Exactly what Tax Forms for I-864? RFE issue (merged)

[K + M 47]

1 hour ago, NikLR said:

Loving animals isn't the hard part, its the people who want you to diagnose something and treat it without paying for diagnostics or treatment.  Its the people.  People are the hardest part about the vet industry.  And i normally like people.

Anyhow!

Regardless you give the truthful reason. You made under the threshold to file during those years. That's all you need.  Its not an inquisition and you have a job now. 

Yeah, based on everything you have read about our case and this RFE is their anything that I could add to strengthen this RFE or have I covered every base to make this near to as 100% as I can to get approved and move forward?

[Villanelle 4,122]

You dont need to include your birth certificate/passport. In the instructions it states if you have a pending 130/129 or whatever that you dont need one. I dont know the exact wording off the top of my head. Basically since you are the mandatory primary sponsor who is required to file the 864 they know who you are and that you not only qualify to sign the 864 you are required to.  Niklr already explained the difference between transcripts and tax returns with supporting W2s. Transcripts are preferred but theres nothing wrong with sending returns as long as you include ALL W2s and 1099s and any other schedule or document used to prepare the taxes. Everyone has different tax situations so they may have a variety of documents besides W2s or maybe they just have W2s.

 

USCIS doesnt RFE for the same thing twice. So you get one shot to answer. If you only send a co-sponsor 864 and they want the 864a they will RFE for it because thats a new issue. Im also a little confused about why it would take additional time to get the Moms 864a if its a joint return? Is she unavailable to sign? 

 

IMO you got an RFE because you didnt include a separate statement of non filing. There is no such thing as correctly but not correctly enough. If it wasnt correct (entirely correct) then its considered incorrect/wrong. The 864 RFEs are processed in a very computer like response style as you see. If the numbers dont add up or something is missing- you get a response of 'do not qualify' and the generic RFE. In addition to missing the non filing statement it is questionable if your income actually does qualify you since its a new job. I understand your situation but I suspect you did not include a letter of explanation with the 864 about how you were a student and this is your first job etc etc and proof of your degree and a job letter etc etc. So the Officer has no idea unless you directly explain it to them. It would be very risky to send the RFE with just the non filing letter and a letter of explanation and hope they approve it. Because you were RFEd about that specific issue (told you didnt qualify and to use a joint sponsor or send info proving you qualify) if they do not accept your response it will be denied and not RFEd again. So including a co-sponsor is the ideal thing to do. If they have a problem with your co-sponsor (needs 864a or you send incorrect/incomplete tax info for them or no proof of USC) then they will RFe for that as its a separate issue. 

[K + M 47]

1 hour ago, Villanelle said:

You dont need to include your birth certificate/passport. In the instructions it states if you have a pending 130/129 or whatever that you dont need one. I dont know the exact wording off the top of my head. Basically since you are the mandatory primary sponsor who is required to file the 864 they know who you are and that you not only qualify to sign the 864 you are required to.  Niklr already explained the difference between transcripts and tax returns with supporting W2s. Transcripts are preferred but theres nothing wrong with sending returns as long as you include ALL W2s and 1099s and any other schedule or document used to prepare the taxes. Everyone has different tax situations so they may have a variety of documents besides W2s or maybe they just have W2s.

 

USCIS doesnt RFE for the same thing twice. So you get one shot to answer. If you only send a co-sponsor 864 and they want the 864a they will RFE for it because thats a new issue. Im also a little confused about why it would take additional time to get the Moms 864a if its a joint return? Is she unavailable to sign? 

 

IMO you got an RFE because you didnt include a separate statement of non filing. There is no such thing as correctly but not correctly enough. If it wasnt correct (entirely correct) then its considered incorrect/wrong. The 864 RFEs are processed in a very computer like response style as you see. If the numbers dont add up or something is missing- you get a response of 'do not qualify' and the generic RFE. In addition to missing the non filing statement it is questionable if your income actually does qualify you since its a new job. I understand your situation but I suspect you did not include a letter of explanation with the 864 about how you were a student and this is your first job etc etc and proof of your degree and a job letter etc etc. So the Officer has no idea unless you directly explain it to them. It would be very risky to send the RFE with just the non filing letter and a letter of explanation and hope they approve it. Because you were RFEd about that specific issue (told you didnt qualify and to use a joint sponsor or send info proving you qualify) if they do not accept your response it will be denied and not RFEd again. So including a co-sponsor is the ideal thing to do. If they have a problem with your co-sponsor (needs 864a or you send incorrect/incomplete tax info for them or no proof of USC) then they will RFe for that as its a separate issue. 

 

I believe the reason behind the RFE is just as you said behind the fact there was IRS statement of non-filing so they had no credible source/reason for the last 3 years of no tax transcripts, just my word which of course doesn't hold the merit they want.  I also believe though that, that is coupled with the fact that I put $0 down for my income the last 3 tax years and not "N/A", so the $0 coupled with no IRS no filing verification letter put a red flag up as no stability, and what not which led to the RFE.  I am glad that we all are on the same page and see the common denominator as to that is the RFE reason, its nice to get to the bottom of this.  

