Studies say death penalty deters crime

[Scott & Lai 12]

Doing something about poverty will probably deter much more crime than a death penatly ever would.

I'm really mixed about the death penalty. Sometimes I feel that its justified, sometimes not. Sometimes I feel that its just a scapegoat to avoid facing the real problems.

The real problems are murderers. Poverty doesn't cause murder, evil in men's hearts does that.

[Dan J 277]

Doing something about poverty will probably deter much more crime than a death penatly ever would.

I'm really mixed about the death penalty. Sometimes I feel that its justified, sometimes not. Sometimes I feel that its just a scapegoat to avoid facing the real problems.

The real problems are murderers. Poverty doesn't cause murder, evil in men's hearts does that.

Poverty itself doesnt cause murders. Only contributes to murder in some cases. It can lead to a situation where someone gets killed.

Other times murder happens in the heat of the moment or an argument not much you can do to deter that kind of murder. Rage can do alot to stop people from thinking clearly.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Ah, Texas. Texas is very actively putting down anyone it can get it's hands on, yes? A

From 1976 to 2005 there were 55,922 murders in Texas and 385 executions. That is comes out to a rate of 0.69%. I don't think .69% qualifies as anyone it can get it's hands on.

Which state is more actively executing than Texas?

[Heracles 417]

Doing something about poverty will probably deter much more crime than a death penatly ever would.

I'm really mixed about the death penalty. Sometimes I feel that its justified, sometimes not. Sometimes I feel that its just a scapegoat to avoid facing the real problems.

The real problems are murderers. Poverty doesn't cause murder, evil in men's hearts does that.

Interesting how some blame poverty but have no problem with stuff like hip hop endorsing and singing about killing people. Basically glamorizing it in certain communities.

Edited June 11, 2007 by Infidel

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Poverty is certainly a key factor in creating the sort of desperation that leads people to commit crimes. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that there's a pretty substantial correlation between high levels of violent crime and low-income neighbourhoods - Newark NJ, & South Central LA anyone? Crime is also tied to low levels of general education and high rates of high school truancy. Guess where that happens on a fairly regular basis? It ain't Beverly Hills...

Doing something about poverty will probably deter much more crime than a death penatly ever would.

I'm really mixed about the death penalty. Sometimes I feel that its justified, sometimes not. Sometimes I feel that its just a scapegoat to avoid facing the real problems.

The real problems are murderers. Poverty doesn't cause murder, evil in men's hearts does that.

Interesting how some blame poverty but have no problem with stuff like hip hop endorsing and singing about killing people. Basically glamorizing it in certain communities.

Interesting how noone here has actually endorsed "hip hop culture", so not sure where you're pulling that particular opinion from...

Edited June 11, 2007 by erekose

[Heracles 417]

Poverty is certainly a key factor in creating the sort of desperation that leads people to commit crimes. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that there's a pretty substantial correlation between high levels of violent crime and low-income neighbourhoods - Newark NJ, & South Central LA anyone? Crime is also tied to low levels of general education and high rates of high school truancy. Guess where that happens on a fairly regular basis? It ain't Beverly Hills...

Poverty obviously is a factor for crime but does not correlate to it being acceptable to cap someone. The US went through a depression years ago. I did not see people capping each other left right and center. Especially when considering they did not have luxuries such as EBT, Federal student loans or free education. Whereas someone living in the Ghetto has no excuse. School is free here. School is not even free in Australia which is quite a socialist nation. I do not buy the poverty is to blame for someone being able to take a gun and shoot someone excuse.

Plus, how many murders are actually committed because someone is hungry. The murders usually stem from gang related violence or people who have the notion of choice, aka me me me, embedded deep into their head that they have no respect for someone else's life. For example someone microwaving their baby or shooting a teller because they where not served in time. Are these murders related to poverty?

Edited June 11, 2007 by Infidel

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Poverty is certainly a key factor in creating the sort of desperation that leads people to commit crimes. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that there's a pretty substantial correlation between high levels of violent crime and low-income neighbourhoods - Newark NJ, & South Central LA anyone? Crime is also tied to low levels of general education and high rates of high school truancy. Guess where that happens on a fairly regular basis? It ain't Beverly Hills...

