Christianity Today editor calls for Trump to be removed from office

[yuna628 9,676]

1 hour ago, Bill & Katya said:

Apparently there are a lot of evangelical Democrats out there.  Who knew.

Can anyone make a principled decision in accordance with their religious beliefs contrary to others and not be labeled as a liberal, democrat, lefty, or scum?

[Boiler 45,486]

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Can anyone make a principled decision in accordance with their religious beliefs contrary to others and not be labeled as a liberal, democrat, lefty, or scum?

Usually it is the other way around, just look at the J K Rowling current thingy.

[yuna628 9,676]

Just now, Boiler said:

Usually it is the other way around, just look at the J K Rowling current thingy.

Well I'm not getting into that mess. But i'm just ruminating. Christianity is a religion of consistently disagreeing with different aspects of faith and thusly having different congregations but always acknowledging the same goal for the most part. CT has remained silent for a long time and took a stand on something they have thought about obviously.

[90DayFinancier 910]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Franklin Graham slams Christianity Today for invoking father's name in call for Trump's removal

 

https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-graham-christianity-today-remove-billy-franklin-impeach

Franklin Graham should not be the one throwing stones on the subject of politicizing ones faith.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

1 hour ago, fascinating123 said:

The fact is Trump, like his predecessors, has violated his oath to uphold the Constitution. The commander in chief has continued to wage wars across the globe, wars that were never authorized by a congressional declaration of war. The raid he authorized in Yemen in January 2017 resulted in the murder of an 8 year old American girl, Nawar al-Awlaki by a member of US armed forces. Trump has never denied that he ordered those troops into Yemen and there has never been a congressional declaration of war on Yemen. That raid was unconstitutional, and as such Trump should be impeached and removed from office. And yes, this means that Bush and Obama should have had the same fate, the fact that they didn't is unfortunate, but not an excuse for continued abuse of presidential power to wage war. 

 

I don't care about phone calls to Ukraine or threats to withhold money from Ukraine because I don't think the US government should be dispersing money to other countries. I care about limited government and opposing empire. You won't see anyone from "the resistance" mentioning the above reasoning for impeaching Trump because they want the same war making power when their person is in office. The whole thing is a sick joke, meanwhile people are dying and resources are being thrown away for destructive purposes. It's disgusting and it's long been the end of the republic. 

Her father was a top Al Qaeda terrorist  Anwar al-Awlaki. Typical  kind of radical murder. Busted for prostitution . Mentored 3 of the 9-11 hijackers, described by Saudi officials  as the Bin Laden of the internet, you get the picture  A real scum coward piece of trash. Wanted dead or alive by the Yemeni govt and placed on a CIA kill list by Obama. His own Muslim govts ordered him killed.

 

  While the death of this angelic looking innocent 8 year old is tragic, and I am no way minimizing the tragedy,  her death lies squarely on the shoulders of her father and other Al Qaeda leaders  who are well known for hiding women and children in Al Qaeda terrorist compounds. Sacrifice for the PR. Hezbollah does it all the time. The fire rockets from schools and hospitals, so that when the counter artillery comes, and it will, they can blame Israel for killing innocents. 

 

I would also note that an American hero, tier one operator lost his life in that raid, during which women were carrying weapons and firing on the seal team. 

 

In closing I also mourn the loss of many many 10's of  1000's of innocent women and children, that have been brutally tortured and executed around the globe by ISIS and other radical extremist Islamic groups. I just hope one day the many millions of decent god fearing Muslims around the globe, can help stamp out the cancer in its ranks

[fascinating123 38]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Her father was a top Al Qaeda terrorist  Anwar al-Awlaki. Typical  kind of radical murder. Busted for prostitution . Mentored 3 of the 9-11 hijackers, described by Saudi officials  as the Bin Laden of the internet, you get the picture  A real scum coward piece of trash. Wanted dead or alive by the Yemeni govt and placed on a CIA kill list by Obama. His own Muslim govts ordered him killed.

 

  While the death of this angelic looking innocent 8 year old is tragic, and I am no way minimizing the tragedy,  her death lies squarely on the shoulders of her father and other Al Qaeda leaders  who are well known for hiding women and children in Al Qaeda terrorist compounds. Sacrifice for the PR. Hezbollah does it all the time. The fire rockets from schools and hospitals, so that when the counter artillery comes, and it will, they can blame Israel for killing innocents. 

 

I would also note that an American hero, tier one operator lost his life in that raid, during which women were carrying weapons and firing on the seal team. 

 

In closing I also mourn the loss of many many 10's of  1000's of innocent women and children, that have been brutally tortured and executed around the globe by ISIS and other radical extremist Islamic groups. I just hope one day the many millions of decent god fearing Muslims around the globe, can help stamp out the cancer in its ranks

 

I'm sure her father was not a good person, however he was never tried, nor indicted for any crimes. He was simply labeled a terrorist and a murder bot was sent to kill him. Maybe you find comfort in that, I find that terrifying. 

 

Further, there is no provision in the Constitution allowing the president to deploy troops to another country without a declaration of war from Congress. Roosevelt couldn't even take out Hitler without having Congress' blessing. There has not been a declaration of war on Yemen. There hasn't been a declaration of war on Pakistan, or any number of other countries where American troops are deployed or where our drone bombers have flown. If it's so important or if these enemies are such an existential threat to the existence of the United States (which I find doubtful considering they have no air force nor navy) then it's important enough to declare war. 

