Iowa Man Gets 16 Years for Burning LGBT Flag

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

24 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

The primary amplifiers are for repeat offenses. Similarly, a leftist knee jerk article, if anyone remembers the infamous 99 cent donut guy, was given life in prison. So a typical clickbait like article spawning all over the place would suggest he got 99 cents for donut theft. In reality, he was a serial offender who committed his third felony (under a three strikes rule which results in automatic life sentence), not by stealing a donut, but by committing "strong arm robbery" when he put his hands on the person trying to stop him. 

 

Some people are simply bad. This person demonstrated in court during sentencing he would do it again (threaten the bar, commit arson again, promote hate toward LGBT) the second he's let out. It's not a person you should weep for, they are unequivocally a criminal who doesn't learn, and deserves to be away from the public for a very long time. Why should the public suffer a person like this?

 

The situation here, despite how loudly both partisan sides are screaming their own narratives, really isn't much about the LGBT flag thing, is more about a person acting dangerously and being a threat to people, repeatedly.

 

 

This basically just reiterates what I said. He faced a max 5 years hate crime amplifier, but got two. The amplifier that mattered was the repeat offender thing, and he has a history of harassment, threats, etc.

I don't know where you are getting your info from.  I have read 5 different news sources, and nothing says what he did before (the repeat offender part).  Nothing says he came out of a bar (where did you read this?) and did what he did.  He said he did it (burned the LGBTQ flag that he took from the church), and would do it again.  

 

Quote

Martinez told police he had ripped the flag down and had set it ablaze with lighter fluid because he is against homosexuality. 

 

 

Quote

He declined to give his side of the story and said: 'It is my honor, it is written, it is a judgement and it is written to execute vengeance on the heathen and punishments upon the people. 

'It is my honor to do so, and it is an honor to that. It is a blessing from the Lord, plain and simple.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7810925/Man-tore-burned-LGBTQ-flag-flying-Iowa-church-jailed.html

[Boiler 46,651]

BBC mentioned a history, just seemed that in true Drive By fashion many sources went for a click bate heading with no meat.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

10 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I don't know where you are getting your info from.  I have read 5 different news sources, and nothing says what he did before (the repeat offender part).  Nothing says he came out of a bar (where did you read this?) and did what he did.  He said he did it (burned the LGBTQ flag that he took from the church), and would do it again.  

 

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7810925/Man-tore-burned-LGBTQ-flag-flying-Iowa-church-jailed.html

I'll see if I can TeamViewer to my PC and get the history in time before I get kicked out as their dumb system believes I'm a commercial user. 

 

I read articles that mentioned his prior related history, but also I don't think I ever said he came out of the bar to burn the flag, it's definitely an error I'd admit to if you cite it and I'm too lazy to check atm. The articles I read (one from a local paper) said he had been kicked out of the bar and he repeatedly threatened them including threats to burn down the bar the next time he came back. He tore down the flag from a church, and used that along with other things to commit arson outside the bar. I haven't read yet how close he was to the bar, but his actions do show the "hate" intent. That being said, it seems you're not contesting anymore the lack of centrality of "hate" to the punishment, hopefully you recognize that the article cited was basically clickbait. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,396]

28 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I don't know where you are getting your info from.  I have read 5 different news sources, and nothing says what he did before (the repeat offender part).  Nothing says he came out of a bar (where did you read this?) and did what he did.  He said he did it (burned the LGBTQ flag that he took from the church), and would do it again.  

 

 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7810925/Man-tore-burned-LGBTQ-flag-flying-Iowa-church-jailed.html

and i dont believe in hate crimes.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

and i dont believe in hate crimes.

Me neither. It's a crime or its not. Motivation is already factored so it makes little sense to add more judgment to intent, it just turns into an appeal to emotion which is a fallacy that shouldn't be guiding laws.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,396]

2 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Me neither. It's a crime or its not. Motivation is already factored so it makes little sense to add more judgment to intent, it just turns into an appeal to emotion which is a fallacy that shouldn't be guiding laws.

Assault is assault. To me the idea that you get much more time, because of a persons skin color is a tad Racist 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

The context of this person and what they did was not fully elaborated on by the article, despite the mountain of text and long rants about burning the US flag. And when they don't bother doing this, I can safely assume the intent was emotional bait.

 

Things they didn't want to elaborate on:

- This was retaliation to being thrown out of a bar

- He then made threats to burn down the bar, tore down a LGBT flag from a church and burned it outside the bar, along with other things

- Of those 17 years (no idea why they say 16), 15 are for arson/harassment/habitual offender amplifiers, and two years are for the "hate crime" amplifier it's not that many years for "hate"

- This person has a criminal history

- At his sentencing, he threatened he would do it again if released

 

This is basically a threatening bad person with a criminal history doing bad things and getting a very long sentence to the relief of the local community. It's not about burning an LGBT flag.

 

27 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

I'll see if I can TeamViewer to my PC and get the history in time before I get kicked out as their dumb system believes I'm a commercial user. 

 

I read articles that mentioned his prior related history, but also I don't think I ever said he came out of the bar to burn the flag, it's definitely an error I'd admit to if you cite it and I'm too lazy to check atm. The articles I read (one from a local paper) said he had been kicked out of the bar and he repeatedly threatened them including threats to burn down the bar the next time he came back. He tore down the flag from a church, and used that along with other things to commit arson outside the bar. I haven't read yet how close he was to the bar, but his actions do show the "hate" intent. That being said, it seems you're not contesting anymore the lack of centrality of "hate" to the punishment, hopefully you recognize that the article cited was basically clickbait. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by ALFKAD

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

56 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

 

Yep, I didn't say he "came out of a bar", he was kicked out of a bar, and it probably doesn't require much imagination to figure out why. That was the bar he threatened, and outside of which he committed the act he was arrested/charged/convicted/sentenced for. I don't get what the issue is with this part.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

TeamViewer works so for the few minutes I have:

 

https://www.amestrib.com/news/20191219/ames-flag-burner-sentenced-to-17-years-in-prison

 

Quote

Adolfo Martinez, 30, was convicted by a jury in November of a hate crime, third-degree harassment and being a habitual offender, which is associated with previous reckless use of fire crimes.

 

Quote

All three crimes were to be served concurrent as the habitual offender charge carries a 15 year sentence and hate crime two years.

 

Quote

Prior to his final sentencing Martinez gave his impact statement, and indicated that he would never stop, and was ‘living by God’s laws,’ Reynolds said.

 

Quote

On June 11, Ames Police responded to a call at the Dangerous Curves gentleman’s club at 111 Fifth St., because a

man was making threats and acting disorderly. When officers arrived at the scene, Martinez had been kicked out.

 

Later that night, Martinez returned to the club and told an employee that he wanted to burn a pride flag, and was going to burn down the club.

 

He left the club and returned with a pride flag and burned it along Fifth Street, authorities previously told the Tribune.

 

 

I really hope this helps resolve that the focus on "hate crime" is clearly clickbait (from either side). This was a dangerous person, a violent person, a person who doesn't learn from prior crimes, clearly a hateful one too, has unequivocally stated their intent to commit further crimes, and I doubt anyone in that Iowa town is sad he's in prison for a while. They were rather lenient in the sense that he's allowed parole hearings after 3 years.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

3 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

TeamViewer works so for the few minutes I have:

 

https://www.amestrib.com/news/20191219/ames-flag-burner-sentenced-to-17-years-in-prison

 

 

 

 

I’ll trust you.  It is blocked by a subscription page to me.  But as I said, none of the articles I read mentioned him having been in the club.

 

And regardless, I still think 16 years is an egregiously long sentence.  People spend less time in jail for rape and murder.  Burning a pride flag is nowhere near as bad as those crimes.   People who have taken and burned US and rebel flags who were proud of their actions ever went to jail AFAIK.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

16 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I’ll trust you.  It is blocked by a subscription page to me.  But as I said, none of the articles I read mentioned him having been in the club.

 

And regardless, I still think 16 years is an egregiously long sentence.  People spend less time in jail for rape and murder.  Burning a pride flag is nowhere near as bad as those crimes.   People who have taken and burned US and rebel flags who were proud of their actions ever went to jail AFAIK.

It's a subscription? Weird, I can see the full article without one, probably the ad/script blocker.

 

The mistake you're making again though is centralizing the "pride"/"hate" flag thing. You need to get past that. One source cited in this thread (not sure if it was by me, or you, or someone else) said the hate crime punishment carried a potential max of 5 years (the source I read this morning and now cited above said two years for the hate crime is what was decided), so very clearly the extent of this was not the "hate crime". The vast majority of his sentence is unambiguously the "repeat offender" amplifier due to his priors on arson/fire. You can't start fires in a street (outside the place in question) while making threats to that place (bar/club) that you're going to burn it down because you got kicked out. Pretty simple. Is someone setting fires to buildings and making threats, having priors for arson crimes that egregious? Hell yes. People die from fires, especially in buildings like bars/clubs. We've seen videos of this from accidental fires, so how is it small to threaten to burn down a place? It's not a petty crime.

 

Also: His threats were to burn the flag, then burn the place down. We have #1 down.. do you wait for #2 to happen before you take it seriously? He already demonstrated by coming back, before even committing #1 how serious he was. Not a good person. A violent, and dangerous+hateful person. Deserves to be in prison.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds