Does illegal immigration upset you big time too?

[LaL 418]

and what exactly DO you feel? just that they should stay? do some research, look over some laws, read people's stories, read the FACTS.

I have done my research and I have my facts straight, thanks, and just so you know exactly where I stand (since you asked), I belong to a political action group who is lobbying for family unification. I am pro-family, but that does NOT mean I am anti-illegal, and far from it.

[smoke20 0]

to answer your topic title in the most simplistic of ways :

Does illegal immigration upset you big time too?

not nearly as much as it seems to bother you.

nice how a mod-who should remain neutral- is trying to PO bowflex as well

[Jenn! 918]

mrsserendipity, we're beating a dead horse. noone is going to change anyones minds in here. its obvious some people don't understand the difference between a "politcal view point" & the law. i wonder how many people with the "amnesty for all" stance on this issue, actually live in a place affected by illegal immigrants. i live in the south, i see it first hand not on a news show. i think if some of these peoples lives were affected by the illegal population their "political point of view" or sence of right & wrong would be different.

I think it's wrong to assume that people who do not feel the same way that you do about things are somehow naive or have not been unaffected to the degree that you have. And thank you very much, but I "understand the difference between a "politcal view point" & the law". Did it ever occur to you that some people might not agree with our existing laws? Maybe it makes you feel better to think that the only explanation for people not being so angry and resentful towards illegal immigrants is that they don't understand the issue?

In the same way that you don't understand my lack of outrage, I don't quite understand your level of outrage.

[mrsserendipity 0]

mrsserendipity, we're beating a dead horse. noone is going to change anyones minds in here. its obvious some people don't understand the difference between a "politcal view point" & the law. i wonder how many people with the "amnesty for all" stance on this issue, actually live in a place affected by illegal immigrants. i live in the south, i see it first hand not on a news show. i think if some of these peoples lives were affected by the illegal population their "political point of view" or sence of right & wrong would be different.

true. i just don't see what they're trying to say. they don't seem to even have knowledge of what the immigration bill terms were. like i just mentioned above... they b*tched when they heard they had to go back to apply for the visa. they're not looking to just get citizenship, they want it all to be fast and easy.

and what about the people to come after this bill if it passes. are they aware what happens then? you think people will come illegally say hi here i am, then go back to their countries like the bill suggested and apply? of course not! who would come here just to have to go back? no one thinks about that. none of it will work. the illegal immigrants will not accept anything but amnesty. they were thrown a bone and they just bitched.

[udlike2no2 0]

Here is some food for thought. This was written by a retired US Border Patrolman. It really made me stop and think. I actually took the time to go research some of his points and he is dead on.

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?

For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There have already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here?

There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010.

We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard

U.S. Border Patrol (RET)

Hereford, Arizona

He served this country first in the Army for 30 years and then 27 years as a border patrolman.

Wow this is great in my book it is right on the money thank you for the post.

BTW I still havnt seen any one respond to:

What would you say to a poor inner-city person who has a poor family and are not doing well and has not much food, clothing, medical or shelter and is a US citizen. So now they go and break the law and sell drugs to help there family and get arrested?

1.) Would say lets give them asylum?

Or

2.) Would you say they had other ways of doing things right and legal?

Pick? 1 or 2

[Cassie 8]

mrsserendipity, we're beating a dead horse. noone is going to change anyones minds in here. its obvious some people don't understand the difference between a "politcal view point" & the law. i wonder how many people with the "amnesty for all" stance on this issue, actually live in a place affected by illegal immigrants. i live in the south, i see it first hand not on a news show. i think if some of these peoples lives were affected by the illegal population their "political point of view" or sence of right & wrong would be different.

*rolls her eyes*

I'm still more ticked off at the companies that break laws every day by employing illegals, and the US government who on a continual basis can't get their thumbs out of their collective arses to come to a decent solution to the whole problem, than I am at people who are taking advantage of the very wide loopholes.

BTW, I live in the same state as you, and I am curious how your life is personally affected by illegal immigrants. I am serious about this request.

[mrsserendipity 0]

mrsserendipity, we're beating a dead horse. noone is going to change anyones minds in here. its obvious some people don't understand the difference between a "politcal view point" & the law. i wonder how many people with the "amnesty for all" stance on this issue, actually live in a place affected by illegal immigrants. i live in the south, i see it first hand not on a news show. i think if some of these peoples lives were affected by the illegal population their "political point of view" or sence of right & wrong would be different.

