Rep. Ilhan Omar promotes call for GI Bill to apply to all Americans

[Orangesapples 1,954]

5 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

All American's do have access to educational opportunities.  I came from a working class family of eight kids, my parents encouraged our education, but could in no way pay for it.  Out of the eight of us, five finished with degrees, and the other three took more vocational routes.  Of the five that went to college, it was called, "paying for it on your own", working and studying at the same time, working multiple jobs, and taking out loans that were all paid back.  You know, taking responsibility for oneself instead of relying on the parents, or the government (taxpayers) to pay for it.  I just loved the way Elizabeth Warren brushed off that father who asked her about this, emblematic of the Democrat/Leftist Party.

Oh, the horror, kids having an equal start in life independent of theirs parents' fortune. Their horror of the only obstacle to higher education being having to study hard and be a good student / take an entry exam. The horror of kids not starting life in crippling debt and the horror of public education being available for everyone. K-12 is a thing, but K-16 is too radical. 

 

I'm so happy I got my education out of the US and the only thing I had to do was study AMD compete in an exam. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

23 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Oh, the horror, kids having an equal start in life independent of theirs parents' fortune. Their horror of the only obstacle to higher education being having to study hard and be a good student / take an entry exam. The horror of kids not starting life in crippling debt and the horror of public education being available for everyone. K-12 is a thing, but K-16 is too radical. 

 

I'm so happy I got my education out of the US and the only thing I had to do was study AMD compete in an exam.

Not sure what you re trying to say here?  It almost sounds like sarcasm, but based on your previous posts, I don't think you believe that people should have to work and pay for their own college.  Can you please clarify your stance?  

 

As to the bold part, isn't that exactly what Bill & Katya said they did as well (only it was in the USA)?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

30 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

The GI bill is there for a reason - to provide assistance and opportunity to those persons who want to serve their country. As with many services offered to veterans, the reward is offered because they are and were willing to sacrifice their lives.

 

For the rest of the populace there are plenty of programs available to assist those that want a better education. My husband works with those persons every day. They didn't choose fancy colleges, but chose community and technical colleges that could provide an education and vocations to help them succeed in life and raise them out of poverty.

 

 

Pretty much sums it up.  Join the military and you get VA benefits.  Some are temporary, some, depending on length of service, may be for life.  Don't join the military, and you must seek other opportunities.  Easy peasy.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

2 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Not sure what you re trying to say here?  It almost sounds like sarcasm, but based on your previous posts, I don't think you believe that people should have to work and pay for their own college.  Can you please clarify your stance?  

 

As to the bold part, isn't that exactly what Bill & Katya said they did as well (only it was in the USA)?

I'm for 100% free education with high academic standards. Kids should focus on studying while in school and not be in debt. An educated society is also a better society and college/university offers a perspective very different from grade school. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, Orangesapples said:

I'm for 100% free education with high academic standards. Kids should focus on studying while in school and not be in debt. An educated society is also a better society and college/university offers a perspective very different from grade school. 

So you are for "free" education.  I happen to agree, it SHOULD be free.  Now, who will pay for, and with what money, this education that the recipients do not pay for?

[Dashinka 24,871]

28 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Oh, the horror, kids having an equal start in life independent of theirs parents' fortune. Their horror of the only obstacle to higher education being having to study hard and be a good student / take an entry exam. The horror of kids not starting life in crippling debt and the horror of public education being available for everyone. K-12 is a thing, but K-16 is too radical. 

 

I'm so happy I got my education out of the US and the only thing I had to do was study AMD compete in an exam. 

Yes, the horror of kids not learning anything about personal responsibility.  Let the government take care of everything.  The government is so efficient.  (sarcasm intended)

 

Just now, Orangesapples said:

I'm for 100% free education with high academic standards. Kids should focus on studying while in school and not be in debt. An educated society is also a better society and college/university offers a perspective very different from grade school. 

