24 States Would Have No Legal Protections for Abortion if Roe v. Wade Is Overturned

[90DayFinancier 910]

20 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Playing the devil's advocate.  Why then does the woman get solely decision to terminate

Practically speaking is this only slightly more than a hypothetical? Most of the unintended pregnancies outside of a stable relationship have the father denying and hiding from the parental responsibility.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

1 minute ago, laylalex said:

Because ultimately it is her body in which a fetus would mature. To require her to continue a pregnancy that she does not wish to continue is to put her in involuntary servitude, provided that any termination is done within legal time limits. What is the benefit of forcing a woman to bring a pregnancy to term that she does not want? I would think that having a safe abortion under medical supervision would be better than her trying to induce her own abortion. Women are always going to find ways to terminate pregnancies. Abortion has been with us for millennia. Keeping it safe and legal is in the best interests of all of society.

What about the father who wants to keep and raise the child that he has fathered?

[90DayFinancier 910]

1 minute ago, laylalex said:

Because ultimately it is her body in which a fetus would mature. To require her to continue a pregnancy that she does not wish to continue is to put her in involuntary servitude, provided that any termination is done within legal time limits. What is the benefit of forcing a woman to bring a pregnancy to term that she does not want? I would think that having a safe abortion under medical supervision would be better than her trying to induce her own abortion. Women are always going to find ways to terminate pregnancies. Abortion has been with us for millennia. Keeping it safe and legal is in the best interests of all of society.

We might point out that the Handmaidens Tale is not an uplifting documentary.  

[laylalex 7,300]

Just now, ALFKAD said:

What about the father who wants to keep and raise the child that he has fathered?

When he can carry around a fetus, and subject himself to the great physical changes, some of which can be permanent or enduring, that pregnancy brings about, fine. You do know there is a higher risk of maternal mortality from pregnancy than from a legal abortion, right? You're a dad, right? You know that pregnancy is no joke on a woman's body. I terminated before the end of the first trimester, and was able to get a medical abortion rather than a surgical one. Even though it was early, I had serious problems like hyperemesis. Why would you force a woman to do something that will cause her physical and psychological trauma if she does not want to give birth, just because someone else wants it? I just cannot wrap my head around that. Fetuses pick up on stress of the mother, and a woman forced to carry to term would be under enormous stress.

[Boris Farage 353]

2 minutes ago, laylalex said:

When he can carry around a fetus, and subject himself to the great physical changes, some of which can be permanent or enduring, that pregnancy brings about, fine. You do know there is a higher risk of maternal mortality from pregnancy than from a legal abortion, right? You're a dad, right? You know that pregnancy is no joke on a woman's body. I terminated before the end of the first trimester, and was able to get a medical abortion rather than a surgical one. Even though it was early, I had serious problems like hyperemesis. Why would you force a woman to do something that will cause her physical and psychological trauma if she does not want to give birth, just because someone else wants it? I just cannot wrap my head around that. Fetuses pick up on stress of the mother, and a woman forced to carry to term would be under enormous stress.

Thank you for making my point.

 

You want all the rights, but none of the responsibility.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

32 minutes ago, laylalex said:

When he can carry around a fetus, and subject himself to the great physical changes, some of which can be permanent or enduring, that pregnancy brings about, fine. You do know there is a higher risk of maternal mortality from pregnancy than from a legal abortion, right? You're a dad, right? You know that pregnancy is no joke on a woman's body. I terminated before the end of the first trimester, and was able to get a medical abortion rather than a surgical one. Even though it was early, I had serious problems like hyperemesis. Why would you force a woman to do something that will cause her physical and psychological trauma if she does not want to give birth, just because someone else wants it? I just cannot wrap my head around that. Fetuses pick up on stress of the mother, and a woman forced to carry to term would be under enormous stress.

Literally MILLIONS of women give birth with no mortality.  

 

About 700 women die annually, while there are about 3.788 million births.  I'll let you cipher what the odds of 700/3,788,235 is.  Weak argument, that.  One might say... UBER weak.

Edited November 26, 2019 by ALFKAD

[laylalex 7,300]

53 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

Literally MILLIONS of women give birth with no mortality.  

 

About 700 women die annually, while there are about 3.788 million births.  I'll let you cipher what the odds of 700/3,788,235 is.  Weak argument, that.  One might say... UBER weak.

Does it change the fact that abortion is safer than bringing a child to term? Of COURSE I know that most pregnancies do not result in maternal mortality. Please. But why would anyone force a woman to carry a fetus to term that she does not want, given the dangers of high stress pregnancy to mother AND the developing fetus? Why mess with a woman's head and make her an incubator against her will? I have yet to hear an argument, not from you only, but from anyone, that forced pregnancy is something that we as a society should endorse. 