I think it's wrong to assume that people who do not feel the same way that you do about things are somehow naive or have not been unaffected to the degree that you have. And thank you very much, but I "understand the difference between a "politcal view point" & the law". Did it ever occur to you that some people might not agree with our existing laws? Maybe it makes you feel better to think that the only explanation for people not being so angry and resentful towards illegal immigrants is that they don't understand the issue?

In the same way that you don't understand my lack of outrage, I don't quite understand your level of outrage.

what law is it that you do not agree with? that the US is a COUNTRY and should not have their borders open to anyone who just wants to fly or walk in? how safe would you feel if anyone and everyone would just be allowed to come and go into the US as they please? you don't agree that a country should protect it's borders? the US is indeed a country. countries have borders. countries have laws. you do not like the law, move to a different country. what are you trying to say? what would you like the law to say?

[Jenn! 918]

you do not like the law, move to a different country.

Seems you're the one who has a problem with the status quo. Maybe you should move. (ETA: this is sarcasm because I think the idea of telling someone that if they don't like such and such about America they should move is completely asinine)

And yes, I am for a more liberal overall immigration policy. Sorry that makes you so angry.

Edited June 15, 2007 by jenn3539

[mrsserendipity 0]

Here is some food for thought. This was written by a retired US Border Patrolman. It really made me stop and think. I actually took the time to go research some of his points and he is dead on.

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?

For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There have already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here?

There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010.

We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard

U.S. Border Patrol (RET)

Hereford, Arizona

He served this country first in the Army for 30 years and then 27 years as a border patrolman.

Wow this is great in my book it is right on the money thank you for the post.

BTW I still havnt seen any one respond to:

What would you say to a poor inner-city person who has a poor family and are not doing well and has not much food, clothing, medical or shelter and is a US citizen. So now they go and break the law and sell drugs to help there family and get arrested?

1.) Would say lets give them asylum?

Or

2.) Would you say they had other ways of doing things right and legal?

Pick? 1 or 2

no one has responded to 99% of my posts either. they feel a certain way but cannot see the whole picture, cannot go beyond the issue to the bigger picture and the problems that are being just swept under the rug. the US should not change a law about ILLEGAL immigration. people are already abusing the system. they change the definition of ILLEGAL in this situation, they will have groups from all walks of life marching and trying to change the definition. in fact, it seems like they don't like that word at all and just let everyone assume the LEGAL status. they do not see how that WIL affect the safety and security of the country.

[mrsserendipity 0]

you do not like the law, move to a different country.

Seems you're the one who has a problem with the status quo. Maybe you should move. (ETA: this is sarcasm because I think the idea of telling someone that if they don't like such and such about America they should move is completely asinine)

And yes, I am for a more liberal overall immigration policy. Sorry that makes you so angry.

you do not make me angry. i thought we were all just having a discussion?

who's status quo? has the bill passed? that doesn't make any sense. you're the one who's not happy with how things are.

[mrsserendipity 0]

what exactly is it those of you who are pro-illegal-immigration want the law TO say?

what about those who come in the US after the bill if it's passed? they will just show up illegal say hi i'm illegal, then go back to their country and apply? hah

[Jenn! 918]

you do not like the law, move to a different country.

Seems you're the one who has a problem with the status quo. Maybe you should move. (ETA: this is sarcasm because I think the idea of telling someone that if they don't like such and such about America they should move is completely asinine)

And yes, I am for a more liberal overall immigration policy. Sorry that makes you so angry.

you do not make me angry. i thought we were all just having a discussion?

who's status quo? has the bill passed? that doesn't make any sense. you're the one who's not happy with how things are.

My point is that illegal immigration does not get me all riled up. The status quo is the current state of affairs, i.e. the presence of 12 million illegal immigrants. Presumably, you're not ok with that.

As for making you angry, sorry I jumped to conclusions. But as soon as someone tells me to get out of my country, I assume that I have hit a nerve.

[mrsserendipity 0]

you do not like the law, move to a different country.

Seems you're the one who has a problem with the status quo. Maybe you should move. (ETA: this is sarcasm because I think the idea of telling someone that if they don't like such and such about America they should move is completely asinine)

And yes, I am for a more liberal overall immigration policy. Sorry that makes you so angry.

you do not make me angry. i thought we were all just having a discussion?

who's status quo? has the bill passed? that doesn't make any sense. you're the one who's not happy with how things are.

My point is that illegal immigration does not get me all riled up. The status quo is the current state of affairs, i.e. the presence of 12 million illegal immigrants. Presumably, you're not ok with that.

As for making you angry, sorry I jumped to conclusions. But as soon as someone tells me to get out of my country, I assume that I have hit a nerve.

my problem is with the immigration bill. i feel for some of these people. i do not however think they should be given amnesty. there will ALWAYS be illegal immigration, that is not my problem. my problem is how the US wants to deal with them.

the bill is ridiculous. can we agree with that? it doesn't make any sense. i realize they're trying to change some parts, but they want the illegal immigrants to first go back to their countries and apply. they will never do that.

i wasn't literally telling you to leave.

quick edit: i think if their main goal is to become citizens, they should've been happy with the bill, but instead they bitched, it wasn't easy and fast enough.

then what happens to the people who come after the bill if it passes?

Edited June 15, 2007 by mrsserendipity

[udlike2no2 0]

Here is some food for thought. This was written by a retired US Border Patrolman. It really made me stop and think. I actually took the time to go research some of his points and he is dead on.

Dear Senator Frist:

There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.

3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.

4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.

5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.

7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?

10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?

For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There have already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here?

There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010.

We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.

David J. Stoddard

U.S. Border Patrol (RET)

Hereford, Arizona

He served this country first in the Army for 30 years and then 27 years as a border patrolman.

Wow this is great in my book it is right on the money thank you for the post.

BTW I still havnt seen any one respond to:

What would you say to a poor inner-city person who has a poor family and are not doing well and has not much food, clothing, medical or shelter and is a US citizen. So now they go and break the law and sell drugs to help there family and get arrested?

1.) Would say lets give them asylum?

Or

2.) Would you say they had other ways of doing things right and legal?

Pick? 1 or 2

no one has responded to 99% of my posts either. they feel a certain way but cannot see the whole picture, cannot go beyond the issue to the bigger picture and the problems that are being just swept under the rug. the US should not change a law about ILLEGAL immigration. people are already abusing the system. they change the definition of ILLEGAL in this situation, they will have groups from all walks of life marching and trying to change the definition. in fact, it seems like they don't like that word at all and just let everyone assume the LEGAL status. they do not see how that WIL affect the safety and security of the country.

I am not sure if I am right but it seems that you where not born a American citizen but now live in the US and have done all the proper things to be here right?

And if this is the case I applaud you for your view point coming from someone not born here. Americans are made up of all people from all over the world and that’s what helps make this the country it now is. But what I feel is even greater is that coming here like you did the right way and saying it like it is. Is the real definition of being American. Not all the paper work that says what one my be.

[Cassie 8]

you do not like the law, move to a different country.

Seems you're the one who has a problem with the status quo. Maybe you should move. (ETA: this is sarcasm because I think the idea of telling someone that if they don't like such and such about America they should move is completely asinine)

And yes, I am for a more liberal overall immigration policy. Sorry that makes you so angry.

you do not make me angry. i thought we were all just having a discussion?

who's status quo? has the bill passed? that doesn't make any sense. you're the one who's not happy with how things are.

My point is that illegal immigration does not get me all riled up. The status quo is the current state of affairs, i.e. the presence of 12 million illegal immigrants. Presumably, you're not ok with that.

As for making you angry, sorry I jumped to conclusions. But as soon as someone tells me to get out of my country, I assume that I have hit a nerve.

my problem is with the immigration bill. i feel for some of these people. i do not however think they should be given amnesty. there will ALWAYS be illegal immigration, that is not my problem. my problem is how the US wants to deal with them.

the bill is ridiculous. can we with that? it doesn't make any sense. i realize they're trying to change some parts, but they want the illegal immigrants to first go back to their countries and apply. they will never do that.

i wasn't literally telling you to leave.

other people have said the same thing here in the VJ forums before, and they meant it. 'Tis a natural reaction to take it at face value.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Cassie