Does illegal immigration upset you big time too?

[Cassie 8]

On one hand, I grinch a little bit about going through the process legally and they don't, blah blah. On the other hand, I honestly get more cross with US companies perpetuating the historical cycle of employing illegals under the table. Breaking the cycle would help.

[bowflex 0]

I believe that illegal immigration is a problem, because it sets up a very bad situation where the wealth and growth of the United States is dependent upon having a permanent Hispanic, illegal underclass. Societies like that are not stable.

I think that any reasonable solution will secure the borders (though I think a fence is dumb), work with Mexico to improve their economy (cut off the supply), punish employers who break the laws (cut off the demand), give ICE the resources to enforce overstays, and give a path to citizenship for those already here. I think that if any one of those conditions isn't met, any sort of reform will fail.

But I don't think, for reasons documented elsewhere, that I have a right to be more upset because I did it legally. Honestly, the requirements for a legal marriage-based visa are so low. I had to prove that I met C. once in the previous two years, and once we marry, he'll have a green card number automatically generated for him. One meeting. More or less automatic green card. And that makes him more worthy than someone whose parents brought them here as an infant and has lived here for 20 years? Behold the power of sex.

I don't find the argument "I had to do it legally" at all compelling. This process has been a royal pain in the ###, but I don't know. It just doesn't make me all that angry. "Are you jealous because I am generous?" and all that.

More than just going through the process myself, I'm more angry with this because of what I've seen my wife's family go through. I previously posted that I realize that most of us have a relative cake-walk with this. My wife and I had some hopeless times with the process, but in the end it took about a year and a month. My wife's family immigrated to the US and was documented and did everything legally for 15 years, then were denied and were promptly to be deported back to a wartorn area that has since seen their former country break up THREE times! Her family put in tens of thousands of dollars, worked hard to own a home, put their daughters through school, and just live the American dream, but they weren't allowed to live this on, and now they're again going through the same thing in Canada.

Heck even a family friend of her parents got deported, hired a lawyer and got back, but has been visited by Homeland Security and almost got deported again before she could produce all the paperwork showing they were allowed to reenter. She's not even allowed to work for 2 whole years for some reason, but they still are thankful they're back in the country and have that ability.

You can't possibly tell me that anyone deserves what my wife's family or their friend has gone through, but if they had to go through all of those problems, no one should be exempt from it simply because they decide they don't want to go through the process legally. I agreed with every solution you stated except for giving those who are already here a path to citizenship, because there is no difference in my mind between breaking the law 20 years ago or doing it today. Who's to say that someone sneaking in today doesn't have it decided that they'll work their butts off for 12 hours a day just like the person who already got in? The time that someone broke the law really shouldn't have an impact on whether or not they should be here. The bottom line is the law was broken and it's time to hold those who did it accountable, at least to me.

On one hand, I grinch a little bit about going through the process legally and they don't, blah blah. On the other hand, I honestly get more cross with US companies perpetuating the historical cycle of employing illegals under the table. Breaking the cycle would help.

I could not agree more. Any company who knowingly hires illegal or undocumented workers should be fined so heavily that it simply wouldn't make sense to do it. Someone can be charged for knowingly harboring a fugitive, so I don't see the changing of the law to include that being too hard to do.

[Lance27 19]

This is just my presonal opinion... I think what this thread should have been called is "does the US govt. policy on immigration upset you big time too?"

You are mad since your wife and her family did things the right way and still got deported and people from Mexico and Latin America come in undocumented and can live and work in the US. Why get angry at the poor people and not the US govt for not cracking down on those big companies that hire undocumented workers and the US govt for not having better control over the borders?

I know that you and your wife went through a rough time and have been seperated for over a year but are now re-united. I have been away from my wife for about 11 months now but eventually we will be together. I will never be angry at some poor person who is/was just looking for a better life.

