ircling the Square of President Trump’s Relationship With Race

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

I keep hearing how Trump is a racist.  People I know actually believe it is true.  I just don't get it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/us/politics/trump-blacks-african-americans-girlfriend-charlottesville.html

[Steeleballz 7,550]

34 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

I keep hearing how Trump is a racist.  People I know actually believe it is true.  I just don't get it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/us/politics/trump-blacks-african-americans-girlfriend-charlottesville.html

 

 

   If we are to discuss the merits of the allegations of racism against Trump in this forum, we could probably do better than to begin with an opinion article from 2017.  Do we have a forum for out of date events and mundane topics? 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

My opinion on this really tailors to the intellectual depth the conversation wants to go to. If we're sticking what always amounts to the superficial part, no, Trump is not racist. But, if anyone wants to bother going into depth about racism, it looks to me like racism is a lot like sexuality, and represents a spectrum, rather than some binary switch (on/off, or racist/not racist). I've seen far too much evidence in my own life, never mind my own research, that pretty much everyone (as in, humans of every race) are "racists", and it's a matter of position along a spectrum of biases that is a determinant of how much, of which sociological/sociocultural/personal animus (and possible genetic) factors influence those biases internally, and how they manifest themselves externally. The external basis is generally what people look at, superficially, because we can't really dig into every single person's psyche to find out where on that spectrum they are, and for all intents and purposes, they can (and do) change. But since we primarily judge by a person's actions (the superficial part, as in, exclusively some of the external basis), it's clear by this basis Trump isn't a racist.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

56 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

 

   If we are to discuss the merits of the allegations of racism against Trump in this forum, we could probably do better than to begin with an opinion article from 2017.  Do we have a forum for out of date events and mundane topics? 

You really crack me up sometimes.  Thanks for the chuckle.

[Steeleballz 7,550]

38 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

My opinion on this really tailors to the intellectual depth the conversation wants to go to. If we're sticking what always amounts to the superficial part, no, Trump is not racist. But, if anyone wants to bother going into depth about racism, it looks to me like racism is a lot like sexuality, and represents a spectrum, rather than some binary switch (on/off, or racist/not racist). I've seen far too much evidence in my own life, never mind my own research, that pretty much everyone (as in, humans of every race) are "racists", and it's a matter of position along a spectrum of biases that is a determinant of how much, of which sociological/sociocultural/personal animus (and possible genetic) factors influence those biases internally, and how they manifest themselves externally. The external basis is generally what people look at, superficially, because we can't really dig into every single person's psyche to find out where on that spectrum they are, and for all intents and purposes, they can (and do) change. But since we primarily judge by a person's actions (the superficial part, as in, exclusively some of the external basis), it's clear by this basis Trump isn't a racist.

 

  I used to post along those lines a lot. Very few people actually come out and announce that they are racist so there is a lot of projecting going on by others, and sometimes using very subjective criteria. In my experience, the most overt racists are often the most guarded against showing that side of themselves. At the same time,  some of the least racist people I know (in the work environment) have faced allegations precisely because they don't ever think about race. They say dumb things and then have their comments over analyzed by people who do.  

 

  I would agree with the spectrum part to an extent. Trump is certainly not among the most racist people in this world. Nor would I say is he among the least. Not innocent to any degree, but not as preoccupied with race as many make him out to be. I do think some of the allegations of racism made when he was a landlord are probably more attributable to socioeconomic issues as opposed to racial ones. 

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,394]

31 minutes ago, Steeleballz said:

 

  I used to post along those lines a lot. Very few people actually come out and announce that they are racist so there is a lot of projecting going on by others, and sometimes using very subjective criteria. In my experience, the most overt racists are often the most guarded against showing that side of themselves. At the same time,  some of the least racist people I know (in the work environment) have faced allegations precisely because they don't ever think about race. They say dumb things and then have their comments over analyzed by people who do.  

