Justice Department watchdog finds 2016 launch of FBI probe of Trump advisers was legitimate

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

14 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Point 1*: I didn't say they made mistakes. The IG said they made mistakes. I was repeating that. 

Point 2%: It does not logically follow that any number, even an astronomical number, of mistakes automatically means that there was more than the fact that an astronomical number of mistakes were made. We can make deductions, sure, but that doesn't mean that A+B always equals C. 

Point 3^: I would prefer to see the actual conclusions of those who know more than I do, and who have the evidence, before saying that A+B=C. 

Point 4@: Please don't put words in my mouth about whether or not I want a particular answer. I know what I believe, and what I believe at the moment is that we do not know. Please don't gaslight me about this, thank you. 

1) I already discussed the IG's report, and the headlines of the "conclusions" are already posted. My replies to you are about your posts, your arguments. You were making an argument. Therefore, your arguments are open to criticism. 

2) Mistake means accidental, or not malicious. Leaks are not accidental, even a few of them, in agencies where information is supposed to be safeguarded. Over a hundred leaks in the span of months is not a "mistake", it's very clearly malicious acts. We have leaks orchestrated by the very people responsible for "investigating" both Trump and Hillary, Strzok's texts describe a "leak strategy", we have proof of over a hundred leaks between these bureaus, right after, and the media. The same people who wanted Hillary to win "100 million to zero". The logic follows entirely, the only thing that's not following is your arguments, because they're based on the headline of a report's conclusion that itself doesn't follow its own evidence, let alone all the other now-publicly-available evidence.

3) This is called appeal to authority fallacy. Just because people appear to be the "experts" on something doesn't mean they're inherently correct, which is why we deduce the information before us, rather than just believe conclusions others give us, particularly something of this importance. And again, I've already argued with their points, you've made your own, so it's funny you're hiding behind other people when you, yourself, are making arguments.

4) lol.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

Looks like the tickle pile by the MDL was a bit premature LOL

 

 

IG Horowitz rips FBI ‘failure’ in Russia probe, says nobody vindicated by report

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/horowitz-testifies

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

Horowitz "rips".. 

Barr "blasts"..

☝️ Fox News.

 

 

 

Just like every time the fake news for the left played up the "bombshells", "walls were closing in", "beginning of the end", for every report or public statement, this is all meaningless posturing. 

 

It's obvious, just like last year's IG report, nothing is going to happen. Again, the IG is laying out a series of abusive actions, criminal motivations, by a swath of bureau people, to cover themselves (the IG) against liability (repercussions for not doing their job), but make a conclusion against holding anyone in the bureaus accountable (passing the "judgement" to Congress), to cover themselves from retaliatory action and personal harassment by the bureaus. Congress is going to make a big show about it, in tandem with the media, trying to rile up people on both sides while accomplishing absolutely nothing. 

 

Just a massive waste of time, money, and in the end, perpetuating the status quo of systemic abuse by people who the citizens have no check against. But these are people we should be fearful of, because those people that have been demonstrated to abuse power, hold power over all of us, anyways, and clearly no one that can hold them accountable is going to keep them in check, which always means this is going to get worse.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

Horowitz also in what I've seen of the report described spying as "surveillance", but the plethora of ways he likewise described the way they were employing it is precisely what people talk about when they say spying. When people think "surveillance", they're thinking just wiretaps or video/audio surveillance, but this included foreign counterintelligence travel, the employ of foreign assets, infiltration of groups, it's ridiculous how far this went all to try and undermine Trump because they didn't want him President. Comey sat there lying to Congress, lied to the media, and so on, minimizing the dossier. But this fabricated trash was "central", as anyone with a modicum of common sense understood, to the initialization of spying on the Trump campaign. This is not how government should be used against people, these rules the bureaus abused were intended for foreign agents, spying on Americans requires a different, more transparent process, and if the bureaus can't handle this sort of power, it shouldn't have it at all. These bureaus through their actions represent far more a threat to American democracy and civil society than the Russians or any other foreign government could hope to be.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

In more of what I've read, Carter Page was working for the US government, an FBI lawyer arbitrarily changed his status as a foreign agent to justify a counterintel operation against him (part of the wider operation against the Trump campaign). 

 

When Trump, as President, was supposed to get briefings, Comey et al lied to him, and tried to convince people to pull a 25th amendment against Trump.

 

And they all used fabricated nonsense from the Clinton camp, which included Steele, Fusion, Blumenthal, Ohrs, Page, and plenty of others, combined with circular reasoning (made up stuff to attain FISA, FISA used to justify spying, trying to get court convictions with some other laws apparently broken unrelated to the premise of the investigation) to attain that FISA to start this whole ridiculous process that's cascaded into more abuses to justify endless government attacks on Trump and the people around him.

 

This is the kind of stuff people hang for, and should. It's one thing to be a zealous cop protecting the country from what one perceives as a foreign threat, it's another to manufacture stuff for the sole purpose of deciding an election outcome, and then to attempt to supplant an elected President, for no reason other than personal animus. 

 

Even funnier right now is how Devin Nunes writes a memo talking about FISA abuses, the media absolutely trashes him, Horowitz just basically said the same thing Nunes said almost two years ago to the day (but using the incorrect idea that these corrupt bureau people are exonerated), the media praises Horowitz. Pelosi in an interview with Chris Matthews on that day said Nunes was lying, the Maddow clown show repeatedly said they had enough stuff on their own to spy on Trump's camp, repeating conspiracies about Trump and kompromat, the media is every bit as complicit as the bureau people are in gaslighting half the populace. The long term damage to the country is now done, and the only hope of ever countering this is holding people accountable. But even now people are still working to undermine Trump for the very reasons this dossier and other garbage was brought up, because they just don't want Trump as President, and have no other way of defeating him. The Ukraine thing follows the exact same comical approach. 

 

I'm seeing no will by oversight bodies (IG, Congress) to actually hold people accountable. The reason why is they will damage their own relationships, potentially, their own abuses. Which describes how deeply embedded corruption is within the American government, and why I logically believe that its not something that will solve itself. The American people basically have to solve it on their own. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

6 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

In more of what I've read, Carter Page was working for the US government, an FBI lawyer arbitrarily changed his status as a foreign agent to justify a counterintel operation against him (part of the wider operation against the Trump campaign). 

 

When Trump, as President, was supposed to get briefings, Comey et al lied to him, and tried to convince people to pull a 25th amendment against Trump.

 

And they all used fabricated nonsense from the Clinton camp, which included Steele, Fusion, Blumenthal, Ohrs, Page, and plenty of others, combined with circular reasoning (made up stuff to attain FISA, FISA used to justify spying, trying to get court convictions with some other laws apparently broken unrelated to the premise of the investigation) to attain that FISA to start this whole ridiculous process that's cascaded into more abuses to justify endless government attacks on Trump and the people around him.

 

This is the kind of stuff people hang for, and should. It's one thing to be a zealous cop protecting the country from what one perceives as a foreign threat, it's another to manufacture stuff for the sole purpose of deciding an election outcome, and then to attempt to supplant an elected President, for no reason other than personal animus. 

 

Even funnier right now is how Devin Nunes writes a memo talking about FISA abuses, the media absolutely trashes him, Horowitz just basically said the same thing Nunes said almost two years ago to the day (but using the incorrect idea that these corrupt bureau people are exonerated), the media praises Horowitz. Pelosi in an interview with Chris Matthews on that day said Nunes was lying, the Maddow clown show repeatedly said they had enough stuff on their own to spy on Trump's camp, repeating conspiracies about Trump and kompromat, the media is every bit as complicit as the bureau people are in gaslighting half the populace. The long term damage to the country is now done, and the only hope of ever countering this is holding people accountable. But even now people are still working to undermine Trump for the very reasons this dossier and other garbage was brought up, because they just don't want Trump as President, and have no other way of defeating him. The Ukraine thing follows the exact same comical approach. 

 

I'm seeing no will by oversight bodies (IG, Congress) to actually hold people accountable. The reason why is they will damage their own relationships, potentially, their own abuses. Which describes how deeply embedded corruption is within the American government, and why I logically believe that its not something that will solve itself. The American people basically have to solve it on their own. 

Remember when Trump said his campaign was spied on and the MDL went nuts and laughed. 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

6 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Remember when Trump said his campaign was spied on and the MDL went nuts and laughed. 

The gaslighted left should relish in their new found deep state/neocon friendship. Once it actually sinks in, of course.

 

Politics makes strange bedfellows. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[90DayFinancier 910]

6 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

1) I already discussed the IG's report, and the headlines of the "conclusions" are already posted. My replies to you are about your posts, your arguments. You were making an argument. Therefore, your arguments are open to criticism. 

You seem to lack the time to actually read the text of the IG's testimony, so let's give you headlines free of the alt-right fog machine:

 

AG Barr condemns IG report's finding that FBI probe of Trump campaign was justified The attorney general said the investigation was launched on the "thinnest of suspicions." nbcnews.com 

 

 

Contradicting Trump, DOJ report finds Russia probe was justified msnbc.com 

 

Justice Department watchdog releases report on origins of Russia investigation cbsnews.com 

 

FBI wiretap of Trump campaign aide was riddled with errors, but Russia probe was legally justified, IG report finds usatoday.com 

 

AG Barr Made Last-Minute, ‘Highly Unusual’ Decision to Alter OIG Russia Report lawandcrime.com 

 

 

 

DOJ watchdog finds Russia investigation not improper, despite missteps abcnews.go.com 

 

 

Read: DOJ IG Finds There Was Sufficient Evidence To Launch Russia Probe talkingpointsmemo.com 

 

Justice Dept. watchdog finds no evidence of bias in Russia inquiry upi.com 

 

DOJ Watchdog Report Finds No Bias in Russia Probe courthousenews.com 

 

Report on FBI probe into Trump campaign's ties to Russia finds mistakes, no sign of political bias - CBC News cbc.ca  

 

 

 

Steele had 'personal' relationship with Ivanka Trump, DoJ report reveals theguardian.com 

 

 

Trump’s comments about the IG report turn reality on its head vox.com 

 

 

'No political bias' in FBI probe of Trump campaign bbc.com 

 

Here are the Russia probe conspiracy theories debunked by the DOJ inspector general report politico.com

 

IG Report: Here Are The 17 Specific ‘Inaccuracies And Omissions’ In The FBI’s FISA Warrants Against Carter Page dailywire.com 

 

DOJ watchdog report takeaways: Nuance, no total absolution apnews.com 

 

Calls for ‘Compulsive Liar’ AG Barr to Resign Swell After Misleading Statement About DOJ’s FBI Report lawandcrime.com

 

Bill Barr Is About To Strike Again; Just As the Attorney General Lied About the Mueller Report, He’s Now About to Undercut a Report on the Origins of the Trump-Kremlin Investigation dcreport.org 

 

 

FBI Agents Showed Pro-Trump, Anti-Clinton Bias: IG Report On Russian Investigation Shows ibtimes.com 

 

Bill Barr Exposed as DOJ Report Dismisses Trump’s Conspiracies and Clears Trump’s Enemies thedailybeast.com 

 

 

Trump scolds his FBI director after release of DOJ's Russia probe report - Wray broke with the president and Attorney General William Barr by embracing the findings of the review of the Russia probe origins. politico.com 

 

Trump lashes out at FBI Director Wray for telling truth about IG report vox.com 

 

Here are the Russia probe conspiracy theories debunked by the DOJ inspector general report politico.com 

 

Trump assails FBI Director Wray after report finds no political bias reuters.com 

 

The ‘Russia Hoax’ Is a Hoax: A report by the FBI inspector general debunks the claims that the investigation into political interference by the Kremlin was a left-wing conspiracy to depose the president. theatlantic.com 

 

 

 

 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

Oh good, we're back to cut and pasting headlines, from media that pushed Russia conspiracies, the dossier, that all turned out wrong, and a plethora of other fabricated things (Manafort visited Assange), etc. It's promising seeing how some people won't ever learn.

 

Moving on from the low energy/intelligence stuff:

 

Watching Comey go to the friendly fake news earlier in the week and say the report vindicates him is hilarious. Horowitz directly refuted this. Comey signed off on several FISA applications, some directly following Comey himself calling the dossier salacious, yet doing it anyways. There's a handful of people that should be charged with defrauding/conspiracy to defraud the FISA court. Kevin Clinesmith doctored (tampered with) evidence to the court, and should be charged. Comey went on the media and lied repeatedly saying the dossier had little effect, when we know the dossier is what got the FISA warrant, it was "central" and "essential". Adam Schiff also hilariously repeated this, and defended Fusion GPS, Steele, and the dossier, saying that the Trump campaign was "compromised by the Russians". The only person almost as bad as Comey with lying is Schiff. 

 

The only thing somewhat promising is seeing people like Paul, Nunes, Jordan, Lee, etc. start saying names and directly referencing charges/prison. Hoping against the odds vital people go to jail. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[90DayFinancier 910]

1 hour ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

Oh good, we're back to cut and pasting headlines, from media that pushed Russia conspiracies, the dossier, that all turned out wrong, and a plethora of other fabricated things (Manafort visited Assange), etc. It's promising seeing how some people won't ever learn.

As you pointed out, you posted the headlines as your argument, I just offered rebuttal on your terms. 

 

You expect me to believe your incoherent wall of words and ignore the reports from Rueters, CBC, the Atlantic. When presented with these statements, your rebuttal is a string of tinfoil hat non-sequiturs.

 

 

 

Quote

 

Moving on from the low energy/intelligence stuff:

 

Watching Comey go to the friendly fake news earlier in the week and say the report vindicates him is hilarious. Horowitz directly refuted this. Comey signed off on several FISA applications, some directly following Comey himself calling the dossier salacious, yet doing it anyways. There's a handful of people that should be charged with defrauding/conspiracy to defraud the FISA court. Kevin Clinesmith doctored (tampered with) evidence to the court, and should be charged. Comey went on the media and lied repeatedly saying the dossier had little effect, when we know the dossier is what got the FISA warrant, it was "central" and "essential". Adam Schiff also hilariously repeated this, and defended Fusion GPS, Steele, and the dossier, saying that the Trump campaign was "compromised by the Russians". The only person almost as bad as Comey with lying is Schiff. 

The report revealed that it was reports from intelligence from Australia and not information from the FISA warrant or the Steele dossier that started the investigation. That was in the report and the IG's testimony. 

 

The Steele dossier has to be understood for the intelligence product it is and not a final piece of analysis. The book "Crime in Progress" presents a fascinating view of how the product came about, came to light and its final impact.

 

The FISA process has been broken for some time, it is only when a Republican appears implicated that religion is gained. It really is a red herring though because the Carter Page has been on the radar of counter intelligence since 2009 as potentially compromised and in the end he was not complicit, just an idiot.

 

 

 

Quote

 

The only thing somewhat promising is seeing people like Paul, Nunes, Jordan, Lee, etc. start saying names and directly referencing charges/prison. Hoping against the odds vital people go to jail. 

Nunes is likely heading for his own ethics hearing that will peel back what is left of his corroded veneer of respectability.

 

Private flights to watch the Celtics, investments in wineries who host cocaine and hooker booze cruises.

 

Uber-boi Nunes  has zero credibility and the sooner Republicans recognize their liability and cut their loses, the better off they and the country will be.

 

[laylalex 7,284]

I hadn't heard about the cocaine, hookers and booze cruises. Sounds like three things my ex Voldy enjoys (though apparently they are not hookers but escorts who have been "properly vetted" and "at the very least went to a Seven Sisters school"). I should ask him if he has chilled with Nunes.

[90DayFinancier 910]

1 minute ago, laylalex said:

I hadn't heard about the cocaine, hookers and booze cruises. Sounds like three things my ex Voldy enjoys (though apparently they are not hookers but escorts who have been "properly vetted" and "at the very least went to a Seven Sisters school"). I should ask him if he has chilled with Nunes.

In all fairness, Nunes was not present with the hookers, it just where his farm sale money was invested. 

 

More  scuzzy is where his donor money comes from and how he spends his campaign funds. 

 

And now.. he is having 10/15 calls with Guliani s Russian goons, but cannot remember the call.

 

 

[laylalex 7,284]

10 minutes ago, 90DayFinancier said:

In all fairness, Nunes was not present with the hookers, it just where his farm sale money was invested. 

 

More  scuzzy is where his donor money comes from and how he spends his campaign funds. 

 

And now.. he is having 10/15 calls with Guliani s Russian goons, but cannot remember the call.

 

 

I vaguely remember something about ties to Portugal that were kind of shady, but I never heard any follow up reporting. Probably just rumors. 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 hour ago, 90DayFinancier said:

As you pointed out, you posted the headlines as your argument, I just offered rebuttal on your terms. 

 

You expect me to believe your incoherent wall of words and ignore the reports from Rueters, CBC, the Atlantic. When presented with these statements, your rebuttal is a string of tinfoil hat non-sequiturs.

 

 

 

The report revealed that it was reports from intelligence from Australia and not information from the FISA warrant or the Steele dossier that started the investigation. That was in the report and the IG's testimony. 

 

The Steele dossier has to be understood for the intelligence product it is and not a final piece of analysis. The book "Crime in Progress" presents a fascinating view of how the product came about, came to light and its final impact.

 

The FISA process has been broken for some time, it is only when a Republican appears implicated that religion is gained. It really is a red herring though because the Carter Page has been on the radar of counter intelligence since 2009 as potentially compromised and in the end he was not complicit, just an idiot.

 

 

 

Nunes is likely heading for his own ethics hearing that will peel back what is left of his corroded veneer of respectability.

 

Private flights to watch the Celtics, investments in wineries who host cocaine and hooker booze cruises.

 

Uber-boi Nunes  has zero credibility and the sooner Republicans recognize their liability and cut their loses, the better off they and the country will be.

 

 

The "start" of anyone ever looking at Page is not the issue, genius, it's the FISA warrant and the fact that people spied on the Trump campaign during election 2016, and even after.  And in this video in Horowitz's "wall of words" opening testimony, he blatantly says it was the dossier: 

 

1:14:50-1:15:13: "We concluded that the Steele Reporting played a central and essential role in the decision to seek a FISA order. FBI leadership supported relying on Steele's reporting to seek a FISA order after being advised of concerns expressed by a department attorney that Steele may have been hired by someone associated with a rival candidate or campaign."

 

1:17:33-1:18:04 "The Crossfire Hurricane team obtained information from Steele's primary subsource in January 2017, that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the primary subsource's reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on  2016 US Presidential election activities."

 

 

And on top of being wrong, you then point to a book you likely never read, from Fusion GPS. 😂

 

Another faceplant.

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[90DayFinancier 910]

55 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

 

The "start" of anyone ever looking at Page is not the issue, genius,

 

Quote

 

 

it's the FISA warrant and the fact that people spied on the Trump campaign during election 2016, and even after.  And in this video in Horowitz's "wall of words" opening testimony, he blatantly says it was the dossier: 

 

1:14:50-1:15:13: "We concluded that the Steele Reporting played a central and essential role in the decision to seek a FISA order. FBI leadership supported relying on Steele's reporting to seek a FISA order after being advised of concerns expressed by a department attorney that Steele may have been hired by someone associated with a rival candidate or campaign."

Crossfire Hurricane, was opened after receipt of information from a “Friendly Foreign Government” ( because Papadopoulos was blabbing "“the Trump team had received some kind of suggestion from Russia that it could assist this process with the anonymous release of information during the campaign that would be damaging to Mrs. Clinton (and President Obama).”)

 

Why they sought a warrant on Page is another question. Sloppy work on the warrant, just a side show to the main event: Russian operatives tried to influence the election and achieved significant success.

 

The dossier: Manafort, Flynn, Roger Stone all mentioned in the Dossier , all found guilty.

Even the "pee-pee" portion and Cohen meeting agents in Prague has not been disproven.  Trump lied about not staying at the Ritz and Cohens

 

Based on the type of product it is, there is always the chance that some misinformation was planted from Russia. Steele himself deems the dossier "70% accurate" but enough to get the attention of the FBI who had a long standing relationship with Steele. 

 

 

Quote

 

1:17:33-1:18:04 "The Crossfire Hurricane team obtained information from Steele's primary subsource in January 2017, that raised significant questions about the reliability of the Steele reporting. This was particularly noteworthy because the FISA applications relied entirely on information from the primary subsource's reporting to support the allegation that Page was coordinating with the Russian government on  2016 US Presidential election activities."

See above, Papadopoulos was charged, Manafort was charged, the FISA on Page is a footnote. Was he charged? no.

But go ahead and drink that conspiracy Kool aid.

Quote

 

 

And on top of being wrong, you then point to a book you likely never read, from Fusion GPS. 😂

 

Another faceplant.

 

You talk a lotta trash for sure. Not much of substance.

 

 

I just finished the book and I bought it because it was it was from Simpson and Fritsch which makes it as close to the source unless Steele writes his story. I know you get some sort of kick belittling others, but they have the skills to read critically.

 

The main reason for reading it? If Nunes , Gohmert and gang are so wound tight about the dossier to lie and misrepresent it, there must be something of value there. It was a good read. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by 90DayFinancier