Exactly what Tax Forms for I-864? RFE issue (merged)

[K + M 47]

7 hours ago, pushbrk said:

The tax section "income" "as reported" is the total income from the 1040 no matter if it is combined with a spouse on the return and no matter who's income you think you are "using".

 

Current income for the employed, comes from a pay stub, full pay period gross times the number of pay periods in a year.  If a joint sponsor is filing an I-864 and files taxes jointly with a spouse, the best practice if for the spouse to provide an I-864a.  

 

1 hour ago, Jorgedig said:

This would only be accurate if employed in a salaried position.  For hourly employees, it can vary widely.

My father is employed in a salaried position.

 

With each answer this is getting more and more and more confusing, everyone keeps conflicting each other, if I am only using my dad and MFJ taxes what on earth do I put for Current annual household income, and then I was told only put my dads income for the last 3 tax years because he's the only sponsor but then pushbrk just now said use the total income from the tax transcript, do I leave person 1 blank if not using my mom?  

 

These are all the questions that need to be answered: 

 

Scenario:  MFJ tax transcript, but only want to use 1 of the salaries coming from the MFJ tax transcript, this being my dad, who exceeds the 125% poverty guideline.

 

Questions:

 

#1 is the field for 'Person 1' in Part 6 #8-#10 left blank since not using mom or "person 1' to help with sponsoring or contributing her income?

 

#2 For Part 6 #20 Would the "My Current Annual Household Income" be just my dads income?

 

#3 Would the box for #21 be left blank?

 

#4 Would the 'Total Income' for boxes on questions 24.a-24.c be just my dads income, or the income of mom+dad as reported on MFJ tax transcript?

 

For sakes to keep this easy to answer them, let's give a hypothetical stating that my dads income is 51k and my moms income is 49k

 

@Villanelle   @NikLR  @Jorgedig    @pushbrk

 

From what @Villanelle stated above I had a pretty good and understanding that the answers in order would be #1 Yes, #2 Just my dads income so $51k, #3 Left Blank, #4 51k for all tax years, but answers seem to be conflicting, as in @pushbrk is stating to use the total income coming from both partners that is reported on the MFJ tax transcript vs the 51k only, so I just want to come to 1 clear cut understanding to make sure this is either wrong or right before sending this RFE in.

 

Thank you so much in advance.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[pushbrk 13,044]

3 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

This would only be accurate if employed in a salaried position.  For hourly employees, it can vary widely.

It can, but if it varies, take an average of YTD, divided by the number of pay periods already in the year, and then multiply that average by the total number of pay periods in the year.  This mostly applies to people who earn commission, not "overtime".  For a full time 40 hour a week employee, take the hourly rate times 40 X 52.  rate times 2080 is the shortcut.  When stating current income it is not current year income, so overtime cannot be projected forward.  Hourly times the number of standard work hours in a  year.

[pushbrk 13,044]

1 hour ago, Kerri and Myles said:

 

My father is employed in a salaried position.

 

With each answer this is getting more and more and more confusing, everyone keeps conflicting each other, if I am only using my dad and MFJ taxes what on earth do I put for Current annual household income, and then I was told only put my dads income for the last 3 tax years because he's the only sponsor but then pushbrk just now said use the total income from the tax transcript, do I leave person 1 blank if not using my mom?  

 

These are all the questions that need to be answered: 

 

Scenario:  MFJ tax transcript, but only want to use 1 of the salaries coming from the MFJ tax transcript, this being my dad, who exceeds the 125% poverty guideline.

 

Questions:

 

#1 is the field for 'Person 1' in Part 6 #8-#10 left blank since not using mom or "person 1' to help with sponsoring or contributing her income?

 

#2 For Part 6 #20 Would the "My Current Annual Household Income" be just my dads income?

 

#3 Would the box for #21 be left blank?

 

#4 Would the 'Total Income' for boxes on questions 24.a-24.c be just my dads income, or the income of mom+dad as reported on MFJ tax transcript?