Poverty obviously is a factor for crime but does not correlate to it being acceptable to cap someone.

Never said it was. Merely pointing out that socioeconomic has a direct relationship to the crime rate. Its not about just about how financially badly off you are, we're talking about education, family history, all things which contribute to keeping a person in poverty and impacting their general outlook on life. Pointing that out doesn't imply "excuse".

The US went through a depression years ago. I did not see people capping each other left right and center. Especially when considering they did not have luxuries such as EBT, Federal student loans or free education. Whereas someone living in the Ghetto has no excuse.

Again - why do you keep thinking that poverty amounts to an excuse? Reason isn't justification... And public benefits hardly amount to a life of luxury...

The murders usually stem from gang related violence or people who have the notion of choice, aka me me me, embedded deep into their head that they have no respect for someone else's life. For example someone microwaving their baby or shooting a teller because they where not served in time. Are these murders related to poverty?

OK you're on the right track with gangs. But where exactly do these gangs thrive...? Not in the affluent suburbs...

[Robor007 0]

Not all liberals are anti capitol punishment. I would definitely be described as a liberal and I'm for the death penalty when the crime merits it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Going back to topic - I wonder if anyone has any more "compelling evidence" of the deterrent effect of the DP?

[dalegg 143]

Ah, Texas. Texas is very actively putting down anyone it can get it's hands on, yes? A

From 1976 to 2005 there were 55,922 murders in Texas and 385 executions. That is comes out to a rate of 0.69%. I don't think .69% qualifies as anyone it can get it's hands on.

Which state is more actively executing than Texas?

None, but the odds are still overwhelming that you are not going to be executed for murder in Texas, so there is no way you could use the execution rate there as proof that it either is or isn't a deterent. If Texas is .69% and some other state is .25%, there is still more than a 99% chance that you will not be executed in either state for murder. The difference is inconsequential.

At any rate, that wasn't the point of my remark anyway. I was just showing that Texas was in no way shape or form executing "anyone it can get it's hands on". Not by a long shot.

Edited June 11, 2007 by dalegg

[dalegg 143]

Going back to topic - I wonder if anyone has any more "compelling evidence" of the deterrent effect of the DP?

I suppose I am still not allowed to bring in statistics from Singapore, right?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well it really depends - its hard to say overall what effect the DP has on murder rates and other crime; because so much is bound up in sociological and other factors.

Its not too dissimilar to the arguments about firearms reducing the crime-rate. Actually there is more evidence to that effect than there is to support the idea of the DP as a deterrent.

But still when you start looking at other countries you have to consider places like Japan, for example, which has fairly stringent anti-gun laws but which also has the lowest levels of violent crime.

That would tend to suggest that there are other factors at work than whether or not a murderer can be executed for his crime, or whether Joe Public has the right to own and carry a gun.

So I'm not sure you can really compare countries to support a broad conclusion about the effectiveness or lack thereof of capital punishment legislation; or firearm ownership for that matter.

Edited June 11, 2007 by erekose

[dalegg 143]

Well, we could just compare modern U.S with past U.S. Source

[Jenn! 918]

Well, we could just compare modern U.S with past U.S. Source

This graph would have to be normalized to remove the effects of any other possible contributing factors to changes in the murder rate to be of any value.

[homesick_american 1]

Ah, Texas. Texas is very actively putting down anyone it can get it's hands on, yes? A

From 1976 to 2005 there were 55,922 murders in Texas and 385 executions. That is comes out to a rate of 0.69%. I don't think .69% qualifies as anyone it can get it's hands on.

...which is another reason why it's not a deterrent.

Ah, Texas. Texas is very actively putting down anyone it can get it's hands on, yes? A

From 1976 to 2005 there were 55,922 murders in Texas and 385 executions. That is comes out to a rate of 0.69%. I don't think .69% qualifies as anyone it can get it's hands on.

Which state is more actively executing than Texas?

Texas has more executions than any other state though I can't remember if our death row is the biggest.