US House passes gun control bill

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm gonna have to look this up when I have more time. Working in Mental Health, my initial concern is, as you say, what gets included and how. A big part of my job is to lessen the stigma of mental illness and the media stereotype of mad, random, unpredictable acts of violence on the general populace. Although there are certainly people who should not have access to firearms, my concern is that this could lead to taking a step back in terms of humanising the real issues of mental illness. (Unwieldy sentence - apologies. Blame the Taco Bell spicy chicken crunchwrap supreme and the long weekend off I'm already anticipating.)

I think there is at least as much danger of mentally ill people harming themselves with firearms as there is of them perpetrating random acts of violence on people. Would you want it to be easy for a clinically depressed individual to get his hands on a gun?

The issue isn't suicide really - I mean there are other ways a person can do themselves in, that don't require waiting for approval on a gun. Honestly, someone who is in a suicidal frame of mind probably isn't rational enough to apply for a licence and wait to be approved (though stranger things have happened).

I guess the point is that unless a person is clinically diagnosed with manic depression, or schizophrenia etc its ultimately a subjective judgment as to what makes them 'psychologically unfit'. That's really the key issue for this bill - if they can't adequately define that then this is going to get shot down by the lawyers (probably including the ACLU).

usually it means prior/current hospitalization under a psychiatrist care..

Right - but I would assume they'd have to establish some sort of time frame limitation on how long that designation applies - like 10 years or something.

no...i never seen any time limits placed on this.,..what i have seen is the burden of proof is placed on the applicant..that means, he/she must obtain a psychiatrist who will write out ..stating the applicant is rehabbed and not a dangerous to himself/herself or others...that is hard to get a doctor to do..

also, anyone who has been convicted of certain class of felony cannot ever obtain a gun card..in illinois..

So if you were suicidal in your teens and committed to psychiatric care, but later wanted to buy a gun in your 40's - they would deny you?

[almaty 19]

I'm gonna have to look this up when I have more time. Working in Mental Health, my initial concern is, as you say, what gets included and how. A big part of my job is to lessen the stigma of mental illness and the media stereotype of mad, random, unpredictable acts of violence on the general populace. Although there are certainly people who should not have access to firearms, my concern is that this could lead to taking a step back in terms of humanising the real issues of mental illness. (Unwieldy sentence - apologies. Blame the Taco Bell spicy chicken crunchwrap supreme and the long weekend off I'm already anticipating.)

I think there is at least as much danger of mentally ill people harming themselves with firearms as there is of them perpetrating random acts of violence on people. Would you want it to be easy for a clinically depressed individual to get his hands on a gun?

The issue isn't suicide really - I mean there are other ways a person can do themselves in, that don't require waiting for approval on a gun. Honestly, someone who is in a suicidal frame of mind probably isn't rational enough to apply for a licence and wait to be approved (though stranger things have happened).

I guess the point is that unless a person is clinically diagnosed with manic depression, or schizophrenia etc its ultimately a subjective judgment as to what makes them 'psychologically unfit'. That's really the key issue for this bill - if they can't adequately define that then this is going to get shot down by the lawyers (probably including the ACLU).

usually it means prior/current hospitalization under a psychiatrist care..

Right - but I would assume they'd have to establish some sort of time frame limitation on how long that designation applies - like 10 years or something.

no...i never seen any time limits placed on this.,..what i have seen is the burden of proof is placed on the applicant..that means, he/she must obtain a psychiatrist who will write out ..stating the applicant is rehabbed and not a dangerous to himself/herself or others...that is hard to get a doctor to do..

also, anyone who has been convicted of certain class of felony cannot ever obtain a gun card..in illinois..

So if you were suicidal in your teens and committed to psychiatric care, but later wanted to buy a gun in your 40's - they would deny you?

no, i stand corrected..juvenile admissions do not count and they are sealed and non reportable...so you could..

adult admisisons are different...they are reported to the state police ..we have had patients recieve letters after release, stating their gun card is revoked and to mail them in...and they are placed in a computer barring them from purchasing a gun and/or ammo

[mawilson 2,133]

no, i stand corrected..juvenile admissions do not count and they are sealed and non reportable...so you could..

adult admisisons are different...they are reported to the state police ..we have had patients recieve letters after release, stating their gun card is revoked and to mail them in...and they are placed in a computer barring them from purchasing a gun and/or ammo

Seriously? What you tell your shrink in confidence can be reported to the state police?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

no, i stand corrected..juvenile admissions do not count and they are sealed and non reportable...so you could..

adult admisisons are different...they are reported to the state police ..we have had patients recieve letters after release, stating their gun card is revoked and to mail them in...and they are placed in a computer barring them from purchasing a gun and/or ammo

Seriously? What you tell your shrink in confidence can be reported to the state police?

I would guess so - the doctor-patient relationship generally ends if the doctor feels you're going to harm yourself or others. They have a duty to prevent a crime from being committed otherwise they become a sort of accessory I think...

[mawilson 2,133]

no, i stand corrected..juvenile admissions do not count and they are sealed and non reportable...so you could..

adult admisisons are different...they are reported to the state police ..we have had patients recieve letters after release, stating their gun card is revoked and to mail them in...and they are placed in a computer barring them from purchasing a gun and/or ammo

Seriously? What you tell your shrink in confidence can be reported to the state police?

I would guess so - the doctor-patient relationship generally ends if the doctor feels you're going to harm yourself or others. They have a duty to prevent a crime from being committed otherwise they become a sort of accessory I think...

I always thought that doctor-patient records could never be used as evidence

in a criminal proceeding. Say, if a mobster tells his shrink that he whacks people

for a living, the police couldn't use that as a confession.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

no, i stand corrected..juvenile admissions do not count and they are sealed and non reportable...so you could..

adult admisisons are different...they are reported to the state police ..we have had patients recieve letters after release, stating their gun card is revoked and to mail them in...and they are placed in a computer barring them from purchasing a gun and/or ammo

Seriously? What you tell your shrink in confidence can be reported to the state police?

I would guess so - the doctor-patient relationship generally ends if the doctor feels you're going to harm yourself or others. They have a duty to prevent a crime from being committed otherwise they become a sort of accessory I think...

I always thought that doctor-patient records could never be used as evidence

in a criminal proceeding. Say, if a mobster tells his shrink that he whacks people

for a living, the police couldn't use that as a confession.

Not as a confession - but if you know for a fact that a person is going to kill themselves or another person you have an obligation to inform the proper authorities. The "Sopranos" example is a little extreme - but if you ever watched that show, TS makes a point of not telling his psychiatrist any specifics.

[almaty 19]

no, i stand corrected..juvenile admissions do not count and they are sealed and non reportable...so you could..

adult admisisons are different...they are reported to the state police ..we have had patients recieve letters after release, stating their gun card is revoked and to mail them in...and they are placed in a computer barring them from purchasing a gun and/or ammo

Seriously? What you tell your shrink in confidence can be reported to the state police?

no...only if admitted to a psychiatric unit or diagnosed with an illness that can be delusional in nature

the information on admisisons does not come from the hospital or doctor...usually obtained via insurance records.