Poll: 63% of Americans favor letting illegal immigrants become citizens if they pass a background check and learn English

[JVKn'CVO 11]

Sounds like a crime to me. What do you think?

Hmm, you're probably right.

Tax evasion, ID theft and falsification of government records still qualify as felonies. More often than not, those felonies are committed daily following the waking up in America. Let's not forget that. That is unless the illegal is one of the independently wealthy in which case he probably wouldn't be here.

Or be here legally - wealthy people can usually qualify for one of the E visas (for investors.)

How do you guys feel about the 10 year ban penalty on visa fraud cases? It sounds a little excessive to me.

No doubt it should be punished, of course, but maybe if the penalty wasn't so big, more people would be willing to face the consequences of their actions if that meant to get their papers in order.

Caro,

[GaryC 7]

Sounds like a crime to me. What do you think?

Hmm, you're probably right.

Tax evasion, ID theft and falsification of government records still qualify as felonies. More often than not, those felonies are committed daily following the waking up in America. Let's not forget that. That is unless the illegal is one of the independently wealthy in which case he probably wouldn't be here.

Or be here legally - wealthy people can usually qualify for one of the E visas (for investors.)

How do you guys feel about the 10 year ban penalty on visa fraud cases? It sounds a little excessive to me.

No doubt it should be punished, of course, but maybe if the penalty wasn't so big, more people would be willing to face the consequences of their actions if that meant to get their papers in order.

Caro,

There is a 3 or 10 year ban for illegal presence but for fraud it is a lifetime ban.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Iniibig ko si Luz forever

[JVKn'CVO 11]

How do you guys feel about the 10 year ban penalty on visa fraud cases? It sounds a little excessive to me.

No doubt it should be punished, of course, but maybe if the penalty wasn't so big, more people would be willing to face the consequences of their actions if that meant to get their papers in order.

Caro,

There is a 3 or 10 year ban for illegal presence but for fraud it is a lifetime ban.

D'oh! didn't know that

3 years sounds fair...10 sounds excessive...lifetime ban, wow!

what I think is...have you seen "30 days"? the episode were they set up a (minute man is what they call them?) with a family of illegal immigrants? well, their main fear was leaving/ getting kicked out of the country, and not ever being able to return.

Maybe if the penalties would be more reasonable, illegal immigrants would be more willing to go back to their countries, face the ban, and then do things right by the law.

Just maybe...only a thought. An opinion open to discussion

Caro

[GaryC 7]

How do you guys feel about the 10 year ban penalty on visa fraud cases? It sounds a little excessive to me.

No doubt it should be punished, of course, but maybe if the penalty wasn't so big, more people would be willing to face the consequences of their actions if that meant to get their papers in order.

Caro,

There is a 3 or 10 year ban for illegal presence but for fraud it is a lifetime ban.

D'oh! didn't know that

3 years sounds fair...10 sounds excessive...lifetime ban, wow!

what I think is...have you seen "30 days"? the episode were they set up a (minute man is what they call them?) with a family of illegal immigrants? well, their main fear was leaving/ getting kicked out of the country, and not ever being able to return.

Maybe if the penalties would be more reasonable, illegal immigrants would be more willing to go back to their countries, face the ban, and then do things right by the law.

Just maybe...only a thought. An opinion open to discussion

Caro

There are waivers for the ban. Some get it some don't, it depends on the circumstances.

[JVKn'CVO 11]

How do you guys feel about the 10 year ban penalty on visa fraud cases? It sounds a little excessive to me.

No doubt it should be punished, of course, but maybe if the penalty wasn't so big, more people would be willing to face the consequences of their actions if that meant to get their papers in order.

Caro,

There is a 3 or 10 year ban for illegal presence but for fraud it is a lifetime ban.

D'oh! didn't know that

3 years sounds fair...10 sounds excessive...lifetime ban, wow!

what I think is...have you seen "30 days"? the episode were they set up a (minute man is what they call them?) with a family of illegal immigrants? well, their main fear was leaving/ getting kicked out of the country, and not ever being able to return.

Maybe if the penalties would be more reasonable, illegal immigrants would be more willing to go back to their countries, face the ban, and then do things right by the law.

Just maybe...only a thought. An opinion open to discussion

Caro

There are waivers for the ban. Some get it some don't, it depends on the circumstances.

So you think the penalties are fair?

Caro

[GaryC 7]

So you think the penalties are fair?

