Poll: 63% of Americans favor letting illegal immigrants become citizens if they pass a background check and learn English

[GaryC 7]

Question, how did Javier pay taxes without a valid SSN card? If he had one how did he get it? If there is a way then I congratulate him on that much. It is my impression that the vast majority don't do that. They are either paid under the table or use a fake or stolen SSN.

They can apply for an 'Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)'. I wonder how many of them actually pay taxes legitimately though..

I realize in the big scheme of things this is a very low number but the 4 I know all pay their taxes with their ITIN.

Then I have a question for you. I assume that your man is dealing with a 3 or 10 year ban right now. How do you feel about the people that want to just let the ones that are here stay without penalty? Don't you feel that your being punished for doing things right while the others are getting a pass? You have the greatest moral authority to make a comment about this IMO.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

That's ridiculous to me too. All that actually means is that they have been able to avoid getting caught longer. I'd like to see something ANYTHING done for those who have actually PAID for their civil offense already.

Sure - but the problem is some of these people have been here for upwards of 10,15,20 years and have significant ties to the US.

Granted they broke the law to begin with (and you can't excuse that), but the failures in the system that allowed them to get in and live undetected makes that system complicit IMO. We don't evict people back to foreign countries if there's a chance that they may be persecuted over there. So too we shouldn't evict people if in doing so - they face complete destitution.

Not to throw another pointless analogy out there - but there's a parallel with Squatters rights here. If you live in the place long enough - it becomes yours.

But your forgetting the other offenses they are committing along with the illegal presence. By definition they are committing tax evasion and/or ID theft and SSN tax evasion. Should this also be forgiven? I really don't see the logic in rewarding such disregard for our laws. If a LPR or a USC did those things and were caught they would have to pay the price. Why give someone that isn't even suppose to be here a pass on that while those that belong here are prosecuted for the same thing?

One other thing that comes to mind. If we legalize 10 to 20 million people they would be eligible for SSN benefits upon retirement. Our SSN system is already on the edge and this would drive it over the cliff.

I agree with the point above that enforcement / border security should really be the first on the agenda - rather than what to do with the people already here.

As I say - I'm of the opinion that through decades of successive governments turning a blind eye to this and through their general inaction - we've essentially bought these people (specifically those who have been here for many many years). Its inhumane to return someone to their home country, if in doing so you're condemning them to instant destitution. I realise that these days people are adopting this zero tolerance attitude to everything illegal immigration - but I think we have to stop short of outright cruelty.

[Bootylicious!! 2]

Question, how did Javier pay taxes without a valid SSN card? If he had one how did he get it? If there is a way then I congratulate him on that much. It is my impression that the vast majority don't do that. They are either paid under the table or use a fake or stolen SSN.

They can apply for an 'Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)'. I wonder how many of them actually pay taxes legitimately though..

I realize in the big scheme of things this is a very low number but the 4 I know all pay their taxes with their ITIN.

Then I have a question for you. I assume that your man is dealing with a 3 or 10 year ban right now. How do you feel about the people that want to just let the ones that are here stay without penalty? Don't you feel that your being punished for doing things right while the others are getting a pass? You have the greatest moral authority to make a comment about this IMO.

Actually, Javier is already back here. We went through the waiver process and thankfully he was approved. But, to be perfectly honest with you, it pisses me off to think someone is just going to be handed their visa after all we went through. That's the thing, I've never said I agree with them getting handed things. I don't agree with no penalty for their actions. Javier paid his penalty and so did I by marrying him. But, I understand the other side of things and how difficult it would be on the family members still here if they were deported, indefinitely. By going through 6 months of being without Javier's income and support after I had gotten used to that, I understand the hardship it would be for the woman and children left behind. That's why it's so hard for me to read the "deport them all and never let them come back" opinions. Because if that were the case, I'd be sitting here without my husband or I'd be sitting in Mexico typing this. The only thing I've ever wanted to get across to people is that we are all humans and we all deserve a second chance. We've all made bad decisions and I don't know about you, but I continue making them from time to time. I think it's just natural. I just wish people would realize they (illegals) made bad choices and it's not fair to punish them and the people that love them forever. Which is the idea I get from some people on this board.

