Trump's proposed wine tariffs will hurt Americans, not the French

[90DayFinancier 910]

25 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

What alcohol is enjoyable to some is not enjoyable to another. Why I thought America was all about freedom and there used to be a time when people were like ''booo taxes iz r evilz". Tariffs are taxes of course, but you know that.

 

Marylanders are the ultimate wine snobs though with all of our strange import law nonsense. I can't say I've tasted a French wine yet, but there are so many fine in-state wines we are spoiled for choice. Alas I'm being told I need to give the ol' liver a rest for a while, but I will longingly dream while you guys argue over which wine is elitist.

I have a Dutch friend who takes a break from alcohol the month of January.  He swears by Milk Thistle as a tonic to improve the liver, I have no idea if that works.   To your health!

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

42 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

What alcohol is enjoyable to some is not enjoyable to another. Why I thought America was all about freedom and there used to be a time when people were like ''booo taxes iz r evilz". Tariffs are taxes of course, but you know that.

Actually, that concept (or rather, caricature) of tariffs are taxes in the political world was popularized by supply side neocons, the Koch's, Reagan, Bushes. I find this a fitting alliance for the left, shortly ago the anti-globalist, anti-corporate culture jamming stalwarts, also of "freedom", taking up the economic/political causes of last generation's neocons. 🤔 Politics makes strange bedfellows.

 

In reality:

- Tariffs have always been a default for foreign trade to protect national sovereignty

- Free trade deals only came around just after the Reagan admin, which gave rise to what we call neoliberalism (basically neoconservatism but with more leftist social slant, resisted by the mainstream left up until Obama)

- The premise of Trump's tariffs were known months ago, retaliation for taxes upon American companies

- It's a trade strategy, not an indefinite tariff, unless France persists, which they won't

- Trump has been successful with these, so people using 2016 election night scare tactics will obviously fall upon deaf ears, or at least, be mocked, for good reason

 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Problem solved...

 

 

FTW

[laylalex 7,300]

Why no one sees this as a problem for DOMESTIC wine production is beyond me. Why should we be hurting AMERICAN industry like this? Because wine drinkers are elitists who don't deserve to have a "luxury"? I thought we were supposed to be (1) supporting American industry and (2) rejecting the idea that everyone should be happy with whatever the government says is what we get? Like, no wine for you at affordable prices, you can drink Natty Light and like it because otherwise you're an elitist.

 

So ridiculous. I buy American whenever and wherever I can. I pay a premium for it. But wine -- like other foods -- is a matter of taste. Sometimes I want something I can only get that's French. That doesn't make me elitist, it makes me someone who knows what she likes.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

It's funny, you say its not about CNN, but you're literally regurgitating their amusing op-ed piece in the OP where they fabricate this "Trump vs. the elite lefty wine drinkers" conflict.

 

Here's a hint on what its about:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/02/business/trump-tariff-france.html

Quote

 

The Trump administration said on Monday that a new French tax that hit American technology companies discriminated against the United States, a declaration that could lead to retaliatory tariffs as high as 100 percent on French wines.

It could also jeopardize international efforts to negotiate a truce on so-called digital taxes.

The announcement from the Office of the United States Trade Representative ended a monthslong investigation into the French tax, which hits companies like Facebook and Google even though they have little physical presence in France. The investigation concluded that the tax “discriminates against U.S. companies, is inconsistent with prevailing principles of international tax policy and is unusually burdensome for affected U.S. companies.”

It recommended tariffs as high as 100 percent on certain French imports valued at $2.4 billion, including cheese, wine and handbags.

President Trump, in London on Tuesday for a NATO summit meeting, said the finding was justified. “They’re starting to tax other people’s products,” he said. “So therefore we go and tax them.”

 

Recap:

- It has nothing to do with your freedom

- It doesn't affect your freedom

- Doesn't have anything to do with the target demographic CNN told you it does

- Doesn't have to do with Trump getting back at any demographic CNN told you he's doing

 

It's clearly trade strategy, retaliating for poor actions by the French. As I said earlier, it was literally known months ago that this would happen and why. Even when the truth is placed in front of people, they'll still go with what conforms to a narrative. 😂 That's why CNN does what it does, and readers/viewers do what they do.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

55 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Why no one sees this as a problem for DOMESTIC wine production is beyond me. Why should we be hurting AMERICAN industry like this? Because wine drinkers are elitists who don't deserve to have a "luxury"? I thought we were supposed to be (1) supporting American industry and (2) rejecting the idea that everyone should be happy with whatever the government says is what we get? Like, no wine for you at affordable prices, you can drink Natty Light and like it because otherwise you're an elitist.

 

So ridiculous. I buy American whenever and wherever I can. I pay a premium for it. But wine -- like other foods -- is a matter of taste. Sometimes I want something I can only get that's French. That doesn't make me elitist, it makes me someone who knows what she likes.

If never a bottle of French wine crossed into America, ever again, that would HELP domestic wine production, I would think.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

6 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

If never a bottle of French wine crossed into America, ever again, that would HELP domestic wine production, I would think.

All those rich wine production workers in wine country CA need to learn to code. Or at least, learn French. 

 

/protecting the middle class

 

That evil orange man trying to tell people what to drink, infringing on the freedom of America. 

 

PS, tax and ban smokers/smoking, people using straws, drinking soda, gasoline, using improper pronouns, etc.. only the rich does that stuff, and if the middle class did that stuff, these taxes and bans are for their own good anyways.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

Here is the thing. The EU tariffs on American wine are much higher than the tariffs we put on French wine. Take all the anti Trump spin off of it, and it makes perfect sense to expect a fair comprable tariff to help open the EU market to American wine

 

Don't let common sense and logic get in the way of anything you can find to re enforce a hatred of Trump. 

 

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-french-wine-tariffs-trump-20190610-story.html

The U.S. charges a tariff of 5 cents per 750-milliliter bottle of imported still wine and 14 cents for sparkling wine, according to the Wine Institute, an advocacy group for California winemakers. European Union tariffs for imported wine range from 11 cents to 29 cents per bottle, according to the group.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Nature Boy 2.0

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

10 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Dunno about you, but I'll go for a wine country scotch ale:

 

 

Thanks to Canadian import costs, and us being at the behest of the province purchasing all the beer we can legally buy (and selling it to any liquor stores), 13 Canadian pesos a bottle.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Burnt Reynolds

[90DayFinancier 910]

13 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

PBR pairs well with ribs and deep fried Mac and cheese 😋...

[Dashinka 24,745]

3 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

So you are ok with levying taxes on modest income families who want to enjoy a French wine, they really should , in your mind,bbe drinking a shopisticated Penfolds wine because you know what tastes better.

 

Sounds elitist to me. 

Like I said, I could not care less what people choose to spend their disposable income on.  If folks want to buy French wine let them, it is still available, it will just cost a little more.  The entire point of the articles linked is that the US was taken advantage of with respect to trading, and it is time to stop taking it without fighting back.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

9 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Like I said, I could not care less what people choose to spend their disposable income on.  If folks want to buy French wine let them, it is still available, it will just cost a little more.  The entire point of the articles linked is that the US was taken advantage of with respect to trading, and it is time to stop taking it without fighting back.

such basic commons sense isn't it. 

[laylalex 7,300]

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

If never a bottle of French wine crossed into America, ever again, that would HELP domestic wine production, I would think.

Did you even read that article about why the American wine industry is going to be affected, or are you just guessing? 

 

Why does NO ONE care about the American wine industry here?

 

Is Reuters acceptable? 

Quote

 

Ben Aneff, managing director of Tribeca Wine Merchants, a retail wine store in New York, said the existing and threatened tariffs posed the “the greatest threat to the wine industry since Prohibition,” the U.S. ban on the sale and import of alcoholic beverages that lasted from 1920 to 1933.

“The domino effect of unintended consequences from the proposed tariffs would be catastrophic for tens of thousands of American businesses,” Aneff told U.S. government officials at a hearing hosted by USTR on the French tariff issue.