Caro

In a word, yes. There must be some penalty for ignoring the rules otherwise the rules are useless.

[natty bumppo 293]

So you think the penalties are fair?

Caro

In a word, yes. There must be some penalty for ignoring the rules otherwise the rules are useless.

I'll second this.

[JVKn'CVO 11]

Of course, I thought I made that clear from the first post, breaking the law should be penalized, no doubt about that.

but that wasn't the question. the question is

Do you think a LIFETIME BAN is a FAIR AND REASONABLE penalty for visa fraud?

1) yes, it's a fair and reasonable penalty.

2)maybe if instead of being LIFETIME BAN, it would be a 3-4 YEARS BAN, illegals wouldn't cling to US soil like it's the last glass of water in the middle of the desert, and be more open to the possibility of going back to their countries, doing the time, and then begin the immigration process legally. And maybe, illegal immigration would decline and an amnesty that pisses everyone off wouldn't be necessary.

3)No, the penalty should be tougher. ( I don't know what would be tougher, maybe a fine plus the lifetime ban, don't know)

my thoughts as of this moment are on the lines of option 2, open to change if someone has a solid enough argument that would make me reconsider it.

Caro

[natty bumppo 293]

Of course, I thought I made that clear from the first post, breaking the law should be penalized, no doubt about that.

but that wasn't the question. the question is

Do you think a LIFETIME BAN is a FAIR AND REASONABLE penalty for visa fraud?

1) yes, it's a fair and reasonable penalty.

2)maybe if instead of being LIFETIME BAN, it would be a 3-4 YEARS BAN, illegals wouldn't cling to US soil like it's the last glass of water in the middle of the desert, and be more open to the possibility of going back to their countries, doing the time, and then begin the immigration process legally. And maybe, illegal immigration would decline and an amnesty that pisses everyone off wouldn't be necessary.

3)No, the penalty should be tougher. ( I don't know what would be tougher, maybe a fine plus the lifetime ban, don't know)

my thoughts as of this moment are on the lines of option 2, open to change if someone has a solid enough argument that would make me reconsider it.

Caro

My answer still stands. If you know the penalty for committing the fraud ... then still commit the fraud and get caught. See ya later !!

You knew the punishment BEFORE committing the fraud.

[GaryC 7]

Of course, I thought I made that clear from the first post, breaking the law should be penalized, no doubt about that.

but that wasn't the question. the question is

Do you think a LIFETIME BAN is a FAIR AND REASONABLE penalty for visa fraud?

1) yes, it's a fair and reasonable penalty.

2)maybe if instead of being LIFETIME BAN, it would be a 3-4 YEARS BAN, illegals wouldn't cling to US soil like it's the last glass of water in the middle of the desert, and be more open to the possibility of going back to their countries, doing the time, and then begin the immigration process legally. And maybe, illegal immigration would decline and an amnesty that pisses everyone off wouldn't be necessary.

3)No, the penalty should be tougher. ( I don't know what would be tougher, maybe a fine plus the lifetime ban, don't know)

my thoughts as of this moment are on the lines of option 2, open to change if someone has a solid enough argument that would make me reconsider it.

Caro

For outright fraud the penalty should be a lifetime ban. If you commit fraud to get in then you have shown a predisposition to other criminal activities. For the 3 and 10 year ban for illegal presence I also think it is fair. A short over-stay on a valid visa is usually forgiven. The 3 year ban is for a longer overstay or for coming in illegally and the 10 year is for a long overstay or a long illegal presence. The rules are the rules. If you want to be here you must follow them.

[JVKn'CVO 11]

Of course, I thought I made that clear from the first post, breaking the law should be penalized, no doubt about that.

but that wasn't the question. the question is

Do you think a LIFETIME BAN is a FAIR AND REASONABLE penalty for visa fraud?

1) yes, it's a fair and reasonable penalty.

2)maybe if instead of being LIFETIME BAN, it would be a 3-4 YEARS BAN, illegals wouldn't cling to US soil like it's the last glass of water in the middle of the desert, and be more open to the possibility of going back to their countries, doing the time, and then begin the immigration process legally. And maybe, illegal immigration would decline and an amnesty that pisses everyone off wouldn't be necessary.

3)No, the penalty should be tougher. ( I don't know what would be tougher, maybe a fine plus the lifetime ban, don't know)

my thoughts as of this moment are on the lines of option 2, open to change if someone has a solid enough argument that would make me reconsider it.