I believe that illegal immigration is a problem, because it sets up a very bad situation where the wealth and growth of the United States is dependent upon having a permanent Hispanic, illegal underclass. Societies like that are not stable.

I think that any reasonable solution will secure the borders (though I think a fence is dumb), work with Mexico to improve their economy (cut off the supply), punish employers who break the laws (cut off the demand), give ICE the resources to enforce overstays, and give a path to citizenship for those already here. I think that if any one of those conditions isn't met, any sort of reform will fail.

But I don't think, for reasons documented elsewhere, that I have a right to be more upset because I did it legally. Honestly, the requirements for a legal marriage-based visa are so low. I had to prove that I met C. once in the previous two years, and once we marry, he'll have a green card number automatically generated for him. One meeting. More or less automatic green card. And that makes him more worthy than someone whose parents brought them here as an infant and has lived here for 20 years? Behold the power of sex.

I don't find the argument "I had to do it legally" at all compelling. This process has been a royal pain in the ###, but I don't know. It just doesn't make me all that angry. "Are you jealous because I am generous?" and all that.

More than just going through the process myself, I'm more angry with this because of what I've seen my wife's family go through. I previously posted that I realize that most of us have a relative cake-walk with this. My wife and I had some hopeless times with the process, but in the end it took about a year and a month. My wife's family immigrated to the US and was documented and did everything legally for 15 years, then were denied and were promptly to be deported back to a wartorn area that has since seen their former country break up THREE times! Her family put in tens of thousands of dollars, worked hard to own a home, put their daughters through school, and just live the American dream, but they weren't allowed to live this on, and now they're again going through the same thing in Canada.

Heck even a family friend of her parents got deported, hired a lawyer and got back, but has been visited by Homeland Security and almost got deported again before she could produce all the paperwork showing they were allowed to reenter. She's not even allowed to work for 2 whole years for some reason, but they still are thankful they're back in the country and have that ability.

You can't possibly tell me that anyone deserves what my wife's family or their friend has gone through, but if they had to go through all of those problems, no one should be exempt from it simply because they decide they don't want to go through the process legally. I agreed with every solution you stated except for giving those who are already here a path to citizenship, because there is no difference in my mind between breaking the law 20 years ago or doing it today. Who's to say that someone sneaking in today doesn't have it decided that they'll work their butts off for 12 hours a day just like the person who already got in? The time that someone broke the law really shouldn't have an impact on whether or not they should be here. The bottom line is the law was broken and it's time to hold those who did it accountable, at least to me.

On one hand, I grinch a little bit about going through the process legally and they don't, blah blah. On the other hand, I honestly get more cross with US companies perpetuating the historical cycle of employing illegals under the table. Breaking the cycle would help.

I could not agree more. Any company who knowingly hires illegal or undocumented workers should be fined so heavily that it simply wouldn't make sense to do it. Someone can be charged for knowingly harboring a fugitive, so I don't see the changing of the law to include that being too hard to do.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Lance27

[udlike2no2 0]

There are many things about this that bother me also, I understand that people want a better life who in the world doesn’t and that is all relative to what you my think that is. Some people in the US think if you don’t have 2 cars or a Cell phone that life is bad. We also have people here that are homeless that need help.

It all sounds so crazy to me and we would all love to be sympathetic to all people but big business could care less. It is no different than when they brought salves from Africa to work in the south again MONEY and BUSINESS lets call it the way it is and what ever benefits business they will push for. And why because big business think they deserve a better life to.

I agree that the illegal aliens here working want a better life and work very hard and maybe get paid less the US citizens do again business makes more. But did you ever think other than the SS that I have been paying into my whole life and the problems we might have in the future that if the let 15 million illegal aliens automatically have citizenship can now be a public charge. I have to file paper work that my loved one will not become a public charge to the US and for how long, till she becomes a US citizen with can take longer than 5 years doing it the right way!!!

Did you ever think that those very very hard working people that get very low wages illegally once become citizens can now get aid with might be better than the low hard working wages that they are getting know ( and so called become Americanized )

And lay around like so many people in America do now?????

Sorry but I have to end it here because the more I go on the more I think and the more I think the more I get mad so good luck to all you applicants doing thinks the right way and god bless.

BTW all of you I am sure that are worried about people starving people in other countries are sending money oversea to them right?

[smoke20 0]

I think the people who would probably be more versed on the topic of illegal immigrants would be any Native American

They know all too well about people setting up shop illegally in every corner of North America. So in a sense wqe are all illegal immigrants I guess

Just my view on this

The difference being you don't hear Native Americans griping about illegal this and illegal that. I'm not angry with the white man for coming here and tearing my ancestors from their homeland...nor do I consider them illegal but I do understand your point. For the most part, and to anyone who sees me I look white, but I'm more Native American than I am anything else. Sometimes I wish more education was available in our schools about who was actually here first...

Oh gawd, that gets me off on another tangent and I don't want to hijack this thread.

i don't mean to flame on anyone for giving their point of view, we are all intitled to our opinions. but, WHAT?

the US wasn't a nation until the war of independence. remember the constitution, declaration of independence things,etc.

and native americans didn't just appear in the americas. i'm pretty sure that their ansestory is traced back to mongolia & they migrated across the barring straight. so by the logic above we should as the squirrels & trees how they feel about illegal immigration. no illegal immigration is wrong and those that have done it are criminals. regardless of their reasons for doing it, they have broken the law of the nation not an unsettled territory

[Caladan 19]

It's hard to say, bowflex. I feel for your wife's family, but what seems to drive my sympathy is not that 'they did it legally' but that it's so damn hard to get political asylum. Increasing scrutiny on immigrants I fear only leads to more denials in asylum cases.

I think the time does matter. If we had the resources to deport people as soon as they crossed the border, I would say, 'deport!' It would be swift, certain, and just a few weeks out of their lives. But we don't, and deporting an otherwise honest hard-working person after twenty years doesn't seem just. (It doesn't seem just to deport your wife's family either, but deporting illegals won't make the asylum cases easier.) I don't think that deporting 11 million people is a realistic option.

Plus, it's hard to say what would happen if Yugoslavia had bordered the U.S. I can imagine that people might have been desperate enough to skip the border, too.

[bowflex 0]

This is just my presonal opinion... I think what this thread should have been called is "does the US govt. policy on immigration upset you big time too?"

You are mad since your wife and her family did things the right way and still got deported and people from Mexico and Latin America come in undocumented and can live and work in the US. Why get angry at the poor people and not the US govt for not cracking down on those big companies that hire undocumented workers and the US govt for not having better control over the borders?

I know that you and your wife went through a rough time and have been seperated for over a year but are now re-united. I have been away from my wife for about 11 months now but eventually we will be together. I will never be angry at some poor person who is/was just looking for a better life.

Blaming the system for someone breaking it doesn't make any sense to me. The folks who are entering illegally ALL know that it's against the law, no one thinks that it isn't. I'm angry at the people who purposely break the law but then justify it by saying they need a better life for their family. The government definitely needs to stiffen the penalties for the companies, but they also need to stiffen the penalties for the undocumented and illegal immigrants. I'd think something like liquidating all of the person's assets and any equities they've accrued by working in America illegally would start teaching people lessons. If they work their butts off but broke into the country, take everything from them and send them back. I realize this sounds insanely harsh, but this could show them that it is indeed breaking the law and our society doesn't take kindly to this.

I'm all for bettering one's life, but it must be done legally. Saying that because the American immigration system doesn't come down hard enough on criminals, so they should be allowed to break the law until it's fixed isn't logical.

It's hard to say, bowflex. I feel for your wife's family, but what seems to drive my sympathy is not that 'they did it legally' but that it's so damn hard to get political asylum. Increasing scrutiny on immigrants I fear only leads to more denials in asylum cases.

