Does illegal immigration upset you big time too?

[Allie 5]

I think the people who would probably be more versed on the topic of illegal immigrants would be any Native American

They know all too well about people setting up shop illegally in every corner of North America. So in a sense wqe are all illegal immigrants I guess

Just my view on this

[smoke20 0]

it doesn't upset me. IT MAKES MY VERY ANGRY!!!

enough of the wha wha sniffle sniffle sympathy.

its a direct insult to everyone on VJ, to set here & say "oh well its ok"

[mrsserendipity 0]

they want to come and have a better life, fine, do it. who doesn't want a better life for themselves and their family. however, they can ALL file for asylum. even refugee status can lead to citizenship eventually. you don't even have to have come to the US legally to file. you just have to FILE. file SOMETHING. don't just take the sissy way out. there are options. just sneaking in and remaining illegal is not the only option. there are things to file for even if you do not have a legal status. do it. THAT shows how much you love your family...ensuring their future in the US...this land they came for a better life. homeland security spends sooooooooo much money deporting people. there are people getting deported because they got a speeding ticket and were caught. there are people being sent back ALL the time. and at the same time they want to give them a chance to stay? that doesn't make any sense. they ALL had the option to file for SOMETHING to ensure their stay in this country. no excuses. no reasons to not be in a legal status. take that step, THAT shows how much they love their families, not hiding out in a church.

[Lance27 19]

I suppose that is why they have this new immigration bill put forward... to legalize all the undocumented people in the country.

they want to come and have a better life, fine, do it. who doesn't want a better life for themselves and their family. however, they can ALL file for asylum. even refugee status can lead to citizenship eventually. you don't even have to have come to the US legally to file. you just have to FILE. file SOMETHING. don't just take the sissy way out. there are options. just sneaking in and remaining illegal is not the only option. there are things to file for even if you do not have a legal status. do it. THAT shows how much you love your family...ensuring their future in the US...this land they came for a better life. homeland security spends sooooooooo much money deporting people. there are people getting deported because they got a speeding ticket and were caught. there are people being sent back ALL the time. and at the same time they want to give them a chance to stay? that doesn't make any sense. they ALL had the option to file for SOMETHING to ensure their stay in this country. no excuses. no reasons to not be in a legal status. take that step, THAT shows how much they love their families, not hiding out in a church.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Lance27

[mrsserendipity 0]

I suppose that is why they have this new immigration bill put forward... to legalize all the undocumented people in the country.

they had that option when they entered the US. the us was bombing the country i came from back in first grade...we still managed to file papers and remain legal. there is NO excuse. you do NOT have to be of legal status to file numerous applications. that is what people do not seem to understand. they care so much about a better life...file the paperwork. either before coming to the US to ensure your family's future, or after you arrived here if conditions somehow made you think it was ok to come illegally. read up on asylum, refugee. heck try the humanitarian and compassionate route. there are options. there are no excuses. if you are going to claim you love your family enough to make them hide in a church... you should've loved them enough to make sure they never had to. innocent people don't hide. illegal immigration is just that...ILLEGAL. so if a million killers decided to march and petition they would get their way, too? they had a picture of someone with a shirt on that read "i am illegal, so what." these people did not care enough to learn their options or chose to ignore them and now they want special treatment. they endangered their lives and those they cared for. that is not love. file SOMETHING.

and who do you think is going to process all these illegal immigrant visas if the bill passes? you guessed it... the same people who are processing those of the people here on VJ. you think 5-7 month wait at montreal is bad? that's nothing. i'd like to see all of you after they get their way. see how fast you're going to b*tch how much longer it takes for those of you who are trying to do things the legal way and ensure your future is secure.

[girl 37 7]

[Galateia 1]

I don't understand the situation enough to make a judgment one way or the other. I've heard lots of impassioned statements from both sides, but I think the situation is probably quite complex and I have no way of knowing all the ins and outs of the situation from all the way up here in Canada, because our attitude towards immigrants is quite different; our birth rate is so low that immigration is the only way to sustain our population.

