Is it hopeless to retry for another K1 visa after denial?

[Reconnecting Reco 24]

35 minutes ago, Dataunavailable said:

I am going through the same process as you OP. We are currently in the process of a second K1. It's at USCIS now, awaiting NOA2, hoping in the next month or two. 

 

I want to sympathize with what you are dealing with, it's tough. And even though there are many members here who are extremely knowledgeable and helpful, they have no idea what you are going through on a personal level, all they can go off of is what you say. The immigration process is stressful for both parties. And a denial can be a huge blow, we picked ourselves up from ours, we never fought or argued about it. We went through our paperwork, went through everything really to try and discern what the issue was. I feel it was a culmination of a few things, but keep in mind, nothing to prevent us from refiling. We got a 221G, basically the same like you, it took me going to the embassy in person on another trip to Cambodia to get some sort of answer after a lot of back and forth emails and talks with embassy employees that boiled down to the consular not believing my fiance displayed adequate intent to marry. How that is achieved is beyond me, but, it's the past, we built off of the denial and it strengthened our relationship even more, as we both knew we wanted to be together no matter what happens. 

 

CR1 is the route some people go, it can be refuted unlike a K1 if a denial is received,  but that doesn't necessarily mean that once the CR1 is back to it's specific embassy that an approval is guaranteed. I've spoke with a few lawyers on consultations, never hired one on, as people here are helpful and knowledgeable enough to point you in the right direction,  even with me as I've sometimes not agreed with answers here or felt like there was some disrespect,  I do respect their time spent answering. 

 

But the lawyer I've spoke with explained about a couple who did a spousal Visa, denied and sent back from USCIS to the embassy, denied still, they tried one more time and it was denied again. So just because someone gets married, it doesn't automatically make a Visa 100% guaranteed. It takes away an argument that a couple won't marry within 90 days of arrival, but it's not a golden ticket. 

 

People have different reasons for preferring a K1, I've talked to my fiance and she knows what to expect when she gets here and how it can take time to get things done. A K1 works better for us because to marry in Cambodia, a Male needs to make at least $2500 per month, it also almost seems required to hire what is called a fixer, to speed the process up, which can take anywhere from 20 to 60 days. We also both want my mom and family to be a part of our wedding, my father passed away and my step father is suffering with Lewy body dementia,  he is pretty much house bound with my mother looking after him. My mother has also sent me a letter of her certificate of ministry that she offered to marry us that I sent in with this petition. And my fiance wants that too, she wants my mom to be a part of our wedding, her and my mother have a really great relationship, even though they've never met in person yet. 

 

That is why we choose a K1, now if this is denied, I will do what I can to find a way to marry her in Cambodia, or most likely, some other country that isn't as difficult for a foreigner to marry a citizen. I'm not rich and I'm not poor, I'm just a 37 year old guy with a FT job, I don't have the luxury of being retired and able to travel anytime I want or the luxury of being able to just pick up from work and stay there for months, it just isn't realistic, but that doesn't mean our love for each other is less than a retired man going to the Philippines to see his fiance, or that I don't try as hard. And that's the frustration with this site at times, where it feels that you aren't trying hard enough, or someone else had an easier situation,  so why is yours so difficult. It can be heart breaking and stress inducing, but your love for each other has overcome borders, and it will overcome a denial. 

 

We also made sure this time,  since Cambodia is considered high fraud, to front load a lot more. I included multiple letters of co workers who have known me for a long time, some of them have spoken with my fiance through messages. Letters from my parents, my father before he passed away, correspondence with my congressman etc. Photos, letters of intent and how we met, Facebook posts, skype logs. 

 

We didn't just refile the same thing as last year, I also had another visit before refiling. I will hope everything works our for you, in the end, only you know how important your relationship is to both of you, 

Data you are a godsend and I really appreciate you're sympathy and understanding. This wait has been extremely challenging and if the gamble to try again fails then the next logical step is to get married and try again. I truly hope everything goes your way and she gets approved for the next interview and they see that your relationship is genuine.

[Reconnecting Reco 24]

2 hours ago, Marieke H said:

It's worth it for the lawyer. They get paid for this application, and if/when it gets denied again they will offer to help you with the CR-1 and get more business from you. I would not rely on the lawyer's advice too much here.

