” type of way for immigrants to make a living, but I do agree with boiler, that the older you are the riskier it is. Sorry if this sounds negative - just trying to be realistic. If they can get employer-provided health insurance, simply getting jobs as cooks may be less stressful and less risky for them, if perhaps not as fulfilling.
 

On health insurance, regardless whether or not the visa application requires it... they need it. You can’t be approaching your golden years without health insurance in this country. And it will be expensive for them. I know of more than a few people who have actually gone back to their home countries after retirement, mostly worried about being able to afford healthcare as they age. 

[northusa44 4]

51 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

Actually, it’s germane - it all goes to public charge, which now looks more specifically at the work experience of the intending immigrant.

 

Often quoted figures say 60% of restaurants fail in their first year in the US, and about 80% have gone under by their fifth year. It’s a tough business. I’ve seen a relative lose a huge amount of capital this way. It’s especially a tough business in a new country, where they may be many different ways of doing business, making connections with suppliers, etc. I know starting cheap restaurants is a “common” type of way for immigrants to make a living, but I do agree with boiler, that the older you are the riskier it is. Sorry if this sounds negative - just trying to be realistic. If they can get employer-provided health insurance, simply getting jobs as cooks may be less stressful and less risky for them, if perhaps not as fulfilling.
 

On health insurance, regardless whether or not the visa application requires it... they need it. You can’t be approaching your golden years without health insurance in this country. And it will be expensive for them. I know of more than a few people who have actually gone back to their home countries after retirement, mostly worried about being able to afford healthcare as they age. 

SusieQQQ: Thank you once more for the thoughtful response, and I'm sure some have not thought of  issues such as healthcare. We, however, have, at least to the extent reasonable regarding a future plan uncertain to come to fruition. (We would never have them here without insurance, and will pay for it ourselves if necessary. They plan to be cooking for the next ten years whether here or in their home country. And, do remember that a green card represents an intent to establish a life/residence here, but allows for changes of plans. If they come here for two to three years and the economics do not work, they can always return home. The more likely 'return' scenario (though still not very likely), however, is that they come here for two to three years and decide to return because they simply do not like it here. But this is a family matter--what is not a family matter is whether they pass their interviews. As stated above, I unfortunately have my doubts.)h

 

More pertinently, thank you very much for the suggestion regarding working for another restaurant. Indeed that is an option, though not the first one (this being starting their own restaurant). I also find it a bit unlikely to think they could secure an offer of health insurance and employment from another restaurant prior to them coming to the US (they are not gourmet chefs). But a good thought, and will consider it more--thank you!

 

I continue to look forward to more replies regarding the question itself (i.e. regarding whether I am wrong in my assessment that they may be at high risk for a denial under current rules, and that it may thus be best for us to wait). And, again, thank you to all who have replied.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by northusa44

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

4 minutes ago, northusa44 said:

If they come here for two to three years and the economics do not work, they can always return home. The more likely 'return' scenario (though still not very likely), however, is that they come here for two to three years and decide to return because they simply do not like it here. 

That puts you back to square one of the risk scenario of your spouse losing her other citizenship and her parents being back home.

[SusieQQQ 11,587]

2 hours ago, northusa44 said:

was aware of the ... sibling wait (my spouse's country is not quite 15-20

Oh, on this, be aware past waits are shorter than future ones as the waitlists keep lengthening. There is a maximum number of F4 (sibling) visas that can be issued each year, but the waitlist increases mean that those joining at the back end up with longer waits than those at the front.
 

Example: in 2010,  the wait for F4 visas had been around ten years to become current; as you may know, that has currently stretched to nearly 14 years, and it will likely be very easily somewhere between 15-20 for those applications going in now. 

[northusa44 4]

16 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

That puts you back to square one of the risk scenario of your spouse losing her other citizenship and her parents being back home.

It does. But as noted, it is an unlikely scenario, and one that we are both prepared to 'risk' because we do want to make our home in the US if possible  (and because my mother-in-law has been here on a tourist visa for a longerish stay and liked it). It also goes without saying that I have an unusually strong relationship with my parents-in-laws and am all-in regardless of whether we ultimately stay here or have to move back.

 

The scenario that would upset us much more is my spouse giving up citizenship and then having my parents-in-laws' green card applications rejected, so that giving up the citizenship did not result in even a chance of us all making our home here.

 

A strange and frustrating case admittedly (and I haven't even gotten to the fact that my PhD research is on a topic for which many foreign researchers have been banned from visiting my spouse's country--if we do wind up moving back there I will either give up the PhD altogether or not publish the research and work as an English teacher), but the crux of the question is whether anyone feels we should be much more confident than we are regarding my parents-in-laws application under current rules. Sounds like no, but will continue to check responses for the next day or two, just in case.

 

As I wrote earlier, abandoning the application would be frustrating from a money/time perspective, but not the end of the world, as we would still be able to apply in the future.

 

I have a feeling we will all have more permanent answers to such questions later this year.