I dated a man who came to Canada as a religious refugee after being rejected by both the US and Australia, despite his life being in danger and the flagrant persecution of his people by the government. He was so grateful to be given asylum, and to have a chance to get a post-secondary education and therefore a chance to make a decent life for himself.

I suspect Canada might be able to afford a more open-armed policy because a) our population would be shrinking without new blood, whereas the US is already stuffed to the gills with people, b) we don't share a border with a country that constantly has thousands of illegals flooding across it, and c) not everyone and their dog is trying to get in here. Canada is a 'nobody' on the global stage, whereas the US, uh, sticks out. The US is seen as the 'Golden Land of Opportunity' while we pass under the radar. This is a bit ironic, because it could be easily argued that we have as good a standard of living as the US if not better: the poorest Canadian has more access to health care than their American counterpart, which is huge. Maybe it's the Canadian Winter that scares them away!

I do think that illegal immigration directly hurts those trying to legally immigrate, which is unfair. From that standpoint, it bothers me, but on the other hand, I've never lived in a mudbrick hovel without water clean enough to safely wash the dirt off my open wounds. I can't really cast judgment.

[Dan J 277]

There are alot of ways to look at this. And there is no simple solution to the issue of illegal aliens.

Wether you not you want to admit it, illegal aliens have a large economic part to play. Taking all of them out of the picture would send the US economy into quite a recession. Americans demand cheap goods and services. Which in turn requires cheap labor. Not enough Americans are willing to satisfy the labor demand. A demand is created for labor outside the country. Immigration law doesn't allow these types of people into the country. They enter illegally to satisfy the demands of the American economy. This is exacerbated when the economy is booming and unemployment is very low. When the economy slows down illegal aliens become the scapegoat for taking all the jobs, not to mention that they are taking the jobs that most Americans really wont do.

Yes there is no dispute that these people have broken the law coming and staying in this country illegally. But does the law really reflect the realties of today? There is no visa for most of these immigrants. Many live in poverty much worse than poverty in the US. How far would you go, if faced with it, to get your family out of poverty? Asked that question, breaking a law like immigration doesn't seem so bad. It doesn't make it right but one could morally justify it. Making the trip to the US, is not without its perils, many have died crossing the deserts over the border with Mexico or coming cramped in a container from China.

Some object to the concept of immigration out of xenophobia. And would rather keep everyone not like them out and limit as much as possible even legal immigration into the country.

In my opinion, the US made a mistake in not creating an unskilled worker visa 20 years ago, before we had so many illegal aliens in this county. But now that we do, we cant simply say go home. Forcing them would be expensive and impractical and our economy will take quite a hit when 12+ million people leave. Which will cause everything from higher prices to industries downsizing.

So whatever plan we do come up with, needs to for practical purposes grandfather those people already here into a legal status. I not staying, enter illegally and you get legal status, but instead find a way to grant some kind of legal status to those already here, and anyone who enters illegally afterwards, well gets deported. I think what would be best is something like LPR status, but without possibility for citizenship. And leave citizenship for those who enter on a regular immigrant visa. That way those already here can stay and work, and pay taxes. And we don't have to waste money deporting those who will likely renter anyway but instead put the money into improving legal immigration.

I don't any side is this debate cant get everything they want. There will always be a demand for cheap labor, unless Americans themselves are willing to work in janitorial jobs or meat packing plants for next to minimum wage, that wont change. We cant secure the border without creating legal immigration for unskilled workers. And we cant possibly deport all the illegal aliens without and still continue economic growth (well after a nasty recession it would likely rebound but it could be a few years.)

[KarenCee 3]

I think the people who would probably be more versed on the topic of illegal immigrants would be any Native American

They know all too well about people setting up shop illegally in every corner of North America. So in a sense wqe are all illegal immigrants I guess

Just my view on this

The difference being you don't hear Native Americans griping about illegal this and illegal that. I'm not angry with the white man for coming here and tearing my ancestors from their homeland...nor do I consider them illegal but I do understand your point. For the most part, and to anyone who sees me I look white, but I'm more Native American than I am anything else. Sometimes I wish more education was available in our schools about who was actually here first...