[Boketto 211]

Why would anyone want to force women to have more babies they can’t handle or raise? Odd that people think forcefully adding to the human population is a good thing, too. There’re enough humans on earth as it is. And yet, even though they think the socially disadvantaged should be forced to pop out as many babies as they have the misfortune of conceiving, they do not want them to be on the welfare teat or receive government aid. So which is it? Should the problem be stemmed at a point where the woman is still in control of the situation or should they churn out more babies that we don’t have any interest in helping with our taxes? 

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

20 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Does it change the fact that abortion is safer than bringing a child to term? Of COURSE I know that most pregnancies do not result in maternal mortality. Please. But why would anyone force a woman to carry a fetus to term that she does not want, given the dangers of high stress pregnancy to mother AND the developing fetus? Why mess with a woman's head and make her an incubator against her will? I have yet to hear an argument, not from you only, but from anyone, that forced pregnancy is something that we as a society should endorse. 

For thousands of years, women have been giving birth without dying.  How is abortion safer than natural childbirth?

 

And if a woman doesn't want to deal with child bearing... isn't it much simpler to keep ones legs together?

[laylalex 7,300]

6 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

For thousands of years, women have been giving birth without dying.  How is abortion safer than natural childbirth?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271 (Also note I did not make a distinction between natural childbirth and c-sections.) A good article related to this study is here: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-abortion/abortion-safer-than-giving-birth-study-idUSTRE80M2BS20120123

 

There are a TON of links out there very near the top of results pages on this that will say this study is incorrect. Beware of where they come from. I trust the NIH over an anti-choice source. 

14 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

And if a woman doesn't want to deal with child bearing... isn't it much simpler to keep ones legs together?

How amusing. Have you been speaking with @Boris Farage recently? This sounds like something he'd say, not you.

[Boketto 211]

30 minutes ago, ALFKAD said:

And if a woman doesn't want to deal with child bearing... isn't it much simpler to keep ones legs together?

I’m gonna bet there are more men than women that don’t want to deal with the consequences of jizzing his way into 18 years of financial bondage 🤣

[90DayFinancier 910]

The consequences argument makes the least sense:

 

“You should keep your legs together.”  “Your lack of control over your own hormones, stupidity, carelessness, laziness and inconsiderateness created another life within you."  “She should have to deal with the consequences.”  "We shouldn't have to pay for your birth control to be slutty'

 

A the fetus is supposed to be a blessing that you should protect and nuture into a child, but you get what you deserve if you are a Slutty ####### and have sex.  Oh yeah and expect don't us to pick up the tab for well baby care or infant formula or a few weeks off.

-Pick an argument

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by 90DayFinancier

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

6 hours ago, laylalex said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22270271 (Also note I did not make a distinction between natural childbirth and c-sections.) A good article related to this study 

I see what you're driving at now.  So if we combine your study with my numbers above,  we can justify 3.3 million aborted babies each year because we are effectively saving 700 women's lives.  If that makes sense to you, then there is no need to continue talking about this.

 

It's statistically safer to ride in a plane than a car.  Are you going to start taking a jet to work every day?

[yuna628 9,717]

Not this again guys... jeez, we've been all over this topic before in another thread.

 

Have you forgotten me pointing out before that thousands of women do make these decisions with their husbands, partners, bfs, and families every single year? That the rate of deaths of infants and mothers due to childbirth or during delivery is quite high compared to other countries, especially in rural and poor communities? The US also has an increasing and the highest rate of maternal mortality in the world? And that if men are willing to be men, and to step up and create life and be fathers, and care enough for a woman to not have an abortion after they have abandoned them, then they had better start taking responsibility doing so.

Edited November 26, 2019 by yuna628

[Rosalind F 178]

11 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

For thousands of years, women have been giving birth without dying.  How is abortion safer than natural childbirth?

 

5 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

I see what you're driving at now.  So if we combine your study with my numbers above,  we can justify 3.3 million aborted babies each year because we are effectively saving 700 women's lives.  If that makes sense to you, then there is no need to continue talking about this.

If a woman is lucky enough to NOT DIE due to childbirth there are so many things that get wrong the organism during the pregnancy and will affect the quality of life for a long time, including high blood pressure, depression, anemia, and many more. Then post-childbirth complications kick in. 

It IS safer to not get pregnant. Nobody should be able to force anybody to experience the health-threatening conditions, it must be a personal choice.