I think the time does matter. If we had the resources to deport people as soon as they crossed the border, I would say, 'deport!' It would be swift, certain, and just a few weeks out of their lives. But we don't, and deporting an otherwise honest hard-working person after twenty years doesn't seem just. (It doesn't seem just to deport your wife's family either, but deporting illegals won't make the asylum cases easier.) I don't think that deporting 11 million people is a realistic option.

Plus, it's hard to say what would happen if Yugoslavia had bordered the U.S. I can imagine that people might have been desperate enough to skip the border, too.

My wife's family could've EASILY fled the state of Michigan and gone into hiding when Homeland Security was finalizing the deportation proceedings, but they didn't, so I can say for fact they wouldn't have snuck into the country. They were already in the States, had a home they could've sold for enough money to start over somewhere new, and all have skills that would make them very employable, but they were moral people and did the right thing.

[LaL 418]

to answer your topic title in the most simplistic of ways :

Does illegal immigration upset you big time too?

not nearly as much as it seems to bother you.

[homesick_american 1]

I was reading in a local Detroit paper today that there are churches all over the USA giving protection to illegal immigrants, and the local police departments and Homeland Security offices aren't going into the churches to pick them up for fear of a public backlash. After going through the process and finally completing getting my wife back after a year ordeal, and seeing her family go through a much harder process for 15 years, this really gets to me.

Everyone here is spending the thousands of dollars and more importantly the insane amount of time it takes to do it the right way, going through the mental fatigue that hits us all, and these people dodge it all, and then get protected?!? If I hear the argument one more time that "It's going to split our family up and we can't be together," I'm going to puke. Everyone can be together in their original country while they file the correct paperwork to get in legally, and use all the benefits that come along with living in such a great country.

Sorry had to rant, I just don't understand the "pride" marches and everything claiming that sneaking into a country or living there illegally isn't breaking the law

I'm with you on that.

[Caladan 19]

Where are you going to get the money to beggar 11 million people and deport them? It's not as though we're going to suspend due process and just run a truck around picking up everyone who looks Hispanic or suitably brown (plenty of illegal immigrants aren't Hispanic, yet oddly none of the rhetoric seems to worry about them.) As I'm sure you know from your wife's circumstances, people have a right to a hearing, they have a right to appeal the hearing, if they lose that, then there's a deportation order and until that time, we can't just throw people in jail. If you're advocating no due process, then the miscarriage of justice is likely to be far, far worse.

If we started deportation hearings for everyone tomorrow, it would be years upon years before the appeals wound their ways through the system.

[KarenCee 3]

I think the people who would probably be more versed on the topic of illegal immigrants would be any Native American

They know all too well about people setting up shop illegally in every corner of North America. So in a sense wqe are all illegal immigrants I guess

Just my view on this

The difference being you don't hear Native Americans griping about illegal this and illegal that. I'm not angry with the white man for coming here and tearing my ancestors from their homeland...nor do I consider them illegal but I do understand your point. For the most part, and to anyone who sees me I look white, but I'm more Native American than I am anything else. Sometimes I wish more education was available in our schools about who was actually here first...

Oh gawd, that gets me off on another tangent and I don't want to hijack this thread.

i don't mean to flame on anyone for giving their point of view, we are all intitled to our opinions. but, WHAT?

the US wasn't a nation until the war of independence. remember the constitution, declaration of independence things,etc.

and native americans didn't just appear in the americas. i'm pretty sure that their ansestory is traced back to mongolia & they migrated across the barring straight. so by the logic above we should as the squirrels & trees how they feel about illegal immigration. no illegal immigration is wrong and those that have done it are criminals. regardless of their reasons for doing it, they have broken the law of the nation not an unsettled territory

The Cherokee Removal happened in 1838 Mike...well after the war of independence, however, the Cherokee, as well as other Native American tribes were here LONG before the white man touched foot on the shores of this country so in some ways the white man came here and took what wasn't theirs to begin with. As to the technical term "illegal"...that's subjective. No, the Native Americans didn't "just" appear as you put it... yes, they did migrate here...but long before the first white man ever made an appearance. So you think it was right for the white man to take away the lands from my ancestors, and the ancestors of other Native Americans and force them to live on reservations? All I was doing was merely responding to Allie's comment. IMHO your comment about asking squirrels and trees was bit on the ridiculous side...kinda like comparing apples with oranges.