Oh gawd, that gets me off on another tangent and I don't want to hijack this thread.

[Jackie&Yosdani 0]

They are coming in ilegally.. because they have no other way...

there is alot of families that are here ilegally and they are good people, they work hard like you and me they have kids here, they own a home here..

meaning that they are good US. residents but yet they hunt them down like dogs ... doesnt make sence...!!!

They should use their funds for better hunt downs.. like terrorists..

I dont have anything against these poor people...

sorry

[bowflex 0]

Whether or not the people that have come to the United States are good people or work hard, that matters to exactly nothing. If someone breaks the law, say by robbing someone because they are living in poverty and need the money, the way they live their life after that moment doesn't go into determining whether or not they should be charged and sentenced if found guilty. I do feel for the people that have it really bad, but by just logic alone, why does that one person or family's peril give them anymore right to sneak into a country and break the law over someone else? If you use that argument that means anyone that lives in a third world country should have the ability to sneak into any country they want, and we all know that if that kind of unlimited action was taken every country in the world would be taken down a few levels.

As for the old argument "jobs that Americans won't do," that's simply not true. Every service in this country ends up costing exactly what the public is willing to pay for it, which is the very essence of a supply and demand capitalist system. People would simply stop buying oranges or bananas if the price went up too high after the companies had to pay their workers a fair wage, so the market would fix itself and everyone would end up being happy in the end. Most people don't want to wash dishes in the back of a hot restaurant (a job I had back in high school), but they make up for it with a higher wage to make it worth your while, and voila, you end up having people fulfill those jobs. If companies began going under because they had to begin obeying the law by not hiring illegal workers, you wouldn't hear many people complaining because other companies fight through those very same hurdles the entire time they're in existence and everyone should play by the same rules.

The United States definitely needs immigration reform, but offering people that broke the law a way to citizenship is not right. No matter how you look at it, even if the person has been in the US for 40 years and has worked every day of those years, giving them a way to citizenship is indeed rewarding someone for breaking the law. Anyone that's already here should have no more right to citizenship than someone that is enduring the same horrors that the other person did before. Both are or went through hard times, but breaking the law is NEVER the answer. If someone falls on hard times in the States and sees their house going into foreclosure, no one would say it's okay that they go and rob a bank or something to make sure their family doesn't go homeless. Breaking the law is breaking the law.

[EmilyRugBurn 0]

Does illegal immigration upset you big time too?

No. Especially after going through this process. It is stressful and expensive. And the immigration system is no where near perfect. I wonder how many people they "weed out" by making it as complicated as possible, and by having us (pay to) submit the same information in duplicate and sometimes triplicate. It's ridiculous and there is DEFINITELY a better way to do this. It is daunting and intimidating.

Desperate, poverty-stricken people and families do not even have enough money to file the paperwork fees, let alone have the money to sustain themselves in the US; and as you know, these are both requirements for legal entry.

You can't justify to me having poverty be a reason to break the law.

This reminds me of "Les Miserables"; do you fault Jean Valjean for stealing a loaf of bread to save his family's life?

Yes, stealing a loaf of bread or crossing the border without the proper papers is illegal, but the reason these people break the laws is because their country failed them. Mexico's government has failed its people and forced their hand.

I personally get upset because there is a legal way to simply work or become a student in the United States, but generally these are never looked into.

For free? These people have NO money. None. If you don't have any money, you cannot immigrate legally. That is not an option.

If you had to choose between legal death/suffering (for you and your family) and illegal life in a neighboring country, what would you choose?

The reason they can remain in the US illegally, is because US employers are willing to hire them to do the worst jobs for cheapest wages. That, IMO, is where the problem lies. If US employers did not hire illegal workers in the first place, there would be no illegal immigration problem. And as others have already mentioned, US employers have been relying on illegal workers so long that the economic ramifications of removing these people from the US (which is virtually impossible anyway) would be near catastrophic.