 

For sakes to keep this easy to answer them, let's give a hypothetical stating that my dads income is 51k and my moms income is 49k

 

@Villanelle   @NikLR  @Jorgedig    @pushbrk

 

From what @Villanelle stated above I had a pretty good and understanding that the answers in order would be #1 Yes, #2 Just my dads income so $51k, #3 Left Blank, #4 51k for all tax years, but answers seem to be conflicting, as in @pushbrk is stating to use the total income coming from both partners that is reported on the MFJ tax transcript vs the 51k only, so I just want to come to 1 clear cut understanding to make sure this is either wrong or right before sending this RFE in.

 

Thank you so much in advance.

 

 

I told you what to enter, no matter who you are "using".  I"m also advising that since your parents file taxes jointly, you DO state your mother's current income and provide an I-864 from her.  She is person 1.  The PDF will combine their incomes.  If you don't do it this way, expect the Consular Officer to request it at the interview, causing a delay of a month or so while you do what I"m telling you to do now.

 

How to enter information in the prior tax section is confirmed for you in the I-864 instructions, that you have only become a D student of, at best.  It is BECAUSE of those instructions, it is best practice to "use" both the married couples' incomes.

[K + M 47]

22 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

I told you what to enter, no matter who you are "using".  I"m also advising that since your parents file taxes jointly, you DO state your mother's current income and provide an I-864 from her.  She is person 1.  The PDF will combine their incomes.  If you don't do it this way, expect the Consular Officer to request it at the interview, causing a delay of a month or so while you do what I"m telling you to do now.

 

How to enter information in the prior tax section is confirmed for you in the I-864 instructions, that you have only become a D student of, at best.  It is BECAUSE of those instructions, it is best practice to "use" both the married couples' incomes.

I understand that is is 100% best to use father's + mother's current income, but the RFE deadline is the RFE deadline and if it comes down to it and I don't have my mother's paperwork by that deadline I can't just not submit the RFE because I didn't have it 'completely best' and I would have to give that information at the interview, so it is because of this deadline that I want to make sure I know how to enter the information with just my dads, and I have access to that and I am currently working on getting my mom's information, hopefully have the birth certificate soon, then its working on getting the pay stubs, and hopefully an employment verification letter. 

 

I understand my mom is 'person 1' but the answer you provided only clarifies if I am able to get her paperwork in time, so for the scenario of having the ability for this RFE to just use my dad's it is still unclear of if I would leave person 1 blank, from exactly how the instructions state, I would go with I would leave person 1 blank, but is this correct?

 

Also for calculating current annual income does one take into account overtime or anything else such , would it be gross pay+overtime, or pay after all taxes taken out w/ or w/o overtime?

 

Bringing these questions forward as it has been answered for if able to use both parents, as I understand that 100%, but still the scenario of only able to use dad's income is left unanswered.

 

#1 is the field for 'Person 1' in Part 6 #8-#10 left blank since not using mom or "person 1' to help with sponsoring or contributing her income?

 

#2 For Part 6 #20 Would the "My Current Annual Household Income" be just my dads income?

 

#3 Would the box for #21 be left blank?

 

#4 Would the 'Total Income' for boxes on questions 24.a-24.c be just my dads income, or the income of mom+dad as reported on MFJ tax transcript?

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[pushbrk 13,044]

Just now, Kerri and Myles said:

I understand that is is 100% best to use father's + mother's current income, but the RFE deadline is the RFE deadline and if it comes down to it and I don't have my mother's paperwork by that deadline I can't just not submit the RFE because I didn't have it 'completely best' and I would have to give that information at the interview, so it is because of this deadline that I want to make sure I know how to enter the information with just my dads, and I have access to that and I am currently working on getting my mom's information, hopefully have the birth certificate soon, then its working on getting the pay stubs, and hopefully an employment verification letter. 

 

I understand my mom is 'person 1' but the answer you provided only clarifies if I am able to get her paperwork in time, so for the scenario of having the ability for this RFE to just use my dad's it is still unclear of if I would leave person 1 blank, from exactly how the instructions state, I would go with I would leave person 1 blank, but is this correct?