 

  I would agree with the spectrum part to an extent. Trump is certainly not among the most racist people in this world. Nor would I say is he among the least. Not innocent to any degree, but not as preoccupied with race as many make him out to be. I do think some of the allegations of racism made when he was a landlord are probably more attributable to socioeconomic issues as opposed to racial ones. 

Agree 100%

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

But is what @Burnt Reynolds is describing racism?  Or tribalism?  I see tribalism in all of us every day, myself included.  But I don’t feel like I am racist.  Have I made remarks that someone would perceive as racist, because my comment was directed towards a person of another race, when in fact I just said something smart-alecky without thinking?  Sure.  But that doesn’t make the root cause of my comment racism.

 

I think the term racist/ism is simple overused nowadays, and no longer has the same impact that it used to.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

As to my OP, if you take the time to read it, the blacks who were around Trump back in the day said he wasn’t racist, and I think that says more about him than anything anyone or the media try to peddle about the man today.  He’s got some serious character flaws, but racism isn’t one of them, IMO.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,394]

3 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

I keep hearing how Trump is a racist.  People I know actually believe it is true.  I just don't get it.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/us/politics/trump-blacks-african-americans-girlfriend-charlottesville.html

what is ircling?

[Steeleballz 7,550]

1 minute ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

what is ircling?

 

   Misleading title!  President Trump has ircled no one!!!

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

what is ircling?

I was honoring my favorite VJ poster of all time with that title!

[yuna628 9,758]

3 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

As to my OP, if you take the time to read it, the blacks who were around Trump back in the day said he wasn’t racist, and I think that says more about him than anything anyone or the media try to peddle about the man today.  He’s got some serious character flaws, but racism isn’t one of them, IMO.

I can not say unequivocally that Trump is a racist. He may, he may not. He may fit into a class of persons that is either unaware their behavior could be considered as such or is too ignorant to care. I could certainly say he has a tendency to be offensive, inappropriate, and unaware of anyone else but himself. As someone that knew a racist pretty well though... there are some racists that are ashamed of their behavior. They know it's wrong and do it anyway. They may have 'black friends' and pretend to be nice, and then behave a different way when they are not there. Did my grandfather's 'one black friend' that he thought absolved him of his blatant racism ever know he was racist? I don't know.

 

Its kind of like when a shooter does crazy things and the neighbors or family members ''had no idea they were such a good boy..." People saying he's not racist may not be accurate and people saying he is may not be accurate. It may be somewhere in between.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I can not say unequivocally that Trump is a racist. He may, he may not. He may fit into a class of persons that is either unaware their behavior could be considered as such or is too ignorant to care. I could certainly say he has a tendency to be offensive, inappropriate, and unaware of anyone else but himself. As someone that knew a racist pretty well though... there are some racists that are ashamed of their behavior. They know it's wrong and do it anyway. They may have 'black friends' and pretend to be nice, and then behave a different way when they are not there. Did my grandfather's 'one black friend' that he thought absolved him of his blatant racism ever know he was racist? I don't know.

 

Its kind of like when a shooter does crazy things and the neighbors or family members ''had no idea they were such a good boy..." People saying he's not racist may not be accurate and people saying he is may not be accurate. It may be somewhere in between.

A tendency?  Lordy, girl, that man is so full of himself that I am surprised Melania can fit in the car with him.  I’d certainly give him a chance if I ever met him in person, because everyone deserves that, but I doubt he and I could ever be friends.  My standards are much higher than he portrays publicly.  

[yuna628 9,758]

10 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

A tendency?  Lordy, girl, that man is so full of himself that I am surprised Melania can fit in the car with him.  I’d certainly give him a chance if I ever met him in person, because everyone deserves that, but I doubt he and I could ever be friends.  My standards are much higher than he portrays publicly.  

I was trying to be polite. 

[laylalex 7,300]

21 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

 I’d certainly give him a chance if I ever met him in person, because everyone deserves that, but I doubt he and I could ever be friends.  My standards are much higher than he portrays publicly.  

I totally read this as you giving him a "chance" even though normally your standards are much higher, and I thought: oh, I've been there before with men. 

 

I really should leave work early, my brain is not working I think.