Exactly what Tax Forms for I-864? RFE issue (merged)

[Villanelle 4,122]

On 12/7/2019 at 2:45 PM, Kerri and Myles said:

Question about the Tax Transcript:  I see the line "Total INcome" above the Adjustments to Income section, although what I do not see is anywhere where the tax transcript is breaking the income down into 2 parts, mom's and dad's.  

It doesnt.

 

On 12/7/2019 at 2:45 PM, Kerri and Myles said:

For how I was understanding how the transcript would work with MFJ is that it would state my moms and dads income separately and then showcase the total together, which would be an addition of those 2.  But I can't seem to run across the two incomes stated separately.  Am I reading something wrong?  I am trying to figure out the exact amount to put down for my dad on it for my dads I-864 but I just see total income, not it stated separately.  And the names stated on the tax transcript says both my mom and my dad.  

You cant find it because it doesnt list it like that.

 

On 12/7/2019 at 2:45 PM, Kerri and Myles said:

Comparing the Wage and Income transcript with the Tax Return Transcript , the Wages, tips and other compensation comes out to a number that is not seen on the Tax Return Transcript so this is where my confusion lies.  The number from the Wage and Income Transcript is used, or just get my dad's W-2's to get the correct number or is there a spot actually on the MFJ Tax Return to get each spouses individual income?

 

From everything I am gathering, the answer to the last question is no, and the W-2's are needed to get individual income, and W-2's from employer would match the income from the Wage and Income Transcript part where it has " Form W-2 Wage and Tax Statement" line "Wages, Tips and Other Compensation.

 

 

There are many types of transcripts. You are referring to 2 here. One is the tax return transcript and the other is a Wage and income transcript. You need to submit the tax return transcript. They are not interested in the wage income one but you can use it for reference... The tax return transcript lists everything from the MFJ tax return. The wage income transcript lists an individual taxpayers income from w2s 1099s etc. 

 

 

[Villanelle 4,122]

On 12/9/2019 at 2:13 PM, Kerri and Myles said:

Do the Income and Wage Transcripts show individual incomes? I looked on the ones I have and I only was able to find 1 income, but that is what I presumed that individual W-2's would be required.  

 

Also for filling out the Total income for each last tax year I am guessing it works this way:

 

• If MFJ but only using 1 spouses income - each total income is still the total income that is stated on the MFJ tax transcript for each tax year

I have no idea what you are trying to say here... If you are only using Dads income you need to calculate how much of the joint income shown on the tax return transcript is his and enter that amount as his income on the 864. It will not match the total income line on the transcript as that line shows their joint income, so you need to provide his W2s showing the number you provided is his share of the reported joint income.

 

On 12/9/2019 at 2:13 PM, Kerri and Myles said:

• When filling in the information for household member (spouse) on I-864 if not using spouse as contributor would just leave the information for 'Person 1' blank as their income would not be contributing to Sponsorship

Yes, you only list household members if you are using their income.

On 12/9/2019 at 2:13 PM, Kerri and Myles said:

• The total household income would just be that spouses income, not the total income from that years tax transcript, but just the 1 joint sponsor's income, not joint sponsor + household member

Yes if only using Dad.

On 12/9/2019 at 2:13 PM, Kerri and Myles said:

• If using both spouses income - listing total income for each tax year would still be the same, as stated as the income on the MFJ tax transcript for each year

 

• If using both spouses income - wouldnt leave the information for 'person 1' blank, but this would be where the spouses information would be also listed, name-relationship-current income, as the spouses income would be contributing to the overall household income

 

• Total household income now would be main joint + spouse

If using both then you still need to break down whos portion of the income is what on the 864 but the total income line would match the total income line on the return. 

 

On 12/9/2019 at 2:13 PM, Kerri and Myles said:

Let me know if any of these are incorrect, would be greatly appreciated, basically its broken down into first 3 bolded lines are MFJ tax transcript - but only use 1 spouses income, then last 3 bolded lines are MFJ tax transcript and using both spouses income

 

[K + M 47]

7 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

I have no idea what you are trying to say here... If you are only using Dads income you need to calculate how much of the joint income shown on the tax return transcript is his and enter that amount as his income on the 864. It will not match the total income line on the transcript as that line shows their joint income, so you need to provide his W2s showing the number you provided is his share of the reported joint income.