 

 

 

Bringing these questions forward as it has been answered for if able to use both parents, as I understand that 100%, but still the scenario of only able to use dad's income is left unanswered.

 

#1 is the field for 'Person 1' in Part 6 #8-#10 left blank since not using mom or "person 1' to help with sponsoring or contributing her income?

 

#2 For Part 6 #20 Would the "My Current Annual Household Income" be just my dads income?

 

#3 Would the box for #21 be left blank?

 

#4 Would the 'Total Income' for boxes on questions 24.a-24.c be just my dads income, or the income of mom+dad as reported on MFJ tax transcript?

 

 

1.  There is no person one if you don't have paperwork from your mother and are not using her income.  Read the question on the form

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Line 6 from 2018 and line 22 from prior years.  Yes, that's the total income.  Third time I've given you this answer.  Read the instructions.

[K + M 47]

3 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

1.  There is no person one if you don't have paperwork from your mother and are not using her income.  Read the question on the form

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Line 6 from 2018 and line 22 from prior years.  Yes, that's the total income.  Third time I've given you this answer.  Read the instructions.

So that would be a yes to leaving blank for #1 if not using mom's income?

 

Also on #4 I am looking at the 2018 tax transcript and prior years, where exactly are you talking about for line 6 and line 22?

[pushbrk 13,044]

26 minutes ago, Kerri and Myles said:

So that would be a yes to leaving blank for #1 if not using mom's income?

 

Also on #4 I am looking at the 2018 tax transcript and prior years, where exactly are you talking about for line 6 and line 22?

I gave lines from the 1040.  From a return transcript, use the total income.

[K + M 47]

2 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

I gave lines from the 1040.  From a return transcript, use the total income.

Alright so I just want to make sure I have these clarified and I am going to answer them 100% correct, from what I have gathered I am going to answer these as so , please correct me if I am wrong on any of them

 

#1 is the field for 'Person 1' in Part 6 #8-#10 left blank since not using mom or "person 1' to help with sponsoring or contributing her income?

          Yes, leave blank

#2 For Part 6 #20 Would the "My Current Annual Household Income" be just my dads income?

            Would be just my dad's current annual income as calculated from his paystubs for the current year

#3 Would the box for #21 be left blank?

             Yes, would leave box #21 blank as no stated ' person 1' so no filing of I-864a

#4 Would the 'Total Income' for boxes on questions 24.a-24.c be just my dads income, or the income of mom+dad as reported on MFJ tax transcript?       The 'Total Income' for boxes 24.a - 24.c would be my mom+dad's income as reported on MFJ tax transcript line stating 'Total Income' right above the 'Adjustments to Income' Section.  So for example if my dad's income is 51k and my mom's is 49k for tax year 2018, even if just using my dad with my mom left out in this section for 'Total Income' I would still put 100k for the tax year of 2018 as that is what would be stated on the 2018 Tax Transcript.  

 

[pushbrk 13,044]

Just now, Kerri and Myles said:

Alright so I just want to make sure I have these clarified and I am going to answer them 100% correct, from what I have gathered I am going to answer these as so , please correct me if I am wrong on any of them

 

#1 is the field for 'Person 1' in Part 6 #8-#10 left blank since not using mom or "person 1' to help with sponsoring or contributing her income?

          Yes, leave blank

#2 For Part 6 #20 Would the "My Current Annual Household Income" be just my dads income?

            Would be just my dad's current annual income as calculated from his paystubs for the current year

#3 Would the box for #21 be left blank?

             Yes, would leave box #21 blank as no stated ' person 1' so no filing of I-864a

#4 Would the 'Total Income' for boxes on questions 24.a-24.c be just my dads income, or the income of mom+dad as reported on MFJ tax transcript?       The 'Total Income' for boxes 24.a - 24.c would be my mom+dad's income as reported on MFJ tax transcript line stating 'Total Income' right above the 'Adjustments to Income' Section.  So for example if my dad's income is 51k and my mom's is 49k for tax year 2018, even if just using my dad with my mom left out in this section for 'Total Income' I would still put 100k for the tax year of 2018 as that is what would be stated on the 2018 Tax Transcript.  

