Poll: 63% of Americans favor letting illegal immigrants become citizens if they pass a background check and learn English

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Sorry, I have a fundamental problem with rewarding illegal behavior. I realize that our own government has been derelict in this and I also blame them. But my own sense of right and wrong will not allow for rewarding this kind of behavior regardless of how long they have gotten away with it.

I think we have to balance seeing justice done with some sort of humanitarian responsibility. Taking away a person's home, job and family connections - is effectively condemning them to homelessness and destitution.

[Traviesa 0]

That's ridiculous to me too. All that actually means is that they have been able to avoid getting caught longer. I'd like to see something ANYTHING done for those who have actually PAID for their civil offense already.

Sure - but the problem is some of these people have been here for upwards of 10,15,20 years and have significant ties to the US.

Granted they broke the law to begin with (and you can't excuse that), but the failures in the system that allowed them to get in and live undetected makes that system complicit IMO. We don't evict people back to foreign countries if there's a chance that they may be persecuted over there. So too we shouldn't evict people if in doing so - they face complete destitution.

Not to throw another pointless analogy out there - but there's a parallel with Squatters rights here. If you live in the place long enough - it becomes yours.

I completely understand your point. I'm just saying-you don't have to be here even 10 years to develop significant ties to the US (I'm hoping having your wife/family here is considered significant) but sometimes those people get sent back too. All I'm saying is I would really like to see something done for them-for my husband. I know that's just a dream though-nobody cares too much about families anymore.

[poppscc 0]

poll must have been conducted in east LA

pure propaganda

[GaryC 7]

That's ridiculous to me too. All that actually means is that they have been able to avoid getting caught longer. I'd like to see something ANYTHING done for those who have actually PAID for their civil offense already.

Sure - but the problem is some of these people have been here for upwards of 10,15,20 years and have significant ties to the US.

Granted they broke the law to begin with (and you can't excuse that), but the failures in the system that allowed them to get in and live undetected makes that system complicit IMO. We don't evict people back to foreign countries if there's a chance that they may be persecuted over there. So too we shouldn't evict people if in doing so - they face complete destitution.

Not to throw another pointless analogy out there - but there's a parallel with Squatters rights here. If you live in the place long enough - it becomes yours.

But your forgetting the other offenses they are committing along with the illegal presence. By definition they are committing tax evasion and/or ID theft and SSN tax evasion. Should this also be forgiven? I really don't see the logic in rewarding such disregard for our laws. If a LPR or a USC did those things and were caught they would have to pay the price. Why give someone that isn't even suppose to be here a pass on that while those that belong here are prosecuted for the same thing?

One other thing that comes to mind. If we legalize 10 to 20 million people they would be eligible for SSN benefits upon retirement. Our SSN system is already on the edge and this would drive it over the cliff.

[Bootylicious!! 2]

That's ridiculous to me too. All that actually means is that they have been able to avoid getting caught longer. I'd like to see something ANYTHING done for those who have actually PAID for their civil offense already.

Sure - but the problem is some of these people have been here for upwards of 10,15,20 years and have significant ties to the US.

Granted they broke the law to begin with (and you can't excuse that), but the failures in the system that allowed them to get in and live undetected makes that system complicit IMO. We don't evict people back to foreign countries if there's a chance that they may be persecuted over there. So too we shouldn't evict people if in doing so - they face complete destitution.

Not to throw another pointless analogy out there - but there's a parallel with Squatters rights here. If you live in the place long enough - it becomes yours.

But your forgetting the other offenses they are committing along with the illegal presence. By definition they are committing tax evasion and/or ID theft and SSN tax evasion. Should this also be forgiven? I really don't see the logic in rewarding such disregard for our laws. If a LPR or a USC did those things and were caught they would have to pay the price. Why give someone that isn't even suppose to be here a pass on that while those that belong here are prosecuted for the same thing?

One other thing that comes to mind. If we legalize 10 to 20 million people they would be eligible for SSN benefits upon retirement. Our SSN system is already on the edge and this would drive it over the cliff.

Actually, Gary, they don't all do that. Again, this is just one example but Javier paid his taxes the whole time he was here illegally. Neither did he commit ID theft because he never had a fake SSN. The idea that all illegals have also committed other criminal offenses is ridiculous as we have proof here they don't. This is just another example of a generalization that is made of illegals because everyone assumes they know how illegals live. Very rarely do Javier or I get asked what our lives were like while he was here illegally.

[smoke20 0]

ok i usually don't post on troll topics like this, but what the hell!

1st i want to call BS on the article & the poll. i don't know anyone thats ok w/ the immigration bill or letting the illegal get a pass on breaking the law.

to stop the illegal immigration we need to make it harder on people exploiting them as well! i posted this the other day.

if you rent to an illegal-your property is seized & auctioned

if you employ an illegal- 1st offense $10,000 fine per illegal

2nd offense $20,000 fine per

3rd offense $30,000 fine per + property business & private seized & auctioned. w/ jail time.

(don't remember who added jail time, but good idea)

what do we do w/ the illegals? lock'em up & bus'em home.( don't want to hear any bs, they broke the law)

how do we pay for it?( read the above again)

where do we find the illegals ( don't play dumb, we all know what kind of work they do & where they are)

[Heracles 417]

We should certainly enforce the employment laws - but we shouldn't assume that doing so is going to stop people from working under the radar.

I worked construction for a couple of months after I got my EAD, and I know a number of the workers were paid in cash out of pocket. Not exactly sure how this sort of thing can be stopped. Fining the employers for hiring undocumented workers is all well and good - but there's a logistical challenge in doing so because the problem is so widespread.