*shakes head*

Now, back to the topic.

[udlike2no2 0]

I'd think something like liquidating all of the person's assets and any equities they've accrued by working in America illegally would start teaching people lessons.

Hum what a new idea you mean like they do now to US citizens that are criminals take and seize their stuff? What’s good for one should be good for all.

My dad is a cop in Phila and did you know that they can’t even ask anyone that they think is an illegal alien because of there rights. Wow I thought we had rights because we were citizens?

Hum its getting crazy out there know wonder I liked that movie V so much. Watch it its great.

[Caladan 19]

I don't think the point of the movie V was to be on the side of the fascist government.

[mrsserendipity 0]

i've said it before.... they have options. period. there's no reason why they couldn't file ... anything. also like i've said, you do not need a legal status to file some of these applications. if nothing else, file for Humanitarian and Compassionate. of course i feel for them and their stories, but they did not do everything they could to avoid deportation and dealing with homeland security. in fact, they did nothing. fine, do whatever to come in illegally, but then file SOMETHING. ensure your children's future as secure, ensure that their schooling isn't for nothing. just TRY. does the law always make sense and provide justice? of course not, but that applies to laws for other matters as well. compared to their countries which they came from that are "so awful" the US's laws aren't so mean and hateful.

furthermore...they had objections to the immigration bill, lol. it didn't make things easy enough for them. they simply want amnesty. they won't settle for anything else. the government was trying to throw them a bone, and they even bitched then.

[Jackie&Yosdani 0]

Does illegal immigration upset you big time too?

No. Especially after going through this process. It is stressful and expensive. And the immigration system is no where near perfect. I wonder how many people they "weed out" by making it as complicated as possible, and by having us (pay to) submit the same information in duplicate and sometimes triplicate. It's ridiculous and there is DEFINITELY a better way to do this. It is daunting and intimidating.

Desperate, poverty-stricken people and families do not even have enough money to file the paperwork fees, let alone have the money to sustain themselves in the US; and as you know, these are both requirements for legal entry.

You can't justify to me having poverty be a reason to break the law.

This reminds me of "Les Miserables"; do you fault Jean Valjean for stealing a loaf of bread to save his family's life?

Yes, stealing a loaf of bread or crossing the border without the proper papers is illegal, but the reason these people break the laws is because their country failed them. Mexico's government has failed its people and forced their hand.

I personally get upset because there is a legal way to simply work or become a student in the United States, but generally these are never looked into.

For free? These people have NO money. None. If you don't have any money, you cannot immigrate legally. That is not an option.

If you had to choose between legal death/suffering (for you and your family) and illegal life in a neighboring country, what would you choose?

The reason they can remain in the US illegally, is because US employers are willing to hire them to do the worst jobs for cheapest wages. That, IMO, is where the problem lies. If US employers did not hire illegal workers in the first place, there would be no illegal immigration problem. And as others have already mentioned, US employers have been relying on illegal workers so long that the economic ramifications of removing these people from the US (which is virtually impossible anyway) would be near catastrophic.

As much as it seems America complains about illegal immigrants, deep down, it also knows that it's a case of "we'll scratch your back if you scratch ours" (meaning, if you come here illegally, we'll still hire you and reap the benefits), which is why the US is trying to figure out a way to get status for those who have already established themselves here.

Thank you...

you said it all