[Traviesa 0]

I second what Charity said. Our stories are actually very similar except my husband was deported before he could leave voluntarily. As far as bans go, his is 10 years and so far 4 years of that ban have passed without the US allowing him back in here. We're in for another year of this at least. It angers me also that people will get handed a reward for the SAME CRIME that we are STILL being PUNISHED for.

[Heracles 417]

I just wish people would realize they (illegals) made bad choices and it's not fair to punish them and the people that love them forever. Which is the idea I get from some people on this board.

If I went to another nation illegally I would expect them to throw me out and not tolerate my disregard for their laws or sovereignty.

I also agree that the burden does not rest solely on the illegal immigrants shoulders. The businesses who disregard the law to increase their profits should pay and pay dearly for that. Not only have they let down these illegals by not paying them accordingly, they are also profiteering at the expense of the middle class and poor American. These businesses should fined, listed in a public database and be made to publicly apologize for their actions.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Infidel

[GaryC 7]

Actually, Javier is already back here. We went through the waiver process and thankfully he was approved. But, to be perfectly honest with you, it pisses me off to think someone is just going to be handed their visa after all we went through. That's the thing, I've never said I agree with them getting handed things. I don't agree with no penalty for their actions. Javier paid his penalty and so did I by marrying him. But, I understand the other side of things and how difficult it would be on the family members still here if they were deported, indefinitely. By going through 6 months of being without Javier's income and support after I had gotten used to that, I understand the hardship it would be for the woman and children left behind. That's why it's so hard for me to read the "deport them all and never let them come back" opinions. Because if that were the case, I'd be sitting here without my husband or I'd be sitting in Mexico typing this. The only thing I've ever wanted to get across to people is that we are all humans and we all deserve a second chance. We've all made bad decisions and I don't know about you, but I continue making them from time to time. I think it's just natural. I just wish people would realize they (illegals) made bad choices and it's not fair to punish them and the people that love them forever. Which is the idea I get from some people on this board.

I am glad to hear things worked out for you. I am not among the crowd that says they should never be allowed back. I am only asking that they be treated the same as any other intended immigrant. But I think it is unfair to those that are doing things right to just allow them to stay without going back and working through the process.

As far as Ecekose's point of not wanting to disrupt peoples lives by making them go back, sometimes you must pay the price for your actions. They knew that they were breaking the law when they came and the fact they got away with it for a long time does not lessen that crime. I will stand by my position that anyone that is here illegally should go home and apply for the proper visa before being let back in. I would even entertain the idea of waving the ban for those that have been here for X number of years and only want a work visa. But they must be documented and inspected. They must have a proper visa and permission to work. The must work within the system rather than be given a pass.

[mawilson 2,133]

If we legalize 10 to 20 million people they would be eligible for SSN benefits upon retirement. Our SSN system is already on the edge and this would drive it over the cliff.

Illegals are mostly young people who I imagine will not be retiring any time soon.

Also, they are not eligible for SSN benefits until they have completed at least

40 quarters (10 years) of earnings.

[Bootylicious!! 2]

Actually, Javier is already back here. We went through the waiver process and thankfully he was approved. But, to be perfectly honest with you, it pisses me off to think someone is just going to be handed their visa after all we went through. That's the thing, I've never said I agree with them getting handed things. I don't agree with no penalty for their actions. Javier paid his penalty and so did I by marrying him. But, I understand the other side of things and how difficult it would be on the family members still here if they were deported, indefinitely. By going through 6 months of being without Javier's income and support after I had gotten used to that, I understand the hardship it would be for the woman and children left behind. That's why it's so hard for me to read the "deport them all and never let them come back" opinions. Because if that were the case, I'd be sitting here without my husband or I'd be sitting in Mexico typing this. The only thing I've ever wanted to get across to people is that we are all humans and we all deserve a second chance. We've all made bad decisions and I don't know about you, but I continue making them from time to time. I think it's just natural. I just wish people would realize they (illegals) made bad choices and it's not fair to punish them and the people that love them forever. Which is the idea I get from some people on this board.

I am glad to hear things worked out for you. I am not among the crowd that says they should never be allowed back. I am only asking that they be treated the same as any other intended immigrant. But I think it is unfair to those that are doing things right to just allow them to stay without going back and working through the process.