 

 

 

 

I am referring to this part of the I-864:

 

Basically just trying to figure out if I use just dads, if the 'Total Income' would just be my dad's income for each year from his respective W-2 or the Total income from the Tax Transcript

Edited December 10, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[Villanelle 4,122]

Directly above those boxes it states something like My total income as reported on tax return etc etc. So they are asking for his total income- not the combined income, but his total income as reported. He reported 51k, its included in the joint total on the return, but he technically reported 51k of the 100 combined. So you would only enter his share there. Im also seeing I have been referring to the 864 in the guides which is a different older version so it has different item numbers!  On the updated version he will fill out part 6 #7 with his 51k, If mom is going to be used she would be person 1 #8 and enter her 49k there on #10. #20 would then be either his income alone if not using mom or the combine 51+49 of 100 if using both. Then #24 abc are asking for his income only as shown on his return as explained. 

[K + M 47]

3 minutes ago, Villanelle said:

Directly above those boxes it states something like My total income as reported on tax return etc etc. So they are asking for his total income- not the combined income, but his total income as reported. He reported 51k, its included in the joint total on the return, but he technically reported 51k of the 100 combined. So you would only enter his share there. Im also seeing I have been referring to the 864 in the guides which is a different older version so it has different item numbers!  On the updated version he will fill out part 6 #7 with his 51k, If mom is going to be used she would be person 1 #8 and enter her 49k there on #10. #20 would then be either his income alone if not using mom or the combine 51+49 of 100 if using both. Then #24 abc are asking for his income only as shown on his return as explained. 

Thanks so much for answering all that, such a huge help, and the exact text from the 864 above the boxes is: (sorry for not including it)

 

So if I am understanding this the number that would work appropriately for those 3 years if using both would be from tax transcript, but if just using dad only would be from forms from the tax guy as in the W-2/Federal income Tax Return ?

 

I am working on getting the W-2 for my dad for the last 3 years along with my mom (getting both just in case, but most likely will have to be just using my dad as joint sponsor, but if I can get the information for my mom I will jump on that, as I know it is 'stronger'), but I could just put the total income from each year from each years respective W-2 correct - that's if just using dad.

[Lemonslice 4,841]

1 hour ago, Kerri and Myles said:

Alright so with that I would leave my mom out from household family members on my dads joint sponsor I-864.

 

You said annual household income comes from the tax return transcript as combined with my father+mother, but isn't the household income that is being used the combined total of the sponsor + any household members that are contributing? 

 

 

Which income do you want to use?  Decide on that, and then read the instructions for your situation. 

[K + M 47]

56 minutes ago, Lemonslice said:

Which income do you want to use?  Decide on that, and then read the instructions for your situation. 

 

I want to use both my moms and my dads income as that would be the best, and no potential for a follow up RFE asking for my moms I-864a, but the reason I am asking about both is that I am currently working on, and trying every outlet to get both my dad's and my moms paperwork, but that might not be possible.  And if that is not possible and as the 87 day deadline looms closer I would need to have the best thing at my disposal to send in for this RFE which would be my dad as the joint sponsor without my mom's information + all my corrected info.

 

I want to use both, I might only be able to use my dad's, so I need to know how to do both situations 100% correctly.

[Villanelle 4,122]

9 hours ago, Kerri and Myles said:

Thanks so much for answering all that, such a huge help, and the exact text from the 864 above the boxes is: (sorry for not including it)

 

So if I am understanding this the number that would work appropriately for those 3 years if using both would be from tax transcript, but if just using dad only would be from forms from the tax guy as in the W-2/Federal income Tax Return ?

 

I am working on getting the W-2 for my dad for the last 3 years along with my mom (getting both just in case, but most likely will have to be just using my dad as joint sponsor, but if I can get the information for my mom I will jump on that, as I know it is 'stronger'), but I could just put the total income from each year from each years respective W-2 correct - that's if just using dad.

It says "MY total income as reported" Not Joint total income or even simply total income shown. It specifically asks for the individuals income. My  is being directed at the person filling out the form. So in either scenario if I am your Dad- my total income is 51k.  If you are going to fill out forms for both scenarios once again:

 

 Dad only- part 6 #7 with his 51k, nothing for person1  #8 or #10. #20 will show 51k,  24abc 51k, 51k, 51k (or whatever is his share of the joint income for those years)

Dad and mom- part 6 #7 51k, moms info person 1 #8, #10 49k. #20 100k, 24abc 51k 51k 51k (again whatever is his share as evidenced by his W2s. This requires you to do math and figure out how much of the joint total income is his in order to figure out what the answer is to 'my income as shown on returns is X' question_)

 

 

 

[NikLR 13,227]

OKay here I decided to take snips.

 

 

 

Ideally in Current annual HOUSEHOLD income, this would include your mother's income since the qualifier does say "household" and your mother's information would go in this one spot and she would fill out an I-864a.

 

 

 

Regardless she's part of the household and her information should go here and her income also included.  However, she can choose not to sign an I-864a and you just don't click the box. 

 

Your dad's income ONLY goes in the tax return information and his current income. 