I think a $20,000 fine per illegal worker would more than pay for enforcement.

The US government should not be playing cat and mouse with the illegal immigrants but rather Russian roulette with the employers. That is, if they take the risk of employing someone illegally then they should also risk being fined heavily and/or jailed.. The above post sums up the required enforcement nicely.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Infidel

[GaryC 7]

Actually, Gary, they don't all do that. Again, this is just one example but Javier paid his taxes the whole time he was here illegally. Neither did he commit ID theft because he never had a fake SSN. The idea that all illegals have also committed other criminal offenses is ridiculous as we have proof here they don't. This is just another example of a generalization that is made of illegals because everyone assumes they know how illegals live. Very rarely do Javier or I get asked what our lives were like while he was here illegally.

Question, how did Javier pay taxes without a valid SSN card? If he had one how did he get it? If there is a way then I congratulate him on that much. It is my impression that the vast majority don't do that. They are either paid under the table or use a fake or stolen SSN. I refer you to this thread as supporting evidence.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72912

[homesick_american 1]

Actually, Gary, they don't all do that. Again, this is just one example but Javier paid his taxes the whole time he was here illegally. Neither did he commit ID theft because he never had a fake SSN. The idea that all illegals have also committed other criminal offenses is ridiculous as we have proof here they don't. This is just another example of a generalization that is made of illegals because everyone assumes they know how illegals live. Very rarely do Javier or I get asked what our lives were like while he was here illegally.

Question, how did Javier pay taxes without a valid SSN card? If he had one how did he get it? If there is a way then I congratulate him on that much. It is my impression that the vast majority don't do that. They are either paid under the table or use a fake or stolen SSN. I refer you to this thread as supporting evidence.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72912

I think illegals can get some other type of number...an ITIN I think...in order to pay their taxes. The IRS doesn't care if you're illegal or not, they'll take your money anyway.

That isn't to say that illegals don't engage in a lot of ID theft; they do. Just not all of them.

[Heracles 417]

The current proposal suggests giving amnesty first then enforcement later. Whereas I propose securing the borders, actually enforcing the laws, increasing the fines for employers, revamping social security cards so they look like EAD's and requiring additional documentation along with the SSC from employees such as passport or drivers license first before any amnesty is given. As well as pressuring the Mexican government to do 'their part' and secure 'their' side of the border.

Once such preventative measures are in place only then should the country discuss amnesty with conditions. With conditions such as anyone convicted of a crime while being here illegally should automatically be deported, no exceptions.

[Bootylicious!! 2]

Actually, Gary, they don't all do that. Again, this is just one example but Javier paid his taxes the whole time he was here illegally. Neither did he commit ID theft because he never had a fake SSN. The idea that all illegals have also committed other criminal offenses is ridiculous as we have proof here they don't. This is just another example of a generalization that is made of illegals because everyone assumes they know how illegals live. Very rarely do Javier or I get asked what our lives were like while he was here illegally.

Question, how did Javier pay taxes without a valid SSN card? If he had one how did he get it? If there is a way then I congratulate him on that much. It is my impression that the vast majority don't do that. They are either paid under the table or use a fake or stolen SSN. I refer you to this thread as supporting evidence.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72912

He paid his taxes using an ITIN. He didn't have a SSN at all. All he had to do to get the ITIN number was go to the tax place over here in town and present some ID's, which he had because they didn't have the restrictions on illegals getting ID's before. I'm not sure that's how it's done now because that was 5 years ago. They may have changed how they issue ITIN numbers. I also know several other illegals who have ITIN's and do not have SSN's. I think it's more common than you think it is.

[Heracles 417]

Question, how did Javier pay taxes without a valid SSN card? If he had one how did he get it? If there is a way then I congratulate him on that much. It is my impression that the vast majority don't do that. They are either paid under the table or use a fake or stolen SSN.

They can apply for an 'Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)'. I wonder how many of them actually pay taxes legitimately though..

[Bootylicious!! 2]

Question, how did Javier pay taxes without a valid SSN card? If he had one how did he get it? If there is a way then I congratulate him on that much. It is my impression that the vast majority don't do that. They are either paid under the table or use a fake or stolen SSN.

They can apply for an 'Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)'. I wonder how many of them actually pay taxes legitimately though..

I realize in the big scheme of things this is a very low number but the 4 I know all pay their taxes with their ITIN.

[Traviesa 0]

Question, how did Javier pay taxes without a valid SSN card? If he had one how did he get it? If there is a way then I congratulate him on that much. It is my impression that the vast majority don't do that. They are either paid under the table or use a fake or stolen SSN.

They can apply for an 'Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)'. I wonder how many of them actually pay taxes legitimately though..

What's the incentive? They'll never see that money again. But one thing is for sure-EVERYONE pays SS. And that's money they will certainly never see again because you can't get SS benefits without a SS number.

[Heracles 417]

I realize in the big scheme of things this is a very low number but the 4 I know all pay their taxes with their ITIN.

I understand there are people here illegally who are trying to do the right thing. America needs to look after it's own poor people first before it can accept others. Unlike the rest of the world the US economy is not currently booming. This constant flow of cheap labor is great for the rich but is really hurting the middle to lower class American. Once the laws are enforced and the economy starts booming again only then should the US allow temporary workers in.

People talk about universal health care and higher wages but the reality is that this is not possible when u have people working for $2 an hour and paying little or no federal tax. People seem to mistaken the US for unicef. Like every other nation out there the US has its people to look after first and should get back to doing that..

Edited June 13, 2007 by Infidel