As far as Ecekose's point of not wanting to disrupt peoples lives by making them go back, sometimes you must pay the price for your actions. They knew that they were breaking the law when they came and the fact they got away with it for a long time does not lessen that crime. I will stand by my position that anyone that is here illegally should go home and apply for the proper visa before being let back in. I would even entertain the idea of waving the ban for those that have been here for X number of years and only want a work visa. But they must be documented and inspected. They must have a proper visa and permission to work. The must work within the system rather than be given a pass.

Sounds good to me.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I also agree that the burden does not rest solely on the illegal immigrants shoulders. The businesses who disregard the law to increase their profits should pay and pay dearly for that. Not only have they let down these illegals by not paying them accordingly, they are also profiteering at the expense of the middle class and poor American. These businesses should fined, listed in a public database and be made to publicly apologize for their actions.

As a "legal" immigrant its hard to see how that wouldn't damage my chances of securing continued employment. Employers would be more reticent that they already are to consider people for a job when you're in a transitional status..

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As far as Ecekose's point of not wanting to disrupt peoples lives by making them go back, sometimes you must pay the price for your actions. They knew that they were breaking the law when they came and the fact they got away with it for a long time does not lessen that crime.

As I said condemning people who've been here for 20+ years to homelessness and destitution isn't something that I could support in good conscience.

[Sky_Cruiser 0]

Return back to birth country. (where most of our loves ones started and are still waiting)

File for LEGAL immigration (we know this procedure)

Stand in line. (we all have waited our turns)

No if and r butts -

Secure our borders. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90SDkhwnEIo -- Where's the fence

[Robor007 0]

Actually, Javier is already back here. We went through the waiver process and thankfully he was approved. But, to be perfectly honest with you, it pisses me off to think someone is just going to be handed their visa after all we went through. That's the thing, I've never said I agree with them getting handed things. I don't agree with no penalty for their actions. Javier paid his penalty and so did I by marrying him. But, I understand the other side of things and how difficult it would be on the family members still here if they were deported, indefinitely. By going through 6 months of being without Javier's income and support after I had gotten used to that, I understand the hardship it would be for the woman and children left behind. That's why it's so hard for me to read the "deport them all and never let them come back" opinions. Because if that were the case, I'd be sitting here without my husband or I'd be sitting in Mexico typing this. The only thing I've ever wanted to get across to people is that we are all humans and we all deserve a second chance. We've all made bad decisions and I don't know about you, but I continue making them from time to time. I think it's just natural. I just wish people would realize they (illegals) made bad choices and it's not fair to punish them and the people that love them forever. Which is the idea I get from some people on this board.

I am glad to hear things worked out for you. I am not among the crowd that says they should never be allowed back. I am only asking that they be treated the same as any other intended immigrant. But I think it is unfair to those that are doing things right to just allow them to stay without going back and working through the process.

As far as Ecekose's point of not wanting to disrupt peoples lives by making them go back, sometimes you must pay the price for your actions. They knew that they were breaking the law when they came and the fact they got away with it for a long time does not lessen that crime. I will stand by my position that anyone that is here illegally should go home and apply for the proper visa before being let back in. I would even entertain the idea of waving the ban for those that have been here for X number of years and only want a work visa. But they must be documented and inspected. They must have a proper visa and permission to work. The must work within the system rather than be given a pass.

OMG we agree on something!

[natty bumppo 293]

And once they are within the system ... given proper documentation ... why would they stay at these "excessively low paying jobs" ? In their place, once legal ... i'd be aggressively looking for the same wages as a USC. Screw the low paying stuff.

So ... now who will do these low paying jobs?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

And once they are within the system ... given proper documentation ... why would they stay at these "excessively low paying jobs" ? In their place, once legal ... i'd be aggressively looking for the same wages as a USC. Screw the low paying stuff.

So ... now who will do these low paying jobs?

There will always be Guatemalans.

[natty bumppo 293]

And once they are within the system ... given proper documentation ... why would they stay at these "excessively low paying jobs" ? In their place, once legal ... i'd be aggressively looking for the same wages as a USC. Screw the low paying stuff.

So ... now who will do these low paying jobs?

There will always be Guatemalans.

and another amnesty ?