 

The CO did not see enough evidence of a real relationship. A good way to prove a real relationship is to get married, and to spend more time together. I would do both, and not risk another K-1 denial. No one can predict if it would get denied or not, but at least you would have options after a CR-1 denial (besides all the other advantages of the CR-1).

 

I get that you want your family to get to know her first, especially your son. However, part of a long distance relationship is that that is not always possible and you have to compromise. Can you take your son with you on one of your trips? Can she Skype with your family? I would have loved for my parents to get to know my husband before we got married, but that just wasn't possible due to financial and health reasons. They ended up coming over for our wedding and met their son in law for the first time 2 days before the wedding. It was strange and awkward, but it was the best we could do. It's about the two of you building a life, with your son, and the rest of your family just may have to wait to get to know her. 

You make a damn good point about the lawyer and to be weary of his advice because I did not see it from this point until you said something. I already filed for another K1 back in October and now that we are halfway there to another interview my optimism is starting to fade and I'm nervous of another denial. I tried looking up if reapplying and getting approved has been done and had difficulty finding any topics on it. I would just hate to have wasted another 9 months on something that may just be impossible to pass regardless of if the relationship is genuine or not.

[Marieke H 2,498]

23 minutes ago, Reconnecting Reco said:

You make a damn good point about the lawyer and to be weary of his advice because I did not see it from this point until you said something. I already filed for another K1 back in October and now that we are halfway there to another interview my optimism is starting to fade and I'm nervous of another denial. I tried looking up if reapplying and getting approved has been done and had difficulty finding any topics on it. I would just hate to have wasted another 9 months on something that may just be impossible to pass regardless of if the relationship is genuine or not.

If you have better and more evidence this time, they might approve her, who knows... as you have already filed all you can do is wait and hope for the best. Good luck!

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

20 hours ago, Ontarkie said:

Sadly your expensive lawyer is not going to be able to help much.

 

You are ignoring what the CO told you to do and that is taking a big chance. Yes marriage is a big deal and it should be taken seriously but filling for a K1 you should already be passed the lets make sure stage and even after all this time and your extra trips you still sounds like you are not sure.

The CO already doesn't believe you're serious and you are going to push it with a second K1. 

So by the time the second interview comes it will be just over 2 yrs since your fiance was denied and probably pushing 3 yrs since you met and filed the first time. 6 visits in 3 yrs is not that great when they already doubt your relationship. How long were each of these visits? 

If you haven't filed another K1 yet please reconsider getting married and filling the for the CR1.

See this is what confuses me, the CO and others saying get married etc in order to get approved... 

 

The way I see it, this is in its self boarderline immigration fraud... getting married for immigration intensive purposes.. people shouldn’t be forced or encouraged to get married before they are ready to do so, just because their chances of being approved may or may not be better than say with a k1 petition.. 

 

the op has already expressed desire to hold off on marriage for various reasons.. perhaps a review of his original petition with additional evidence and further recommendations from us may be enough to get another k1 petition approved. 

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

4 hours ago, Reconnecting Reco said:

I disagree. The k1 wouldn't exist if that was the purpose then it would just be the CR1 visa. If I feel more comfortable getting married in my country after she sees her home for the first time, meet my son and family, and more face to face time that's not honeymoon time then that's my business. Please don't comment anymore on my post if you have no advice to my question. If we get denied again then yes marriage is the only option and I'll have to suck it up but don't say I'm not ready when id rather do it this way.

I think this is one of the massive benifits to k1.. particularly where children are involved..

 

I know it’s not necessarily always a deal breaker, but if the kids and perspective spouse don’t get along or hate each other it is a significant factor when getting married, in addition to the spouses reaction to the USA.. she might hate it there.. 

 

I know to some the USA is a dream location but it isn’t to everyone, I know I took some convincing about relocating there... not because I dislike the USA but when compared with home I don’t think it’s as pretty, it’s far dirtier and way less safer.. 

[Reconnecting Reco 24]

1 minute ago, Duke & Marie said:

I think this is one of the massive benifits to k1.. particularly where children are involved..

 

I know it’s not necessarily always a deal breaker, but if the kids and perspective spouse don’t get along or hate each other it is a significant factor when getting married, in addition to the spouses reaction to the USA.. she might hate it there.. 

 

I know to some the USA is a dream location but it isn’t to everyone, I know I took some convincing about relocating there... not because I dislike the USA but when compared with home I don’t think it’s as pretty, it’s far dirtier and way less safer.. 

Thanks for this. I feel like some people are shunning me for rather doing a K1 than get married as if marriage is an easy thing to conquer. Getting married and staying apart for the first year is something I would not enjoy. Plus you are correct I would want her to see America first and deal with the culture shock of another country. Also she's not a mother and I have a son. I will be bringing her into an entire new life and although I'm positive I want to be with her I want to give her a fair shot at seeing what she's getting into and if it's the life she wants, because once we say "I do" then it's over.

[Boiler 45,486]

More a comment on how the US Immigration system currently fuctions and how to best operate within it.

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

1 minute ago, Reconnecting Reco said:

Thanks for this. I feel like some people are shunning me for rather doing a K1 than get married as if marriage is an easy thing to conquer. Getting married and staying apart for the first year is something I would not enjoy. Plus you are correct I would want her to see America first and deal with the culture shock of another country. Also she's not a mother and I have a son. I will be bringing her into an entire new life and although I'm positive I want to be with her I want to give her a fair shot at seeing what she's getting into and if it's the life she wants, because once we say "I do" then it's over.

Exactly... she may or may not be the motherly type of person, not all women have that instinct and possibly less so when it’s not their own, I’m all for giving her a chance to acquaint herself with your child before getting married.. 

 

good luck with k1 

[Orangesapples 1,954]

49 minutes ago, Duke & Marie said:

People shouldn’t be forced or encouraged to get married before they are ready to do so, just because their chances of being approved may or may not be better than say with a k1 petition.. 

 

If you're applying for a K1, you have to sign a letter of intent that you intend on getting married and you're literally telling USCIS you want to get married. If the K1 had been approved, OP would have married her soon after that anyway. Using a K1 as a try and see visa is not the way it is meant to be used. 

 

Also, leaving your country to move to the US is a big commitment - you quit your job, cut other ties, you uproot your whole life. No one should uproot their whole life so that they can move and maaaaybe get married. 

 

36 minutes ago, Reconnecting Reco said:

Plus you are correct I would want her to see America first and deal with the culture shock of another country. 

90 days is not nearly enough time for anyone to deal with a culture shock. In fact, it might be around that time when the culture shock first starts to settle in. It's much easier to deal with a culture shock if you have something to do, like a job. 

 

36 minutes ago, Reconnecting Reco said:

Thanks for this. I feel like some people are shunning me for rather doing a K1 than get married as if marriage is an easy thing to conquer. Getting married and staying apart for the first year is something I would not enjoy. .

And if you get your K1 denied, you will be away from her 2 more years, I think that's pretty unenjoyable. 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Orangesapples

[dwheels76 5,468]

5 hours ago, Reconnecting Reco said:

They told us what to do but I didn't want to take that path, although I will if she gets denied again. I have a son so I could fly him to see her but mother and test of my family not so much.

And you feel 90 days is all the proof you need to test to see if marriage is best. Sorry but K1 is not a getting to know you visa. You are asking the US government to give your fiance' a visa to come marry you. Your intent to marry is a promise a commitment to marry within that 90 days of arrival.

Maybe they read these trepidation you had and felt you didn't prove a bonafide relationship.

 

You getting a lawyer will not impress them. In my opinion going the 2nd round of same not married visa shows maybe you really aren't serious or committed. Nothing says committed like getting married.

[Duke & Marie 1,389]

54 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

If you're applying for a K1, you have to sign a letter of intent that you intend on getting married and you're literally telling USCIS you want to get married. If the K1 had been approved, OP would have married her soon after that anyway. Using a K1 as a try and see visa is not the way it is meant to be used. 

 

 

No one said it’s a try it and see visa, nor did they mention no intention to marry.. the OP and fiancé have both committed to getting married, ‘when they are ready’ within the guidelines of the visas requirements..

 

if their being ready means after she has met his child, and that’s he’s confirmed that’s she’s a suitable step parent after seeing her physically with his child that’s their choice. There are no rules in the k1 that says you can’t change your mind about marriage.. 

 

If anything thats the smart way to approach marriage especially where kids are involved.. we’d all be the first to jump up and call him irresponsible in a court case if god forbid it didn’t work out and the child was significantly impacted if he hadn’t.  we’d be like wow, you got married and hadn’t even introduced them, just moved her in and expected everything to be sunshine and rainbows.. please.. 

 

in the ideal world world she would have already met the child, but given her location, ability to travel and possibly the child’s ability to travel this isn’t always possible.. so make sense to utilise k1 for this purpose as part of the whole marriage process.

Edited January 18, 2020 by Duke & Marie

[Orangesapples 1,954]

12 minutes ago, Duke & Marie said:

No one said it’s a try it and see visa, nor did they mention no intention to marry.. 

That's actually exactly what you and the OP are saying. 

12 minutes ago, Duke & Marie said:

.. we’d all be the first to jump up and call him irresponsible in a court case if god forbid it didn’t work out and the child was significantly impacted if he hadn’t.  we’d be like wow, you got married and hadn’t even introduced them, just moved her in and expected everything to be sunshine and rainbows.. please.. 

 

Oh, I see, it's very responsible to instead have someone uproot their entire life without any certainty. Also, whether they're married or not, he will move her in when she comes unless he intends to let her be homeless before they're married. 

 

OP is obviously not committed enough. No wonder he got denied. 

[Dataunavailable 82]

2 hours ago, Reconnecting Reco said:

You make a damn good point about the lawyer and to be weary of his advice because I did not see it from this point until you said something. I already filed for another K1 back in October and now that we are halfway there to another interview my optimism is starting to fade and I'm nervous of another denial. I tried looking up if reapplying and getting approved has been done and had difficulty finding any topics on it. I would just hate to have wasted another 9 months on something that may just be impossible to pass regardless of if the relationship is genuine or not.

It's not unheard of, as long as you can overcome the reason for the denial, you have a chance. The embassy was running me back and forth, I spoke with them right after the denial through emails, I went there in person in May 2019 at 8am on a Tues, was told to come back later as the person that does petitioner meetings isn't there until later. We went to see Avengera Endgame and came back at noon, a new guy at the window, I'm now told to email a request for appointment. Email them, no response until a day before I leave that I can come anytime Mon and Tues from 1-2pm for petitioner questions.  I explained how I was there, no one told me to come back at that specific time, I finally got an email with them saying "not displaying adequate intent to marry". 

 

So, even finding the reason for denial itself is a struggle. I went to my congressmans office and they did an official inquiry, which was the same generic 221G, didn't beleive the relationship was legitimate that I first received after her denial. 

 

Did you go with to the first interview? I ask because I did not know that it was something that should be done, I didn't know of this website until after the denial, I just followed what USCIS had as a guide, with her next interview,  I have my vacation for the year since it just reset in January and plan on using that for the interview, be there a week before and a week after, it's depressing,  but all I can get is about 3 weeks a year and the last 2 years have been spent going there with it, I really wish I had more vacation so I can spend more time there, but we do what we can right.  

[Dataunavailable 82]

14 minutes ago, Orangesapples said:

Oh, I see, it's very responsible to instead have someone uproot their entire life without any certainty.

Not to be disrespectful,  but is that also not the responsibility of the beneficiary as well, to understand what the Visa entails and the circumstances that come with it? To understand if that is what her or she wants to do? 

[Orangesapples 1,954]

14 minutes ago, Dataunavailable said:

Not to be disrespectful,  but is that also not the responsibility of the beneficiary as well, to understand what the Visa entails and the circumstances that come with it? To understand if that is what her or she wants to do? 

Does she know her stay in the US will be a test run to see if your mom approves? 

 

I came on a K1 and there was never a question of whether we will get married, only how to do it as soon as possible. I would never have gotten on the plane otherwise and no one should. 

 

Also, your SO is supposed to look out for you and your best interest, not claim it's your responsibility and your risk. If you can't give your fiance security, what's the point of the relationship. 

 

Reading this makes me feel so grateful for my own spouse who would never have pulled anything like this. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Orangesapples