Poll: 63% of Americans favor letting illegal immigrants become citizens if they pass a background check and learn English

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I wish the illegals had a medical exam and background check. Without them 100% have the potential to be HIV infected mass murderers.

why, cuz all of them are rapists or drug dealers? maybe the % of illegals who are rapists and drugdealers are the ones we need to be afraid of..

We don't know because they are not inspected. So assume the worst.

[Scott & Lai 12]

We assume the worst until demonstrated otherwise with legal immigrants....we should probably stop that too, then

[natty bumppo 293]

But ... show me the proof they do not. Otherwise ... they do.

Well you would have to know that there's no way for me, as a private individual to prove to you that every single (or even 1) illegal immigrant is disease free - so I'm not sure how that argument is relevant or how it can be assumed that they do.

To show you how ludicrous the argument is - I can also say with no degree of certainty that my downstairs neighbours don't have HIV - so should I assume they do, just because I don't know? I also can't say for certain that they are legal, US Citizens - so again should I assume they aren't just because I don't know?

BTW - Its not a crime to have a communicable disease in this country - might get you denied an immigration visa; but it is within the realm of possibility for a person to catch such a disease while in the country. Its not like the US is a disease-free nation...

Sorry bad choice of word … not STD … communicable disease.

You don't know about your neighbor?

so ... another analogy ... you leave your door unlocked with your life savings on the table. The neighbor has not been proven to be honest ... so you leave your life savings on the table with an unlocked open door until he is proven to be dishonest.

Okay ... I admit that's a little twisted ... I hope you take it in the spirit it's meant.

I'm not asking you ... the private individual to know about communicable diseases of your neighbor. I'm simply commenting ... immigrants need to provide proof to the gov't of a non-communicable disease.

Example: Your SO needs an exam ... yes? Mine does.

Why not require the same for others? This is not something new for this country.

[pedroh 21]

argumentum ad ignorantiam..

cmon guys... that's a n00bs fallacy..

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Even in the Ellis Islands days ... people of poor health were sent back. Why not now?

Are these people sneaking across the border today hiding something? Or think they are too good to submit to an examination?

Sent back at the transport company's expense. So they were inspected rather well by the shipping lines. People either don't know this or conveniently forget.

Remember.... immigration is a privilege so they are guilty until proven innocent. Most spouses here underwent and had to pass a physical before they were approved.

[natty bumppo 293]

argumentum ad ignorantiam..

cmon guys... that's a n00bs fallacy..

to what are you replying ?

[Scott & Lai 12]

argumentum ad ignorantiam..

cmon guys... that's a n00bs fallacy..

to what are you replying ?

I'll second that question

[natty bumppo 293]

argumentum ad ignorantiam..

cmon guys... that's a n00bs fallacy..

to what are you replying ?

I'll second that question

Can I third it ? Or do we need another ?

[Scott & Lai 12]

argumentum ad ignorantiam..

cmon guys... that's a n00bs fallacy..

to what are you replying ?

I'll second that question

Can I third it ? Or do we need another ?

I'll have to check Robert's Rules, but I don't think you can "third" your own question

[Anais Nin 0]

without hard facts ... you assume the worst.

Can you prove these illegals don't have STD's? Show us where their medical records are available for the US gov't to review and prove they’re STD free.

If not, then we must assume that 100% do have STD's.

That sounds slightly suspect to me. OK - they're here illegally. Not sure what purpose it serves demonising them further and equating them with the worst types of violent criminals.

they will come un-checked unless stopped.

Even in the Ellis Islands days ... people of poor health were sent back. Why not now?

Are these people sneaking across the border today hiding something? Or think they are too good to submit to an examination?

As I said - this is an emotional subject. It really doesn't need melodrama.

One can imagine these americans sitting at the computer in their pygamas in their trailer homes getting a little flustered.

Sorry, guys. The writing is on the wall - literally, in Spanish.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

They don't poll 5-10 million people for presidential polls.

Maybe they should. Polls showed that Kerry was supposed to win against Bush. So much for polls. They are the right and left coasts talkng to themselves most of the time.

How Americans View Immigrants

Right after the Sept. 11 attacks, most Americans thought the United States was letting in too many immigrants. But that has changed. We discuss some surprising results from a new poll on immigration.

