Jessica Collins, #Epstein victim risks her life to expose DC politicians

[laylalex 7,300]

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

The 11th hour allegations against Kavanaugh didn’t pass the smell test either, yet we were told it must be believed.

Actually, many people believed they did. Many people found her credible. 

6 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Why should women be believed anymore than any other gender. Thats bs 

I didn't say that.  I think that with people of all genders who come forward with allegations of sexual assault, we should start from a place of belief. 

[Dashinka 24,747]

16 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Actually, many people believed they did. Many people found her credible. 

I didn't say that.  I think that with people of all genders who come forward with allegations of sexual assault, we should start from a place of belief. 

Hmm, I wonder if that had anything to do with the Democrat and media machine propping up her allegation.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

2 hours ago, laylalex said:

Actually, many people believed they did. Many people found her credible. 

I didn't say that.  I think that with people of all genders who come forward with allegations of sexual assault, we should start from a place of belief. 

Why. Is someone not innocent until proven guilty. I mean other than our president 

[laylalex 7,300]

12 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Why. Is someone not innocent until proven guilty. I mean other than our president 

You can believe someone and also know that the other party is innocent until proven guilty. As far as I know, public opinion isn't a court of law.  (That's what my dad always says to me.)

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

1 hour ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Why. Is someone not innocent until proven guilty. I mean other than our president 

There was no standard whatsoever that would be met. There was no evidence whatsoever, only an accusation. The people Ford called witnesses refuted her. The people that Kavanaugh called to testify for his character, that knew him their whole lives, did fantastic jobs. In the end, it was a character attack, nothing to do with crimes, and they failed, as it should be regardless of who actually does it. The wisdom of "innocent until proven guilty" isn't merely something that magically sprang up with the Constitution as for the government only. These were social principles of respect that you shouldn't ruin the life of someone merely upon accusation, and the obvious pitfalls of evidence-free accusations, as illustrated here. Thus, it's always telling of the principles of certain people when they try and sidestep the fact that there was not a shred of evidence, and given the timing of it, along with Ford's political history, a slew of people magically "coming forward" (simultaneously, without any evidence as well, also magically considered "credible"), and the people she surrounded herself with, was quite apparent that this was a mere character assassination attempt. A pathetic one too. But, history will remember the fact that illogical smear attempts didn't prevail. I'm not a fan of Kavanaugh, given who he worked for (which is precisely why people like Flake voted for him), but no one deserves this, and even though he won, his private life is basically ruined. But because of his position, he can't do what anyone harmed in this way would do, sue those people into the graveyard.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,378]

16 minutes ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

There was no standard whatsoever that would be met. There was no evidence whatsoever, only an accusation. The people Ford called witnesses refuted her. The people that Kavanaugh called to testify for his character, that knew him their whole lives, did fantastic jobs. In the end, it was a character attack, nothing to do with crimes, and they failed, as it should be regardless of who actually does it. The wisdom of "innocent until proven guilty" isn't merely something that magically sprang up with the Constitution as for the government only. These were social principles of respect that you shouldn't ruin the life of someone merely upon accusation, and the obvious pitfalls of evidence-free accusations, as illustrated here. Thus, it's always telling of the principles of certain people when they try and sidestep the fact that there was not a shred of evidence, and given the timing of it, along with Ford's political history, a slew of people magically "coming forward" (simultaneously, without any evidence as well, also magically considered "credible"), and the people she surrounded herself with, was quite apparent that this was a mere character assassination attempt. A pathetic one too. But, history will remember the fact that illogical smear attempts didn't prevail. I'm not a fan of Kavanaugh, given who he worked for (which is precisely why people like Flake voted for him), but no one deserves this, and even though he won, his private life is basically ruined. But because of his position, he can't do what anyone harmed in this way would do, sue those people into the graveyard.

Ford was obviously lying 

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

5 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Ford was obviously lying 

.. with the Dems' blessing, which is why they helped her, gave her legal assistance, etc. Massively staged joke, all to gaslight the populace.

 

It's funny how eerily similar the approach for these hearings have to the impeachment ones.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

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Edited December 4, 2019 by ALFKAD

[laylalex 7,300]

2 hours ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Ford was obviously lying 

I'm sorry, perhaps to you. To me, there was a ring of truth about it. No one has proven or disproven what she said, so it's not right to say she was obviously lying. We don't know. I can say I think she was telling the truth, and that's just as accurate as you saying she was obviously lying. We don't know definitively. Kavanaugh is still a Supreme Court justice. Nobody should weep for Justice Kavanaugh -- he's going to be just fine. He's accepted in polite society and always will be. 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

8 minutes ago, laylalex said:

I'm sorry, perhaps to you. To me, there was a ring of truth about it. No one has proven or disproven what she said, so it's not right to say she was obviously lying. We don't know. I can say I think she was telling the truth, and that's just as accurate as you saying she was obviously lying. We don't know definitively. Kavanaugh is still a Supreme Court justice. Nobody should weep for Justice Kavanaugh -- he's going to be just fine. He's accepted in polite society and always will be. 