Caro

My answer still stands. If you know the penalty for committing the fraud ... then still commit the fraud and get caught. See ya later !!

You knew the punishment BEFORE committing the fraud.

Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. Or maybe they had such a hard life back in their country that they were desperate. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Then after some time and perspective, they see their mistake and want to do things right and have no possibility to do that without facing poverty and hunger again, for the rest of their lives.

Going back to this show I mentioned, "30 days", you should see the "house" they had back in their home country. and I put house in quotes because no way that could be considered a house. it had no floor. no roof. just some bricks piled up as walls. bugs crawling everywhere. no gas, no electricity. The only source for water was a well that held no more than 3 gallons of brown colored, untreated water. It was just heart breaking.

I still want to make my position clear that I have a deep respect for the law, and that in no way am I "supporting illegal immigration" with what I'm saying. I just like to play devil's advocate. That's all.

Caro

[GaryC 7]

Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. Or maybe they had such a hard life back in their country that they were desperate. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Then after some time and perspective, they see their mistake and want to do things right and have no possibility to do that without facing poverty and hunger again, for the rest of their lives.

Going back to this show I mentioned, "30 days", you should see the "house" they had back in their home country. and I put house in quotes because no way that could be considered a house. it had no floor. no roof. just some bricks piled up as walls. bugs crawling everywhere. no gas, no electricity. The only source for water was a well that held no more than 3 gallons of brown colored, untreated water. It was just heart breaking.

I still want to make my position clear that I have a deep respect for the law, and that in no way am I "supporting illegal immigration" with what I'm saying. I just like to play devil's advocate. That's all.

Caro

The world if filled with desperate people. That is a sad fact of life. But if we were to forgo the rules out of sympathy then very soon our country would be filled with desperate people. We just cannot absorb the worlds problems.

[mawilson 2,133]

Do you think a LIFETIME BAN is a FAIR AND REASONABLE penalty for visa fraud?

I don't believe in LIFETIME anything. Anything can change over a lifetime.

No, I think a lifetime ban is ridiculous.

[natty bumppo 293]

Of course, I thought I made that clear from the first post, breaking the law should be penalized, no doubt about that.

but that wasn't the question. the question is

Do you think a LIFETIME BAN is a FAIR AND REASONABLE penalty for visa fraud?

1) yes, it's a fair and reasonable penalty.

2)maybe if instead of being LIFETIME BAN, it would be a 3-4 YEARS BAN, illegals wouldn't cling to US soil like it's the last glass of water in the middle of the desert, and be more open to the possibility of going back to their countries, doing the time, and then begin the immigration process legally. And maybe, illegal immigration would decline and an amnesty that pisses everyone off wouldn't be necessary.

3)No, the penalty should be tougher. ( I don't know what would be tougher, maybe a fine plus the lifetime ban, don't know)

my thoughts as of this moment are on the lines of option 2, open to change if someone has a solid enough argument that would make me reconsider it.

Caro

My answer still stands. If you know the penalty for committing the fraud ... then still commit the fraud and get caught. See ya later !!

You knew the punishment BEFORE committing the fraud.

Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. Or maybe they had such a hard life back in their country that they were desperate. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Then after some time and perspective, they see their mistake and want to do things right and have no possibility to do that without facing poverty and hunger again, for the rest of their lives.

Going back to this show I mentioned, "30 days", you should see the "house" they had back in their home country. and I put house in quotes because no way that could be considered a house. it had no floor. no roof. just some bricks piled up as walls. bugs crawling everywhere. no gas, no electricity. The only source for water was a well that held no more than 3 gallons of brown colored, untreated water. It was just heart breaking.

I still want to make my position clear that I have a deep respect for the law, and that in no way am I "supporting illegal immigration" with what I'm saying. I just like to play devil's advocate. That's all.

Caro

This person didn't know the law was being broken as they stealthy invaded a foreign country?

This person was not aware of the consequences of being caught? Never “warned and informed” ?

[JVKn'CVO 11]

This person didn't know the law was being broken as they stealthy invaded a foreign country?

This person was not aware of the consequences of being caught? Never “warned and informed” ?

Second scenario for them, they moved out of desperation and after a while (their daughter, also illegal, was applying to college in the US - and got in, by the way- ) they wanted to do things right by the country that has given them so much...but couldn't find the way to do it without being banned forever, and going back to having no floor, no roof, no food, no nothing.

Caro