 

Yes, all correct, if you cannot get papers from your mother.  However, why is that a problem?  Perhaps the answer is private, but unless she is incapacitated, I would do all I could to get it done, if I were in your shoes.  

[K + M 47]

12 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

Yes, all correct, if you cannot get papers from your mother.  However, why is that a problem?  Perhaps the answer is private, but unless she is incapacitated, I would do all I could to get it done, if I were in your shoes.  

Thank you very much for confirming all that, I now am confident on answering all for the scenario of mom+dad and just dad.

 

I am going to exhaust every mean I can to get all her paperwork, I would also like to ask as the RFE states to get a joint sponsor, there wouldn't be a chance for a denial correct, as I would be having the Joint sponsor.  There could be a secondary RFE asking for I-864a from mom as that would be a separate issue, and from my understanding they never RFE for the same thing twice, so I-864a from mom would be a separate issue, or the means would be to take the information for I-864a to the interview?

 

Also while I can think about it, would 'curren annual income' be calculated with using 'gross' or 'net' income from paystubs?  And I am assuming to exclude overtime as that can't be predicted on a stable accurate basis for the course of the whole year correct?

Edited December 12, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[K + M 47]

I understand now that for 24.a. - 24.c. in Part 6 I put the total income from the MFJ tax transcript even if using just dad's income as we declared as before. But there is one thing I was curious about, and it is about where all this confusion about what to put in these three years tax total income lines arose.  Here is a snip from a previous post:  

 

 

 

In these posts it states 51k or just my dad's income for the tax years total income as it is asking for 'My total income' and since the I-864 is directed at him directly as the sponsor I can see how this logically makes sense.  But I want to understand WHY this isn't correct and you have to report the total income from both spouses for these tax years?  I know now that you would put the total income as reported on the MFJ tax transcript even if just using dad, but I want to understand, why?

 

@pushbrk

 

 

Thank you in advance, I greatly appreciate all your help, along with everyone else's, you are all so amazing! 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[pushbrk 13,044]

I've already answered all those questions correctly for you.  If you'll actually study the form instructions, you'll know I'm right.

[K + M 47]

2 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

I've already answered all those questions correctly for you.  If you'll actually study the form instructions, you'll know I'm right.

I don't doubt for a second that you are correct, I am 100% certain that you are, the form instructions state exactly what to do as I have been going over them many many times.  But they don't answer the why questions, I am just curious as to why that scenario as explained above in that previous post that I posted above is not right, I am curious as the understanding from why 100k is correct and 51k as the other user stated and explained is incorrect.  

 

From going over the instructions it does not indicate if use net or gross income to calculate current annual income, I am curious as to which of those would be correct?

[pushbrk 13,044]

1 hour ago, Kerri and Myles said:

I don't doubt for a second that you are correct, I am 100% certain that you are, the form instructions state exactly what to do as I have been going over them many many times.  But they don't answer the why questions, I am just curious as to why that scenario as explained above in that previous post that I posted above is not right, I am curious as the understanding from why 100k is correct and 51k as the other user stated and explained is incorrect.  

 

From going over the instructions it does not indicate if use net or gross income to calculate current annual income, I am curious as to which of those would be correct?

I cannot quote chapter and verse of the instructions, but it's there.  Since they tell you to use total income and total income DOES correspond to gross income, you have your answer.  Don't bother yourself so much with "why" questions.  It will drive you crazy and waste our time.  Maybe read the anonymous quote in my signature.  Combine your reading of I-864 instructions to I-864a instructions to get a "bigger picture".

[SalishSea 18,074]

4 hours ago, Kerri and Myles said:

I am going to exhaust every mean I can to get all her paperwork, I would also like to ask as the RFE states to get a joint sponsor, there wouldn't be a chance for a denial correct, as I would be having the Joint sponsor.

That is not correct at all.  Simply having a joint sponsor is no guarantee of an approval.