Let's not mix immigrants with illegal aliens. This is a liberal trick.

The fact is, every day that any illegal is in the US, they are breaking the law by using false papers, committing fraud, and stealing social security numbers. An entire industry is growing up around helping them to continue braking the law by offering mortagages, bank accounts and other financial services without ssn's. Law enforcement allows them passes an LPR or US citizen would not get because anctuary cities flout federal requirements by refusing to enforce immigration laws, and directing police not to cooperate with federal authorities. Congressmen call ICE to complain about the harrassment of lawbreakers on behalf of their law breaking employers, and give only lip service to protecting our borders. The result is a two-tier system where law abiding tax payers are forced to support the bad habitsand greed of the less principled and lowest common denominator among us while reaping little benefit in comparison.

How any logical person could support this is beyond me. It lowers our morality, distorts our rationale and destroys the environment where logical thought and action can thrive.

[homesick_american 1]

without hard facts ... you assume the worst.

Can you prove these illegals don't have STD's? Show us where their medical records are available for the US gov't to review and prove they’re STD free.

If not, then we must assume that 100% do have STD's.

That sounds slightly suspect to me. OK - they're here illegally. Not sure what purpose it serves demonising them further and equating them with the worst types of violent criminals.

they will come un-checked unless stopped.

Even in the Ellis Islands days ... people of poor health were sent back. Why not now?

Are these people sneaking across the border today hiding something? Or think they are too good to submit to an examination?

I'm not sure how useful it is to dehumanise people with that kind of labelling.

As I said - this is an emotional subject. It really doesn't need melodrama.

Natty Bumpoo has a point, though. I don't agree that we must assume that 100% of illegals have STDs/TB but STDs and especially TB are MASSIVE public health issues. Illegals coming in unchecked are absolutely spreading these diseases among themselves and the native US population. This ends up costing public health services money, since they usually don't have insurance. Melodrama aside, this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

[homesick_american 1]

BTW - Its not a crime to have a communicable disease in this country - might get you denied an immigration visa; but it is within the realm of possibility for a person to catch such a disease while in the country. Its not like the US is a disease-free nation...

Yes, and there is evidence to suggest that illegals contribute a great deal to the USA's TB burden.

[Ban Hammer 13,282]

argumentum ad ignorantiam..

cmon guys... that's a n00bs fallacy..

to what are you replying ?

I'll second that question

Can I third it ? Or do we need another ?

i'll third that

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

without hard facts ... you assume the worst.

Can you prove these illegals don't have STD's? Show us where their medical records are available for the US gov't to review and prove they’re STD free.

If not, then we must assume that 100% do have STD's.

That sounds slightly suspect to me. OK - they're here illegally. Not sure what purpose it serves demonising them further and equating them with the worst types of violent criminals.

they will come un-checked unless stopped.

Even in the Ellis Islands days ... people of poor health were sent back. Why not now?

Are these people sneaking across the border today hiding something? Or think they are too good to submit to an examination?

I'm not sure how useful it is to dehumanise people with that kind of labelling.

As I said - this is an emotional subject. It really doesn't need melodrama.

Natty Bumpoo has a point, though. I don't agree that we must assume that 100% of illegals have STDs/TB but STDs and especially TB are MASSIVE public health issues. Illegals coming in unchecked are absolutely spreading these diseases among themselves and the native US population. This ends up costing public health services money, since they usually don't have insurance. Melodrama aside, this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.

Sure - but I really don't see what the issue is. The priority surely has to be to secure the borders first, and enforce the employment laws - to curb the influx and then, under certain conditions find some way to register or officialise those already here. An amnesty of some sort or other is simply inevitable IMO - though admitted not very politically correct these days. The people who are already here are a separate problem that has to be dealt independently of the border/employment law issue.

As I said - people who have been here a long time have effectively beaten the system. That's not fair, but the blame lies with successive governments for refusing to address the problem - as much as it does with migrants themselves. If you can live undetected in the country for 10,15,20 or 25 years - it seems to me that the system, by its own negligence and ignorance is complicit in the problems associated with illegal immigration, including the spreading of communicable diseases.

Edited June 13, 2007 by erekose