Does illegal immigration upset you big time too?

[bowflex 0]

I was reading in a local Detroit paper today that there are churches all over the USA giving protection to illegal immigrants, and the local police departments and Homeland Security offices aren't going into the churches to pick them up for fear of a public backlash. After going through the process and finally completing getting my wife back after a year ordeal, and seeing her family go through a much harder process for 15 years, this really gets to me.

Everyone here is spending the thousands of dollars and more importantly the insane amount of time it takes to do it the right way, going through the mental fatigue that hits us all, and these people dodge it all, and then get protected?!? If I hear the argument one more time that "It's going to split our family up and we can't be together," I'm going to puke. Everyone can be together in their original country while they file the correct paperwork to get in legally, and use all the benefits that come along with living in such a great country.

Sorry had to rant, I just don't understand the "pride" marches and everything claiming that sneaking into a country or living there illegally isn't breaking the law

[Flames9_RN 358]

Doesnt really bother me at all. I have been through out the world and seen much poverty. And if I was in the situation, I would do all i could to go somewhere else and have a chance at a better life.

[misa 2]

Agreed with what Flames9 said except I haven't been all over the world. Doesn't bother me.

Edited June 14, 2007 by misa

[Lance27 19]

They do this for a better life for them and their families. As I said before, as long as there are people/big business willing to hire undocumented workers, they will come. Even if they get half the minimum wage its a whole lot better than what they make in their own country.

Doesnt really bother me at all. I have been through out the world and seen much poverty. And if I was in the situation, I would do all i could to go somewhere else and have a chance at a better life.

[bowflex 0]

Instead of breaking the law those people could work harder to improve the conditions in their country, as the forefathers did in the United States. I don't understand any opposing viewpoint for this one Lol.

[bowflex 0]

I'm also willing to bet if anyone had a harder time with the immigration process than most do on these forums, your viewpoint would change considerably. My wife's family fled former Yugoslavia as it was being bombed and as Slobodan was butchering those people he didn't want around anymore, but they found a way to do it legally, and went through a horrid process that took 15 years before they were finally denied and had to leave the US.

You can't justify to me having poverty be a reason to break the law. I know conditions in some countries are incredibly bad, but isn't that all the more reason to not start a family if you feel the conditions are miserable? Work hard for yourself to create a better environment there, or do the process legally.

[Emancipation 2]

I guess I sigh when I see the posts about "illegals".. there are a lot of them on VJ and I guess my problem as a CDN I don't have anything to reference it to.. We don't have another country beating down our doors to get in, we welcome immigrants & refugees alike whole heartedly, and generally I think embrace our immigrant nation. So I think for me it's harder to not just react with a gut reaction of why does everyone dehumanize these people and call them "illegals"??.. when each one has a face, a story a name.. can't change those facts.. on the other hand it's also not my country that is missing out on millions of tax dollars and is trying to find a way to deal with the enormous numbers of a population that doesn't have a legal right to be in the country. So I guess I'm a bit torn on the issue.

I understand also the K-3'ers and such who have spent time apart from each other and have done things the right way out of belief that they wanted to obey the law - I can appreciate their anger.. however; the few illegals I have met are men who work in construction, who's families are back in Mexico and who send every penny back there.. Do they want to immigrate? or do they just want to make some money to send back home? I've been afraid to ask that question in OT - but it's the one in my mind.. do any of these people actually WANT to move their families here? or are they just wanting to make $$ and send back home to build a better life? Does the US really have a good grasp on what these people want who are here illegally?

In that case the US has bigger issues -it's not an immigration issue then - it's a migrant worker issue, which I don't think they have a structure in place for that.. Other than TN visa -

[bowflex 0]

I guess I sigh when I see the posts about "illegals".. there are a lot of them on VJ and I guess my problem as a CDN I don't have anything to reference it to.. We don't have another country beating down our doors to get in, we welcome immigrants & refugees alike whole heartedly, and generally I think embrace our immigrant nation. So I think for me it's harder to not just react with a gut reaction of why does everyone dehumanize these people and call them "illegals"??.. when each one has a face, a story a name.. can't change those facts.. on the other hand it's also not my country that is missing out on millions of tax dollars and is trying to find a way to deal with the enormous numbers of a population that doesn't have a legal right to be in the country. So I guess I'm a bit torn on the issue.

I understand also the K-3'ers and such who have spent time apart from each other and have done things the right way out of belief that they wanted to obey the law - I can appreciate their anger.. however; the few illegals I have met are men who work in construction, who's families are back in Mexico and who send every penny back there.. Do they want to immigrate? or do they just want to make some money to send back home? I've been afraid to ask that question in OT - but it's the one in my mind.. do any of these people actually WANT to move their families here? or are they just wanting to make $$ and send back home to build a better life? Does the US really have a good grasp on what these people want who are here illegally?

In that case the US has bigger issues -it's not an immigration issue then - it's a migrant worker issue, which I don't think they have a structure in place for that.. Other than TN visa -

They are typically dehumanized because they are completely ignoring the rules of our society to benefit themselves. I personally get upset because there is a legal way to simply work or become a student in the United States, but generally these are never looked into. My state of Michigan is currently one of the worst economies in the entire country, foreclosures are up, crime is beginning to rise, and all this is due to the work and job conditions. You can't get me to agree that someone working here illegally, paying no taxes, and then sending that money out of the country deserves to have that ability. The taxes and costs of medical and such are great in the United States, and I dislike how I'm doing my share to make sure those I love and myself are taken care of, while others can completely bypass the entire system and get these same things.

