Poll: Majority of Republicans say Trump better president than Lincoln

[OriZ 3,157]

9 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

If more people did, then less people would vote, and the only criteria for the winner would be who had enough money to buy the most votes.  Not my idea of a viable solution.

Then it would be time to obviate the state altogether.

[OriZ 3,157]

9 hours ago, Burnt Reynolds said:

It's entirely psychological, and in its own way, both a unique American problem, and in other ways, the human condition.

 

I think the more people are self-aware, the more they understand we are hard-wired to be irrational. We're constantly fighting an uphill battle against nature that requires resilience. And when/if we let our guard down (which is natural), we open the door to exploitation. 

 

When I say self-aware, I mean critical comparison, introspection.. having a look around the world, seeing a plethora of countries that don't have this two party problem. Looking at where we facilitate this problem perpetuating itself. 

 

And in the end, we'd realize its "us", individually. Over 95% of the populace in federal elections now vote "D" or "R" cycle after cycle. So when people talk themselves up as independents, the vast majority are lying, their actions don't align with how they portray themselves. This is one of those things that make up the human condition. We're wired to think of our actions in respect to what we think they are, rather than what they are. If I vote D or R, election after election, I can call myself independent as much as I like, but I'm not, unless I literally have two choices every single time, but that's rarely the case. There's almost always third parties and write-ins. People nowadays have more information in front of them then ever, and even with that, they're, even more-so, behaving in ways that can easily be steered. 

 

The primary way it happens is because few people want to take individual responsibility for what is entirely an individual act. People vote for someone, they behave in a corrupt way, time after time after time, but they vote for them again. Endless incumbency. Their solution, every time, is these magic systemic regulators (the system regulating itself magic bullet) -- "pass term limits", "pass campaign finance reform", blaming the term limits, or blaming money, or blaming government, when it's actually the voters' fault. They're delegating responsibility of how they vote to others (also called blame shifting), so it's no wonder they're making the same screw-up's over and over, with the same/worsening results, but expecting different. So few people want to actually make what is, in reality, a ridiculously easy change. You just change your criteria, vote for who you think is the best, ignore all the other psychological fakeouts (e.g. "you're wasting your vote if you vote _____"), go vote, check a different box/write-in a name. Bam, done. Not hard. But apparently, it is.

 

If people behaved differently, it would result in systemic changes. 

 

Money only buys votes if people allow the things money buys to dictate their vote. And they do, at a very high rate.

Alright Dr. Phil, I have to say I disagree with you people who consider themselves independent but vote D or R are lying. I don't call it that. They are simply doing what 90% of the participants in this forum seem to advocate for. Being independent doesn't mean you don't still want to be able to influence by choosing 1 of what you know are the only 2 viable candidates, whichever is more closely aligned with your independent views. I've never considered myself a Democratic or a Republican, but when push came to shove I would vote for either, whoever I agreed with more. That said, as I have mentioned for me personally, it's not what I feel is right anymore. For other independents it might still be.

 

I do agree with you that the easiest thing to do is vote for whoever you think is best. And I genuinely believe any of the 3 choices I mentioned earlier would be better than the trash we're presented with, so yup, it's an easy choice for me.

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

5 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Alright Dr. Phil, I have to say I disagree with you people who consider themselves independent but vote D or R are lying. I don't call it that. They are simply doing what 90% of the participants in this forum seem to advocate for. Being independent doesn't mean you don't still want to be able to influence by choosing 1 of what you know are the only 2 viable candidates, whichever is more closely aligned with your independent views. I've never considered myself a Democratic or a Republican, but when push came to shove I would vote for either, whoever I agreed with more. That said, as I have mentioned for me personally, it's not what I feel is right anymore. For other independents it might still be.

 

I do agree with you that the easiest thing to do is vote for whoever you think is best. And I genuinely believe any of the 3 choices I mentioned earlier would be better than the trash we're presented with, so yup, it's an easy choice for me.

There's no such thing as a "viable candidate" in an "independent" sense any more than someone chooses a "viable wife" in an independent sense. It is other people then choosing the criteria for you. We all have the option to allow others to influence our choices, but the more one allows that influence, the less of an individual choice it is.

[ohcoffeeeyes 120]

On 12/1/2019 at 1:57 PM, Burnt Reynolds said:

Us independents also are coming around. It's not only hard to argue with results, but the left are becoming so unhinged (even abandoning key liberal viewpoints) it's alienating those of us who had many agreements with them ideologically.

 

People see this attack on free speech, this sudden neocon/USIC alliance, open borders fetish, climate hysteria, and so on, and want no part of it. These people have become deranged.

Chief youre not an independent I'm sorry. I highly doubt you ever voted Democrat aside from probably Obama in 08 (if youre actually that old.)

[ohcoffeeeyes 120]

On 12/5/2019 at 9:43 AM, OriZ said:

I have decided I am not interested in voting for the lesser of two evils anymore - if someone doesn't match the type of leader I want them to be(and none of the current candidates, including the sitting president, do), then I will just vote for myself, my cat, or the crypto project I'm involved with. I think Trump is still a big part of the machine...I have 3 tests for each candidate and he only passes one of them.

And good for you, especially in an election like this where it's obvious who is going to win. Democracy is usually seen as this beautiful thing but then when you see how people vote, you realize how feeble and flawed it is, there is no such thing as true democracy in places such as the U.S.A. 

[OriZ 3,157]

32 minutes ago, ohcoffeeeyes said:

And good for you, especially in an election like this where it's obvious who is going to win. Democracy is usually seen as this beautiful thing but then when you see how people vote, you realize how feeble and flawed it is, there is no such thing as true democracy in places such as the U.S.A. 

There is no such thing as true democracy anywhere, really. Government is the largest, legalized crime organization in the world.

[ohcoffeeeyes 120]

Just now, OriZ said:

There is no such thing as true democracy anywhere, really. Government is the largest, legalized crime organization in the world.

I must honestly agree, though I feel like nowadays its a hot take to denounce democracy entirely. 

[laylalex 7,284]

Just now, ohcoffeeeyes said:

I must honestly agree, though I feel like nowadays its a hot take to denounce democracy entirely. 

Stick around, there are a LOT of hot takes in here.  

[OriZ 3,157]

2 hours ago, ohcoffeeeyes said:

I must honestly agree, though I feel like nowadays its a hot take to denounce democracy entirely. 

I am not denouncing democracy itself by a longshot. I think the fact we don't have true democracy is why we end up with the mafia in power instead. For the people by the people is dead and buried.

Edited December 9, 2019 by OriZ

[Burnt Reynolds 5,058]

4 hours ago, ohcoffeeeyes said:

Chief youre not an independent I'm sorry. I highly doubt you ever voted Democrat aside from probably Obama in 08 (if youre actually that old.)

Oh, so close, "chief"! I registered as DTS in California at 18, and have never joined a party since, and never will. I've voted for two Democrats before, Gore and Kerry. I initially was going to vote for Obama in 2008, but his actions at he DNC proved he was a liar, which he cemented after his election. So, Kerry was the last Democrat I voted for, and Trump is going to be the first Republican I vote for. My other votes are Independent/Green, and Libertarian (2x).

 

The beauty of being an independent, especially one with a spine, is the hacks on either side can't stand you. Sane people understand us, the others, without a hint of irony, try to pigeonhole us. 😎

Edited December 9, 2019 by Burnt Reynolds