 

We're going to wake up one day (maybe in 10 years, maybe in 50) and someone truly evil will be president. And he or she will have at their disposal an entire imperial apparatus that they can use in whatever way they wish. There's a reason the founders put limits on the power of government and the power of the president specifically. To so casually dismiss these limits because you have a momentary feeling of fear of someone thousands of miles away is dangerous. I truly hope I don't get a chance to tell you I told you so. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

Just now, fascinating123 said:

 

I'm sure her father was not a good person, however he was never tried, nor indicted for any crimes. He was simply labeled a terrorist and a murder bot was sent to kill him. Maybe you find comfort in that, I find that terrifying. 

 

Further, there is no provision in the Constitution allowing the president to deploy troops to another country without a declaration of war from Congress. Roosevelt couldn't even take out Hitler without having Congress' blessing. There has not been a declaration of war on Yemen. There hasn't been a declaration of war on Pakistan, or any number of other countries where American troops are deployed or where our drone bombers have flown. If it's so important or if these enemies are such an existential threat to the existence of the United States (which I find doubtful considering they have no air force nor navy) then it's important enough to declare war. 

 

We're going to wake up one day (maybe in 10 years, maybe in 50) and someone truly evil will be president. And he or she will have at their disposal an entire imperial apparatus that they can use in whatever way they wish. There's a reason the founders put limits on the power of government and the power of the president specifically. To so casually dismiss these limits because you have a momentary feeling of fear of someone thousands of miles away is dangerous. I truly hope I don't get a chance to tell you I told you so. 

Actually he was found guilty by a Yemeni court 

[Boiler 45,486]

I always feel troubled about what happened to Adolf, no trial no conviction, nothing.

 

(PS Congress has the power to declare war, deploy troops, how would or could that ever work?)

[fascinating123 38]

2 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Actually he was found guilty by a Yemeni court 

 

And yet taken out by an American drone. I suppose if a Yemeni drone executed an American criminal you'd be ok with that. 

 

The excuse for empire is unbelievable. 

[fascinating123 38]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

I always feel troubled about what happened to Adolf, no trial no conviction, nothing.

 

(PS Congress has the power to declare war, deploy troops, how would or could that ever work?)

 

Congress has the power to declare war, yes. The president doesn't have the Constitutional authority to just wage war without said declaration however. What we've had for several years now (this is not a problem that started with Trump at all) is unchecked presidential war-making. Deploying troops, flying drones hither and yon, domestic spying, etc. These are all unconstitutional, unless of course we've come to a point where the constitution can be twisted to remove all real meaning from its words. 

[Boiler 45,486]

We only have to see what Progressives are trying to do with the second amendment.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

7 minutes ago, fascinating123 said:

 

And yet taken out by an American drone. I suppose if a Yemeni drone executed an American criminal you'd be ok with that. 

 

The excuse for empire is unbelievable. 

Actually yes. If the Yemeni govt had taken him out I would have been just as giddy

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

12 minutes ago, fascinating123 said:

 

Congress has the power to declare war, yes. The president doesn't have the Constitutional authority to just wage war without said declaration however. What we've had for several years now (this is not a problem that started with Trump at all) is unchecked presidential war-making. Deploying troops, flying drones hither and yon, domestic spying, etc. These are all unconstitutional, unless of course we've come to a point where the constitution can be twisted to remove all real meaning from its words. 

Clearly Congress cares less and less about the Constitution. The abuse we're seeing happening via FISA courts, which should've never spawned to begin with, demonstrates precisely why we have certain protections and government limitations -- we have to have a government that makes informed choices that can be checked rather than secretive/knee-jerk ones beyond public scrutiny. We seem to forget this every time a bad situation happens, ceding more authority to the government, which winds up making its way mostly to the executive, and mostly the new-fangled fourth branch which is the investigative/intelligence bureaus (USIC) that now believe (through their actions) they are the ones that craft foreign policy and decide who wins the Presidency. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[Dashinka 24,492]

54 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

Can anyone make a principled decision in accordance with their religious beliefs contrary to others and not be labeled as a liberal, democrat, lefty, or scum?

People make different decisions all the time.  The theme of this thread is “Oh no, the Christians are turning against Trump” implying in the true spirit of identity politics, that they vote in lock step GOP/Trump.  People make personal choices all the time based on a multitude of factors, but we are told to think that an editorial in a small circulation targeted media source will mean the end of evangelical support for Trump.  I am pretty certain a lot of evangelical Christians did not vote for Trump in 2016, who they vote for in 2020 is their own decision.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

8 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

People make different decisions all the time.  The theme of this thread is “Oh no, the Christians are turning against Trump” implying in the true spirit of identity politics, that they vote in lock step GOP/Trump.  People make personal choices all the time based on a multitude of factors, but we are told to think that an editorial in a small circulation targeted media source will mean the end of evangelical support for Trump.  I am pretty certain a lot of evangelical Christians did not vote for Trump in 2016, who they vote for in 2020 is their own decision.

Not only that but the premise of this topic is the identity of the person as a cause for validating views rather than evidence for said views (as in, Trump has done something necessitating impeachment, particularly on the Ukraine matter). Unfortunately a lot of people are focusing on the "Christians", but there's no reason for this discussion, that's not the point of it, the point is "here's a Christian who hates Trump therefore my TDS is valid".

Edited December 20, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds