Denied at Interview

[TennilleO 117]

32 minutes ago, Greenbaum said:

Call USCIS and ask for a Tier 2 agent. Tell them you would like a copy faxed to you on the RFE because you are on a deadline that can’t be extended. A tier 2 is the only one that has access to those systems. They can also read it to you (most will do this but some don't) and let you know what they are requesting. Be kind and not demanding and you may get somewhere. Just saying.

Thank you but we haven't made it to that level. I was trying to see how to handle a RFE because it was previously stated I would get one based on the situation. 

[Villanelle 4,122]

Try using the search feature to find others in similar situations and reach out to them if you feel you need to. 

 

While I understand what everyone is posting about it possibly being an issue needing to show a divorce for the marriage claimed- I dont think its a big an issue as its being presented. As I said the K and CR have completely different requirements. For the K you need to show you are single which is almost impossible to prove when there is official documentation (DS) showing a marriage. Some people are able to prove single by using a single certificate but they are not available everywhere and are not always considered enough proof of being single to trump the DS claim. You are not K anymore so.....

 

For the CR you have to show you are married (and that any previous marriages have been terminated). So yes, it can be an issue where they want to see the previous marriage they have documented terminated. You will never be able to provide such a termination document since there was never a marriage. So you would explain the previous marriage was a false claim. (this can cause a waiver to be needed). They need to accept that you lied in order to not want termination documents. Once they accept it was a lie they will no longer want termination documents. Does that make sense? In a way the issue of termination documents goes away when they determine it was incorrectly claimed marriage. Thats why no one posts anything further on it- because its no longer an issue.

 

You will provide a marriage certificate as proof of there not being a previous/current marriage; as you needed to be single and able to be married in order to get a marriage certificate issued for you guys. A gov issuing you guys a marriage certificate (which is assumed to be done properly) means a gov was satisfied neither of you were married and all previous marriages were terminated. It supports the claim of marriage on the DS was a lie. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TennilleO 117]

11 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

Try using the search feature to find others in similar situations and reach out to them if you feel you need to. 

 

While I understand what everyone is posting about it possibly being an issue needing to show a divorce for the marriage claimed- I dont think its a big an issue as its being presented. As I said the K and CR have completely different requirements. For the K you need to show you are single which is almost impossible to prove when there is official documentation (DS) showing a marriage. Some people are able to prove single by using a single certificate but they are not available everywhere and are not always considered enough proof of being single to trump the DS claim. You are not K anymore so.....

 

For the CR you have to show you are married (and that any previous marriages have been terminated). So yes, it can be an issue where they want to see the previous marriage they have documented terminated. You will never be able to provide such a termination document since there was never a marriage. So you would explain the previous marriage was a false claim. (this can cause a waiver to be needed). They need to accept that you lied in order to not want termination documents. Once they accept it was a lie they will no longer want termination documents. Does that make sense? In a way the issue of termination documents goes away when they determine it was incorrectly claimed marriage. Thats why no one posts anything further on it- because its no longer an issue.

 

You will provide a marriage certificate as proof of there not being a previous/current marriage; as you needed to be single and able to be married in order to get a marriage certificate issued for you guys. A gov issuing you guys a marriage certificate (which is assumed to be done properly) means a gov was satisfied neither of you were married and all previous marriages were terminated. It supports the claim of marriage on the DS was a lie. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That makes perfect sense.  So its a see what happens type of thing. I tried looking up people who may have a similar situation and I haven't find much. 

[Boiler 45,947]

Those filing as married have been issued RFE's for prior Divorce Certificates.

 

I am not sure how the Consulate could make a determination they had been lied to. Or why they would be interested in investigating.

 

As far as Marriage Licenses are concerned the ones I am familiar with have no check process regarding a prior marriage.

 

[geowrian 22,338]

24 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

They need to accept that you lied in order to not want termination documents. Once they accept it was a lie they will no longer want termination documents. Does that make sense? In a way the issue of termination documents goes away when they determine it was incorrectly claimed marriage. Thats why no one posts anything further on it- because its no longer an issue.

I'd have to disagree. You would think if it was that simple then there would be somebody posting about it. I have yet to see that it was resolved in that way.

I'm not saying it's incorrect either. AFAIK, we don't have references for how it was resolved for others, or if it was ever resolved. Edit: We do know cases of a divorce certificate being requested by RFE, though.

 

Quote

You will provide a marriage certificate as proof of there not being a previous/current marriage; as you needed to be single and able to be married in order to get a marriage certificate issued for you guys. A gov issuing you guys a marriage certificate (which is assumed to be done properly) means a gov was satisfied neither of you were married and all previous marriages were terminated. It supports the claim of marriage on the DS was a lie.

I would have to disagree again. Obtaining a new marriage certificate is not evidence of not being married previously.

Heck, I could drive to the the next county in my state today and get a marriage license by stating I was never married. My existing wife would likely throw me out of the house...but obtaining the marriage license and then certificate would likely be the simplest part of the marriage process. Obviously the marriage itself would not be legal.

 

Edit: To clarify with regard to the bolded statement...

You don't need to be single to get a marriage certificate. You need to claim to be single. Some countries may also request an additional document that they have no existing record of a marriage within their files, although that is not comprehensive.

Edited December 13, 2019 by geowrian

[TennilleO 117]

5 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I'd have to disagree. You would think if it was that simple then there would be somebody posting about it. I have yet to see that it was resolved in that way.