As much as it seems America complains about illegal immigrants, deep down, it also knows that it's a case of "we'll scratch your back if you scratch ours" (meaning, if you come here illegally, we'll still hire you and reap the benefits), which is why the US is trying to figure out a way to get status for those who have already established themselves here.

[bowflex 0]

Breaking the law is breaking the law, as I've said before. The United States has its own homeless population, and none of these people can break the law to help their situation without being prosecuted for it. If someone is in another country and is miserably living their life, they simply should NOT have a family. If the person is unwilling to think that their actions may lead to having children and forcing them to go through exactly what they want to escape, than they shouldn't be able to later say that they needed to illegaly enter because it would be good for their family. The ends justify the means never really worked for my brain, although I can understand them trying to justify it, but it simply shouldn't be done.

As for companies hiring illegal workers, I'm completely in agreement, that is a huge problem and they should be driven out of business if they do it. But do keep in mind, a whole bunch of illegal immigrants actually get a hold of fake documentation and work that way, and in some cases the companies don't even know that they were illegal.

The system is clearly flawed, but it is in no way the United States' duty to help citizens of other countries who have had their governments fail them. The United States already routinely gets attention from the rest of the world for sticking its nose in other countries' affairs, and this is both warranted and unwarranted of course.

I've seen my wife's family enter the country and file for asylum legally without much money, but then they worked their butts off and made enough money to pay the fees that are needed for it and bought a home, cars, etc. There is absolutely no reason that someone should be able to use the money objective when breaking the law and entering a country. If you were walking down the street and a homeless person came up to you and robbed you blind, I doubt greatly that you'd go home right away, not call the police, and just say that they were justified in breaking the law. There are indeed ways to do the process legally, and the fact that millions of people bypass the system, then have the sheer disrespect for American law to go around in marches and parades saying they're not criminals and deserve ANYTHING that someone who did it legally deserves is pathetic.

[bowflex 0]

Also regarding the huge "recession" or such that would occur from deporting the illegal immigrants, this is simply not true when one studies the economic situation. The companies that have the illegal folks picking fruit, cleaning up disgusting places, etc. would either have to adapt to the market or go under. Every other market in this country has to deal with this situation and have thrived or gone under if its not deemed important to the public.

There are NO jobs that Americans won't do, they just have to be paid for their work. Most folks don't want to sit out in the hot sun all day and cut lawns or do construction, but that is also why typically there are higher wages for those types of jobs. The worse the job is, obviously the more financially-liable the company will have to be, and that's the way the system has been built and has thrived for hundreds of years.

At the very beginning prices of some goods would go up, but the public would not be willing to spend the money, and the company will either figure out a way to efficiently produce their product while supplying their product, or they will go under. Car companies in the States and around the world are a clear sign of this. American companies right now are having trouble because they aren't able to do this, but international companies are flourishing because they pay their workers fairly but also keep everything efficient.

[Caladan 19]

I believe that illegal immigration is a problem, because it sets up a very bad situation where the wealth and growth of the United States is dependent upon having a permanent Hispanic, illegal underclass. Societies like that are not stable.

I think that any reasonable solution will secure the borders (though I think a fence is dumb), work with Mexico to improve their economy (cut off the supply), punish employers who break the laws (cut off the demand), give ICE the resources to enforce overstays, and give a path to citizenship for those already here. I think that if any one of those conditions isn't met, any sort of reform will fail.

But I don't think, for reasons documented elsewhere, that I have a right to be more upset because I did it legally. Honestly, the requirements for a legal marriage-based visa are so low. I had to prove that I met C. once in the previous two years, and once we marry, he'll have a green card number automatically generated for him. One meeting. More or less automatic green card. And that makes him more worthy than someone whose parents brought them here as an infant and has lived here for 20 years? Behold the power of sex.

I don't find the argument "I had to do it legally" at all compelling. This process has been a royal pain in the ###, but I don't know. It just doesn't make me all that angry. "Are you jealous because I am generous?" and all that.