 

If you are ONLY using your dad's income, you would include his w2s with the tax return transcript to show his income only. 

 

 

If your mother signs a completed I-864a, then you do not need to include w2s showing individual incomes. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2019 by NikLR

[K + M 47]

9 hours ago, NikLR said:

OKay here I decided to take snips.

 

 

 

Ideally in Current annual HOUSEHOLD income, this would include your mother's income since the qualifier does say "household" and your mother's information would go in this one spot and she would fill out an I-864a.

 

 

 

Regardless she's part of the household and her information should go here and her income also included.  However, she can choose not to sign an I-864a and you just don't click the box. 

 

Your dad's income ONLY goes in the tax return information and his current income. 

 

If you are ONLY using your dad's income, you would include his w2s with the tax return transcript to show his income only. 

 

 

If your mother signs a completed I-864a, then you do not need to include w2s showing individual incomes. 

 

 

 

 

 

What you told me about the information that would go in 'Person 1' directly conflicts with what @Villanelle, you are saying that if I don't use mom I still fill in her information, and her income in 'person 1' but just don't check the box, villanelle said that if not using mom I leave the information for 'Person 1' blank

 

 

So, which is it?

[K + M 47]

From the I-864 instructions:

 

 

It states if your individual annual income listed is greater than 125% of the guideline for the household size you do not NEED to include any other household member's income.  Wouldn't these instructions here be directly stating that since my dad's income is greater than the 125% for the household listed that person 1 would be left blank?  

 

@NikLR @Villanelle

[NikLR 13,227]

5 hours ago, Kerri and Myles said:

What you told me about the information that would go in 'Person 1' directly conflicts with what @Villanelle, you are saying that if I don't use mom I still fill in her information, and her income in 'person 1' but just don't check the box, villanelle said that if not using mom I leave the information for 'Person 1' blank

 

 

So, which is it?

We read it differently.  To be honest thr best person for this question is @pushbrk

4 hours ago, Kerri and Myles said:

From the I-864 instructions:

 

 

It states if your individual annual income listed is greater than 125% of the guideline for the household size you do not NEED to include any other household member's income.  Wouldn't these instructions here be directly stating that since my dad's income is greater than the 125% for the household listed that person 1 would be left blank?  

 

@NikLR @Villanelle

I would not since theyre married and file MFJ. 

[K + M 47]

1 hour ago, NikLR said:

We read it differently.  To be honest the best person for this question is @pushbrk

I would not since theyre married and file MFJ. 

So the question it is coming down to is, since MFJ, but if just using dad is 'person 1 left' blank, but since just using dad would Annual household income be just dad then uncheck box 21.  The way I read box 21 is checking for people that have completed for I-864a, not checking for household members that are contributing income.  

 

Would it be since using just dad, but MFJ to leave 'person 1' blank since not using moms income, have #20 as just dads income, and leave #21 unchecked since no household members were included, and therefore no I-864a going to be filed, showcasing a reason for why person 1 was left blank?

 

Or.....

 

Would it be since using just dad but MFJ to include mom in 'person 1' because it was MFJ and shes apart of the MFJ tax transcript, but have just dads income for #20 in current annual household income, and leave box #21 unchecked, since of course as stated above no  I-864a being submitted since not using mom's income.

 

I also understand how it is for 24abc for each year if using just dad would be his income solely from W-2's from each respectable tax year.

 

I also know that if using both for 'person 1' would put mom there and her income, and #20 would be the 2 incomes together, and #24abc would be the total income reported from each years tax transcript with no W-2's needed, just tax transcript.  

 

The 2 questions in bold are what is exactly trying to be figured out, which one would it be for this situation, 'person 1' filled in, or 'person 1'  left blank if using just dad's income?

 

Btw thank you for linking @pushbrk  to this, lets get to the bottom of this and get this figured out together, and hopefully it also is helping out others who are viewing this thread, also thank you for all your help, and everyone elses on this thread so far, the RFE response is coming along great, but just need to figure out this exactly, so the I-864a for the joint sponsor can be filled out with 100% certainty.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Kerri and Myles

[pushbrk 12,883]

The tax section "income" "as reported" is the total income from the 1040 no matter if it is combined with a spouse on the return and no matter who's income you think you are "using".

 

Current income for the employed, comes from a pay stub, full pay period gross times the number of pay periods in a year.  If a joint sponsor is filing an I-864 and files taxes jointly with a spouse, the best practice if for the spouse to provide an I-864a.  

[SalishSea 17,829]

5 hours ago, pushbrk said:

Current income for the employed, comes from a pay stub, full pay period gross times the number of pay periods in a year

This would only be accurate if employed in a salaried position.  For hourly employees, it can vary widely.