I'm not saying it's incorrect either. AFAIK, we don't have references for how it was resolved for others, or if it was ever resolved. Edit: We do know cases of a divorce certificate being requested by RFE, though.

 

I would have to disagree again. Obtaining a new marriage certificate is not evidence of not being married previously.

Heck, I could drive to the the next county in my state today and get a marriage license by stating I was never married. My existing wife would likely throw me out of the house...but obtaining the marriage license and then certificate would likely be the simplest part of the marriage process. Obviously the marriage itself would not be legal.

What if he hasnt traveled outside of his area.

[geowrian 22,338]

3 minutes ago, TennilleO said:

What if he hasnt traveled outside of his area.

Interesting situation, if it can be substantiated. Another question for the attorney, or item to raise if they issue an RFE.

[Boiler 45,947]

How do you prove a negative? I have no idea how I could prove I had not been somewhere ever, probably could prove I have been in certain places at certain times.

[Villanelle 4,122]

 

55 minutes ago, geowrian said:

I'd have to disagree. You would think if it was that simple then there would be somebody posting about it. I have yet to see that it was resolved in that way.

I'm not saying it's incorrect either. AFAIK, we don't have references for how it was resolved for others, or if it was ever resolved. Edit: We do know cases of a divorce certificate being requested by RFE, though.

 

I would have to disagree again. Obtaining a new marriage certificate is not evidence of not being married previously.

Heck, I could drive to the the next county in my state today and get a marriage license by stating I was never married. My existing wife would likely throw me out of the house...but obtaining the marriage license and then certificate would likely be the simplest part of the marriage process. Obviously the marriage itself would not be legal.

 

Edit: To clarify with regard to the bolded statement...

You don't need to be single to get a marriage certificate. You need to claim to be single. Some countries may also request an additional document that they have no existing record of a marriage within their files, although that is not comprehensive.

Well Im not saying it is easy... 

 

And no of course a marriage certificate doesnt prove in itself the person was in fact single when it was issued but theres an assumption that documents you provide like a marriage certificate are valid and were issued appropriately. Thats why I said the first step is getting them to accept and agree that the marriage claimed on the DS was a lie- so they stop looking for proof of it being terminated. If they are in agreement that it was a lie they wont require it to be proven terminated. A current marriage certificate (if issued appropriately) would support the concept that the person was single. So it just supports it, it doesnt prove it. So they not only need to believe and accept you lied on the DS but that the marriage certificate you are submitting was issued appropriately. Generally they assume it to be issued appropriately.

 

For people trying to do the K simply saying you lied is not enough for them to accept it was a lie. Sometimes they can provide a single certificate and its enough but other times its not. A CR person can show a marriage certificate which seems to be enough combined with them admitting it was a lie. 

 

 

 

[SalishSea 18,082]

1 hour ago, geowrian said:

I'd have to disagree. You would think if it was that simple then there would be somebody posting about it. I have yet to see that it was resolved in that way.

I'm not saying it's incorrect either. AFAIK, we don't have references for how it was resolved for others, or if it was ever resolved. Edit: We do know cases of a divorce certificate being requested by RFE, though.

 

I would have to disagree again. Obtaining a new marriage certificate is not evidence of not being married previously.

Heck, I could drive to the the next county in my state today and get a marriage license by stating I was never married. My existing wife would likely throw me out of the house...but obtaining the marriage license and then certificate would likely be the simplest part of the marriage process. Obviously the marriage itself would not be legal.

 

Edit: To clarify with regard to the bolded statement...

You don't need to be single to get a marriage certificate. You need to claim to be single. Some countries may also request an additional document that they have no existing record of a marriage within their files, although that is not comprehensive.

Exactly.  The whole CENOMAR and registering of overseas marriages in the Philippines is pretty interesting.   Would never work in the US.  There is probably way more bigamy than we realize.

[Boiler 45,947]

The consulate has a sworn statement that he is married.

[geowrian 22,338]

Clearly there was a misrep. But how does USCIS or the CO know if it was on the first application or the second? If one assumes that it was on the second application, a repeat of the lie to get a marriage certificate seems likely/reasonable. That's why I don't personally put much faith in that either USCIS or a CO would treat the marriage certificate as evidence that the first application was actually the lie.

As such, it would again come back to having evidence of each statement being a lie, and meeting the burden imposed by the petition to show a legal and bonafide marriage would be quite difficult.

Edited December 13, 2019 by geowrian

[TennilleO 117]

So the problem still remains of how to prove that there isn't a marriage from the first DS application.  I am being advised to get married and do the waiver but I will still face the same issue that was presented during the K1. I have searched and still can't figure out how to show that the information was a misrep.  If they are going to give us a RFE at the very beginning to prove a factious marriage has been dissolved and we cant provided a divorce decree so what options do we really have? 

[Boiler 45,947]

That is why you ned a Lawyer who has done this and knows how.

 

As an aside how did you find out the prior marriage was not real?

[TennilleO 117]

24 minutes ago, Boiler said:

That is why you ned a Lawyer who has done this and knows how.

 

As an aside how did you find out the prior marriage was not real?

I had him investigated by two different sources once I realized the relationship was getting serious at two different periods of the relationship. I understood that even though we have a mutual friend which I trust and could verify what was factual that I still needed to protect myself because of the negative conversations that you hear about the country and fraud relationships/marriages.  During having both people check they verified that he wasn't married. I did know he applied and when he did for a vistors visa but didn't know the application said married. 

So what I am going off of is my investigators and not just he word that he isn't. 

I may not be fully knowledgeable about all this but I try not to be down right stupid either.