The Wine & Spirits Wholesalers of America estimates that 100% tariffs on French sparkling wines alone would trim overall U.S. wine sales by nearly 2%, resulting in the loss of 17,000 jobs and a cost to the U.S. economy of $2 billion.

Wine experts say consumers have strong loyalty to specific products, such as Champagne from France, and will not readily adopt substitutes.

Overall, the tariffs on European wines were expected to cost some $10 billion in lost revenue and 78,000 job losses, hitting the nation’s 47,000 wine retailers and more than 6,500 importers and distributors disproportionately hard, Aneff said.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-france/u-s-wine-industry-fears-armageddon-of-costs-from-tariffs-on-french-imports-idUSKBN1Z7014

 

How about Fortune?

Quote

For now, the 25% tariff is deeply painful, but not necessarily a mortal threat to the trade. Trump’s threatened 100% tariff, on the other hand, would be a seismic jolt. “It will pretty much mean the destruction of the modern wine industry as we know it,” says Steve Melchisky, president and owner of USA Wine West LLC, from his base in Portland, Maine.

https://fortune.com/2020/01/10/french-wine-tariffs-burgundy-importers/

 

Just because you don't care about or for French wine doesn't mean that American jobs aren't going to be impacted. This isn't a elitist v. "real" Americans fight (what, I'm not a real American because I like French wine?) it's a "why is this tariff being put in place" issue. If the issue is about Boeing, why are the tariffs so much higher (25% currently, up to 100% potentially) for wine than they are for the air industry (10%)? Oh, boo hoo hoo, rich liberals crying into their wine. That is not the story. Our own domestic market is going to be affected -- we are going to feel this more than the French. It has nothing -- in my opinion, for me-- to do with Trump as a person. This is just dumb and shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Look, I love Californian wine. I drink it. I just spent this past weekend in Paso Robles drinking quite a bit of it. But not everything I like in terms of wine is domestic, even though I would say the bulk (~75%) of what I drink is from California/Oregon. These tariffs aren't going to get us US wine rebranded as "Freedom Wine" -- Americans -- real Americans -- are going to pay with it at the register AND in jobs. 

 

Whatever, you guys are going to hate on me because I'm supposedly an elitist. I've got an apartment to set up and it's a beautiful day in Santa Monica.  I can see from Google Maps there's a great wine bar around the corner -- maybe I'll pop in.  

[Dashinka 24,745]

47 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Did you even read that article about why the American wine industry is going to be affected, or are you just guessing? 

 

Why does NO ONE care about the American wine industry here?

 

Is Reuters acceptable? 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-france/u-s-wine-industry-fears-armageddon-of-costs-from-tariffs-on-french-imports-idUSKBN1Z7014

 

How about Fortune?

https://fortune.com/2020/01/10/french-wine-tariffs-burgundy-importers/

 

Just because you don't care about or for French wine doesn't mean that American jobs aren't going to be impacted. This isn't a elitist v. "real" Americans fight (what, I'm not a real American because I like French wine?) it's a "why is this tariff being put in place" issue. If the issue is about Boeing, why are the tariffs so much higher (25% currently, up to 100% potentially) for wine than they are for the air industry (10%)? Oh, boo hoo hoo, rich liberals crying into their wine. That is not the story. Our own domestic market is going to be affected -- we are going to feel this more than the French. It has nothing -- in my opinion, for me-- to do with Trump as a person. This is just dumb and shooting ourselves in the foot.

 

Look, I love Californian wine. I drink it. I just spent this past weekend in Paso Robles drinking quite a bit of it. But not everything I like in terms of wine is domestic, even though I would say the bulk (~75%) of what I drink is from California/Oregon. These tariffs aren't going to get us US wine rebranded as "Freedom Wine" -- Americans -- real Americans -- are going to pay with it at the register AND in jobs. 

 

Whatever, you guys are going to hate on me because I'm supposedly an elitist. I've got an apartment to set up and it's a beautiful day in Santa Monica.  I can see from Google Maps there's a great wine bar around the corner -- maybe I'll pop in.  

Some big assumptions in the Fortune article, but the basics are that fair trade is a two way street.