Had she been telling the truth, she would have told it years earlier, not at the crucial point in a man's career.  She was coached, seen clearly in the videos.

[laylalex 7,300]

Just now, ALFKAD said:

Had she been telling the truth, she would have told it years earlier, not at the crucial point in a man's career.  She was coached, seen clearly in the videos.

I would suggest you speak to women who have struggled with speaking their truth about powerful men. I have my own story, but the person in question is not nearly as powerful as Kavanaugh. He's a name that some people have heard of, most haven't. I have only ever spoken to one therapist, my ex-husband, my fiance and one friend about what happened. I have had to watch him climb in status over my life, knowing that my word is probably worth less than his. I have had many opportunities to speak out, but honestly, I'm still afraid of him on some level. He ###### with my head in a way that 18 years on I am still unravelling. What would I stand to gain from bringing it out into the open? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I can only imagine getting the kind of death threats Dr. Ford still gets -- imagine, because I am never going to go public, unless there is some situation where I think someone else's safety is at risk. I may have the financial ability to pursue it but there is no price I could pay for avoiding the agony. And to what end? It's been so many years. He's still messing with me occasionally, when our orbits collide or through mutual friends who say he mentioned me in passing, though I have tried to structure my life to avoid him at all costs. There are places I don't go. There are events and topics of discussion I avoid. My life was made smaller by him and he gets to go live his life and have his success and his beautiful family. 

 

I'm sorry but we are going to have to disagree. I see something very different from you, and we will not convince each other otherwise. It is, perhaps, best to leave it at that on my side, because I'm starting to get a little emotional. I would ask everyone to at least not reply to this post of mine, because I am going to bow out of this thread at this point for my own wellbeing. Sorry.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

25 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Had she been telling the truth, she would have told it years earlier, not at the crucial point in a man's career.  She was coached, seen clearly in the videos.

Not only that, but beyond trying to ruin his life work that led up to the SCOTUS nomination, the left, their gaslighting media, etc. set out to ruin Kavanaugh's personal life too, going after things/places he did/went to in his leisure time. This was a very calculated hit on someone, while the same people call for others to be empathetic, in the same breath suggest no empathy for Kavanaugh. Hence why Ford should just be in prison. Enough of these hoaxes, start jailing people. I get it that these people are having fun gaslighting the left and playing out these acts to rile them up and galvanize them, but too much is too much.

Edited December 4, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds

[luckytxn 2,265]

Just now, laylalex said:

Well, I think the baseline is that we should believe women, but we should also consider the context of the accusations. For me, something seems a little weird here -- why are her accusations not being touched by outlets you'd think would be stoked to carry them? So you can be skeptical but still be open, I think.

 

Ummmm, who said that? It certainly wasn't me. I think sure, yes, if there is any merit to this, there should be an investigation. I'm not saying she needs to completely build a case against Biden before an investigation could be launched. I'm saying -- does this pass the smell test? For all we know, there are journalists digging into this now. I think we need to take a wait and see approach, and see what corroborating stuff comes out. Virginia Giuffre has been able to give a lot of details and her accusations seem to pass the smell test for a lot of people. 

Because the media knows that most of the pedo's that Epstein coveted were Dems and they need that campaign money to stay in business. Now if that babe had said something about a Republican they would be all over it.

[Dashinka 24,747]

7 hours ago, laylalex said:

I would suggest you speak to women who have struggled with speaking their truth about powerful men. I have my own story, but the person in question is not nearly as powerful as Kavanaugh. He's a name that some people have heard of, most haven't. I have only ever spoken to one therapist, my ex-husband, my fiance and one friend about what happened. I have had to watch him climb in status over my life, knowing that my word is probably worth less than his. I have had many opportunities to speak out, but honestly, I'm still afraid of him on some level. He ###### with my head in a way that 18 years on I am still unravelling. What would I stand to gain from bringing it out into the open? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I can only imagine getting the kind of death threats Dr. Ford still gets -- imagine, because I am never going to go public, unless there is some situation where I think someone else's safety is at risk. I may have the financial ability to pursue it but there is no price I could pay for avoiding the agony. And to what end? It's been so many years. He's still messing with me occasionally, when our orbits collide or through mutual friends who say he mentioned me in passing, though I have tried to structure my life to avoid him at all costs. There are places I don't go. There are events and topics of discussion I avoid. My life was made smaller by him and he gets to go live his life and have his success and his beautiful family. 

 

I'm sorry but we are going to have to disagree. I see something very different from you, and we will not convince each other otherwise. It is, perhaps, best to leave it at that on my side, because I'm starting to get a little emotional. I would ask everyone to at least not reply to this post of mine, because I am going to bow out of this thread at this point for my own wellbeing. Sorry.

I don't think at the time Ford's version occurred, Kavanaugh was a powerful man or a person anyone had ever heard of.