 

In the post you stated that I could send off the 864 alone and if they had an issue of no 864a that they would put another RFE out for that situation, as it is a different matter.  I would like to ask is there no chance then that they would skip the RFE for the issue of not having the 864a and go straight do a denial?  If I could just send in the 864 doing it that way would make things quicker/easier, but I do not want to risk a denial, but if there is no chance for the denial outright because no 864a sent in just 864 that could make it a little different.  

 

I am only asking that because of this post from before:

 

 

Also in your post you stated that I don't need the birth certificate, in the I-864 it says you need proof of being a USC which can be the birth certificate, so how could I not need a required document?  

 

Edited November 24, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[Villanelle 4,122]

Again they do not RFE for the same thing a second time. The RFE you have is for you not qualifying and asking for info that shows you do and/or a co-sponsor. So if they are not satisfied with what you send as a response showing how you do qualify and you do not provide a co-sponsor- they will not ask again for proof you qualify or a co-sponsor-  they will just deny it.

 

If you send proof of how you qualify (and its not deemed sufficient) and you include a co-sponsor 864 and theres an issue with the co-sponsor- then yes, they will RFE about whatever issue it is with the co-sponsor. That would be the first time they notify you about co-sponsor issue. The current RFE is simply asking for proof you qualify and/or the co-sponsor. So its not the same issue being RFEd again. 

[K + M 47]

1 minute ago, Villanelle said:

Again they do not RFE for the same thing a second time. The RFE you have is for you not qualifying and asking for info that shows you do and/or a co-sponsor. So if they are not satisfied with what you send as a response showing how you do qualify and you do not provide a co-sponsor- they will not ask again for proof you qualify or a co-sponsor-  they will just deny it.

 

If you send proof of how you qualify (and its not deemed sufficient) and you include a co-sponsor 864 and theres an issue with the co-sponsor- then yes, they will RFE about whatever issue it is with the co-sponsor. That would be the first time they notify you about co-sponsor issue. The current RFE is simply asking for proof you qualify and/or the co-sponsor. So its not the same issue being RFEd again. 

Everything there makes sense, just so its clear no matter what we are getting a co-sponsor already talked to my father about the issue and he is going to be our co-sponsor, it was just making sure that a straight denial isn't possible if no 864a.  

 

If there is no chance for the jump to a straight denial and just a possible RFE for a 864a then the plan of action for us will likely be:

 

IRS verifical letter of non filing for past 3 years

Formal Written Letter/Statement as to why no filing past 3 years

I-864 for Joint Sponsor

Tax Transcripts for past 3 years of Joint Sponsor (Joint)

Pay Stubs of Joint Sponsor

W-2's of joint

Birth Certificate of Joint Sponsor

[K + M 47]

Going to also update on this thread as the RFE process for this is going on, along with also asking questions for the process as they arise

 

Update:

 

Today I sent ordered online, and sent off a Form 4506-T to the IRS for the Verification Non-Filing form for the last 3 tax years.  Sent off the 4506-T in mail as online I ordered but there was just the option to order my tax transcript and no where was I able to select Verification of Nonfiling option, where as the 4506-T form had that option.  Next thing should be to work with the parents to get the I-864 completed for the Joint Sponsor, talked with parents multiples times during weekend and everyone on board.  Also I am doing more research into tax things and what not just to familiarize myself better with the tax transcript so when working on the joint with my parents things go smoothly.  Mostly looking into making sure I understand household sizes correctly from a tax transcript point of view.  Dependents and all that etc etc.  Things are moving ahead.

[Villanelle 4,122]

In all honesty the verification of non filing form from the IRS is not needed. Its great if you can obtain one but in all the years Ive been on VJ Ive seen countless people send just their own (self-created) stand alone letter of non filing and not have any issues... I can only think of one or two cases where people actually included the official IRS statement.  

 

Also its great to try to familiarize yourself with taxes and immigrants. There are a few threads about how to file that first year as a K. You should check them out and also consider trying to find a local CPA to help you the first year (or two). Do not use a place like HR block as they are just trained employees and not CPAs. You want a CPA and will pay accordingly!

 

Your parents household size may not be exactly what is on their taxes. Please re-read the instructions, as I said kids are counted (depending on age and other factors) even if they are not claimed on taxes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[K + M 47]

2 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

In all honesty the verification of non filing form from the IRS is not needed. Its great if you can obtain one but in all the years Ive been on VJ Ive seen countless people send just their own (self-created) stand alone letter of non filing and not have any issues... I can only think of one or two cases where people actually included the official IRS statement.  

 

Also its great to try to familiarize yourself with taxes and immigrants. There are a few threads about how to file that first year as a K. You should check them out and also consider trying to find a local CPA to help you the first year (or two). Do not use a place like HR block as they are just trained employees and not CPAs. You want a CPA and will pay accordingly!

 

Your parents household size may not be exactly what is on their taxes. Please re-read the instructions, as I said kids are counted (depending on age and other factors) even if they are not claimed on taxes. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah its figuring out the household size which is going to be the tricky part.  When you say re-read the instructions, which instructions are you exactly talking about, the ones on the I-864?  I would like to ask since I have a household size on my 864 for me and my wife, on my co-sponsor (parents) 864, if the total household size is lets say 5, if I already have a household size of 2 on my 864 then its not possible to have anymore than 3 on my parents household size correct?  I am just reasoning here that, but I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem according that I would be able to have a household size of 2 on mine then him having more than 3 on his as doesn't all the 864s of the same household have to add up to the overall total of the household?

 

Hopefully that all made sense.  To break it down and explain exactly what is going on its 5 people living in the house atm Me, my wife, my dad, my mom, my twin brother, my younger brother.  I already did my initial 864 with my AOS packet so theres 2, then when my dad does his 864 as co-sponsor wouldn't it be correct that his max household size can just be 3?  You can't double count people like that correct?  Hopefully I am thinking of it correctly.  

[Villanelle 4,122]

Your Dad is going to be a co-sponsor NOT a household member. So he is filling out his own 864. You are required to fill out an 864 as well. Yours will just show you+immigrant. Your Dads will show : Dad, his spouse (mom) + immigrant + any other dependents claimed on his taxes/ any kids depending on ages as explained previously. So yes, the immigrant is counted on both your 864 and your Dads. You just dont count the same person on the same 864 twice. And just because people all live in the same house they are not necessarily considered household members or dependents for the 864 purposes. IF you wanted to have Dad be a household member then its a whole other situation. It seems better for you to have Dad be a co-sponsor rather then a household member. 

 

The main question is- how old are your siblings?  

 

[K + M 47]

12 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

Your Dad is going to be a co-sponsor NOT a household member. So he is filling out his own 864. You are required to fill out an 864 as well. Yours will just show you+immigrant. Your Dads will show : Dad, his spouse (mom) + immigrant + any other dependents claimed on his taxes/ any kids depending on ages as explained previously. So yes, the immigrant is counted on both your 864 and your Dads. You just dont count the same person on the same 864 twice. And just because people all live in the same house they are not necessarily considered household members or dependents for the 864 purposes. IF you wanted to have Dad be a household member then its a whole other situation. It seems better for you to have Dad be a co-sponsor rather then a household member. 

 

The main question is- how old are your siblings?  

 

Yeah I want my dad to be my co-sponsor not a household member, My younger brother is 16, I am 26, twin 26(obviously lol), I have an older brother but he is not living with us he is in school for the last couple years ( I will have to see what they have on their taxes for this sibling) he is 28.  

Edited November 26, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[Villanelle 4,122]

So on dads we have so far dad, mom, immigrant, 16yr old (definitely) and possibly 28 yr old (if he is on their taxes as a dependent then count him, if he is not you dont) So Dads 864 household size is either going to be 4 or 5. Dads portion of income on the joint tax return needs to be enough to cover 4 or 5 respectively. If by some chance parents also claimed you  + twin it would make the household size larger. You should know if your parents claimed you at least because if they did it would be reflected in your taxes (where you check that someone else has claimed you, so you are taxed higher). 

[K + M 47]

4 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

So on dads we have so far dad, mom, immigrant, 16yr old (definitely) and possibly 28 yr old (if he is on their taxes as a dependent then count him, if he is not you dont) So Dads 864 household size is either going to be 4 or 5. Dads portion of income on the joint tax return needs to be enough to cover 4 or 5 respectively. If by some chance parents also claimed you  + twin it would make the household size larger. You should know if your parents claimed you at least because if they did it would be reflected in your taxes (where you check that someone else has claimed you, so you are taxed higher). 

So if I am understanding this correctly my dad's household size is for 100% certain dad+mom+16 year old+ immigrant = 4 then it comes down to out of me-twin-older brother which ones of us he claimed on the taxes as dependents, then whoever was claimed as dependents are added to the household size of 4, so the 100% is 4, and the maximum it can be is 7?  

Edited November 26, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[Villanelle 4,122]

yes

[K + M 47]

On 11/25/2019 at 8:58 PM, Villanelle said:

yes

Just asking to make sure on question 1.d part 1 of the 864 where it asks "I am the only joint sponsor"  that box is checked correct?  Only 1 joint sponsor even if doing also an 864a?  the 864a doesn't constitute 2 joint sponsors if taxes filed jointly just 1 joint sponsor?  Asking because if I do use my moms then its 2 incomes to make the total income, that doesn't mean 2 joint sponsors tho right?

[K + M 47]

Also I am curious on the instructions for 864a it says 

 

"Form I-864a may only be used when a sponsor's income and assets do not meet the income requirements of 864 and the qualifying household member chooses to combine his or her resources with the income and/or assets of a sponsor to meet the requirements."  

 

My father would meet the income requirements alone, but I am assuming the 864a here in this instance if I do use mothers aswell would be alright even tho meet income req's since its showcasing spouse, and they filed taxes jointly?

 

I also read in the instructions for the 864a that it talks about biometric appt, is there any chance the joint-sponsor or household member who fills out the 864a would have to attend a biometrics appointment?

Edited November 28, 2019 by Kerri and Myles