My biggest peeve is how the group of illegal immigrants seem to be gaining pride in their breaking of the law and think they deserve anything. I wish it was just a case of everyone who wanted to come into the country could, but the very real reality is that this would cause the country to fall to the very level of the ones people are fleeing, as the country can't support that many people and such. I do feel for those who are in those situations where they are living on the streets and such, but even America has homeless folks and such that could use resources from our government to help them along their way that end up going to someone that enters illegally.

[Flames9_RN 358]

my viewpoint as a cdn about longer waiting times would probably tick off other Cdns! lol I know my CR-1 was pretty quick in 2004--6 months, but if it taken longer so be it!! I'm in Canada, with a lot of luxaries, and not in some 3rd world country starving!! My job in the Cdn Forces ended in DEc 2004, and if my visa wasnt done by then, iwould hav eput stuff and storage and chilled with my parents in Saskatoon. I understand being away from ur loved one sucks, but others have it worse!!

I did UN peacekeeping in Croatia in 1993, beautiful country, not going to get into the politics on that one. In my Armed Forces travels, seen little kids swimming in sewer systems,and some horrible living conditions. These people try and better themselves, but their govt do little. many of them are corrupt. The rich live in luxary, whil ethe poor suffer. Much that way in NA as well.

[bowflex 0]

my viewpoint as a cdn about longer waiting times would probably tick off other Cdns! lol I know my CR-1 was pretty quick in 2004--6 months, but if it taken longer so be it!! I'm in Canada, with a lot of luxaries, and not in some 3rd world country starving!! My job in the Cdn Forces ended in DEc 2004, and if my visa wasnt done by then, iwould hav eput stuff and storage and chilled with my parents in Saskatoon. I understand being away from ur loved one sucks, but others have it worse!!

I did UN peacekeeping in Croatia in 1993, beautiful country, not going to get into the politics on that one. In my Armed Forces travels, seen little kids swimming in sewer systems,and some horrible living conditions. These people try and better themselves, but their govt do little. many of them are corrupt. The rich live in luxary, whil ethe poor suffer. Much that way in NA as well.

My question would be then why bring a child into that world when having one gives you the choice of breaking the law and supposedly having to look over your shoulder everyday, which could possibly end up leading to your entire family being separated later, or forcing a child to live in those bad conditions too?

[Flames9_RN 358]

well in some of these worls, u just cant goto a drug store for pretection!! I'm not a religious person--but doesnt the catholic church say a big no to contraceptives?? And yes, you could argue sjust say no to sex (what Bush preaches) but that isnt a very logical arguement!!

Time for a jog!! work off all that excess beer. cheerio

Edited June 14, 2007 by flames9

[neiks 19]

My question would be then why bring a child into that world when having one gives you the choice of breaking the law and supposedly having to look over your shoulder everyday, which could possibly end up leading to your entire family being separated later, or forcing a child to live in those bad conditions too?

For many people in 3rd world countries birth control is a foreign thing and just isn't easy to obtain. For others it is a religious thing.

I understand your frustration bowflex. What your wife and her family has gone through is truly unimaginable to me. And then to get to North America and have such a tough time just to stay here doing it the legal way is so disheartning. I also get upset with people that aren't doing things legally and have a big problem with those that are sucking on our systems that my tax dollars are paying for. I do feel for those that are just trying to get a better life for their families. We on this board realize how much conflicting information is out there and bad advice people get from people, ie, lawyers, friends, family, clergy and yes, even the USIC itself. Many are just ill informed and don't have the ability or resources to do things the legal way. Does that make it excusable? No, but until the govn't itself can get some better policies in place there will always be problems with illegals. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for those pigs to fly.

[bowflex 0]

My question would be then why bring a child into that world when having one gives you the choice of breaking the law and supposedly having to look over your shoulder everyday, which could possibly end up leading to your entire family being separated later, or forcing a child to live in those bad conditions too?

For many people in 3rd world countries birth control is a foreign thing and just isn't easy to obtain. For others it is a religious thing.

I understand your frustration bowflex. What your wife and her family has gone through is truly unimaginable to me. And then to get to North America and have such a tough time just to stay here doing it the legal way is so disheartning. I also get upset with people that aren't doing things legally and have a big problem with those that are sucking on our systems that my tax dollars are paying for. I do feel for those that are just trying to get a better life for their families. We on this board realize how much conflicting information is out there and bad advice people get from people, ie, lawyers, friends, family, clergy and yes, even the USIC itself. Many are just ill informed and don't have the ability or resources to do things the legal way. Does that make it excusable? No, but until the govn't itself can get some better policies in place there will always be problems with illegals. I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for those pigs to fly.

For the first part, I just feel that if the person is willing to use their family as the reason to break the law and enter another country illegally, maybe do the INCREDIBLY hard thing and just not have sex. I know it's not very feasible, but if thinking of one's child suffering is enough to make them do an immoral thing and break the law, maybe it should also be enough to simply save that child from having to go through living in an awful spot or having them also break the law.

The policies are definitely awful which are currently in place, but we've all had to find a way to get the right information and do the procedures correctly in order to bring others in or to get in ourselves. I'm just under the impression that if you want something bad enough, somehow there could be a way found to get the job done.

[neiks 19]

I'm just under the impression that if you want something bad enough, somehow there could be a way found to get the job done.

Exactly, and that is what those people have done. They want their family to be in the US so bady that they have taken refuge in the church.

[Billy_boy 0]

I can admit I'm petty enough. Considering the time we've been having, it does bother me.