 There is some dependence in these two, if the education is free, the standards may fail as there will be very strict price controls imposed.  Of course you probably expect that the schools will not be forced to change with the government simply picking up the cost of said education, that is not how it will work as there will be a lot of meddling and control being imposed by the entity paying the bill.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

1 minute ago, ALFKAD said:

So you are for "free" education.  I happen to agree, it SHOULD be free.  Now, who will pay for, and with what money, this education that the recipients do not pay for?

That's already been figured out by many countries. Also, K-12 education is free now, so it can be done. 

 

This is Bernie's bill on how he proposes College for All to be financed :

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3472/text

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Just now, Orangesapples said:

That's already been figured out by many countries. Also, K-12 education is free now, so it can be done. 

 

This is Bernie's bill on how he proposes College for All to be financed :

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3472/text

That is a non-answer.  What countries have figured it out?  How did they do it?  

 

What about the countries that people have to pay for ALL their education, from 1-12 as well as college?  Their model is working, too.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Yes, the horror of kids not learning anything about personal responsibility.  Let the government take care of everything.  The government is so efficient.  (sarcasm intended)

 

 

Yep, the government can be pretty efficient. Kids have to learn about personal responsibility - that if they study enough, they will be able to get into a good school even if their parents can't afford to pay the tuition. That's how I was raised and I'm a pretty responsible adult. I was also a pretty good student and thankfully, that was all that mattered. 

[Orangesapples 1,954]

2 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

That is a non-answer.  What countries have figured it out?  How did they do it?  

 

What about the countries that people have to pay for ALL their education, from 1-12 as well as college?  Their model is working, too.

How is it a non answer? I gave you the bill with the proposal, you can get all your details in there. It's paid for by taxes, same as military and drones that bomb funerals and weddings. The details are in the bill, for your reading pleasure. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

6 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

That's already been figured out by many countries. Also, K-12 education is free now, so it can be done. 

 

This is Bernie's bill on how he proposes College for All to be financed :

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3472/text

How is it "Bernie's Bill"?  His name is nowhere on it that I can find.  And even though it was submitted to the House last June, and all co-sponsors are democrats, it has not moved at all.

[Orangesapples 1,954]

3 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

How is it "Bernie's Bill"?  His name is nowhere on it that I can find.  And even though it was submitted to the House last June, and all co-sponsors are democrats, it has not moved at all.

That was Pramila's bill, here is Bernie's bill:

 

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/1947/text

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

14 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

How is it a non answer? I gave you the bill with the proposal, you can get all your details in there. It's paid for by taxes, same as military and drones that bomb funerals and weddings. The details are in the bill, for your reading pleasure. 

Yeah, the bill is there.  But not the HOW.  

 

The US spends about $13,847 per student each year in K-12.  For roughly 35.6 million children.  That's approximately $493 billion already being paid for by our taxes.  

 

If we add the approximately 19.9 million college enrollees, at an average cost of $27,226, that's about $541.8 billion extra in ADDITIONAL taxes needed.  Each year.  

At 155.7 million employed, that means that the average person will have to pay an additional $3,480 each year in taxes.  (Yes, this would be prorated up and down the income scales).  

 

But here's the rub... if YOU pay for YOUR kids' college, the bill goes away when they graduate and the loans (if any) are paid off.  If you pay for free education for everyone, then you pay that (average) $3,480 for life.  For many people, that would amount to over $200,000 that they paid for someone else's kids to go to school "for free".  Are YOU willing to cough up an extra $200,000 of your income for my kids?

Edited February 11, 2020 by ALFKAD

[Crazy Cat 42,547]

53 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Oh, the horror, kids having an equal start in life independent of theirs parents' fortune. Their horror of the only obstacle to higher education being having to study hard and be a good student / take an entry exam. The horror of kids not starting life in crippling debt and the horror of public education being available for everyone. K-12 is a thing, but K-16 is too radical. 

 

I'm so happy I got my education out of the US and the only thing I had to do was study AMD compete in an exam. 

Do you find ANYTHING good about this country?

[Orangesapples 1,954]

7 minutes ago, missileman said:

Do you find ANYTHING good about this country?

Bernie? 

 

And Orange county is pretty awesome, as is California in general. The national parks are cool. 

 

I forgot to add - my spouse mainly. My coworkers are great people, too. 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Orangesapples