Border woes for Canadian muslim

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Then would you have a problem if you are someday subjected to something similar? Would you still feel that it's ok to engage in profiling? It is possible you know.

first i am a US citizen, i do have protection under the law. second, USCIS is charged with keeping undesirables from entering into the US, be it criminals, drug users, terrorists or religious extremists. the surpreme court ruled that there are certain limits on religious freedoms in the US. mainly if the religion performs or encourage behavior that is counter to the maintenance of a stable community, i.e. sacrificing virgins because it is "your religion" is not acceptable. if you are NOT a US citizen and choose to try and enter the US, you are subject to scrutiny on ALL levels.

. . or dentists who happen to be muslim.

And actually, you might want to bone up on your rights at the border - even as a US citizen you have NO Rights at the border. You have no miranda rights; ou cannot make a phone call; you do not have the right to talk to a lawyer; you can be held without knowledge and awareness of anyone by your own border authorities and it is perfectly legal. The border guards are the ultimate authority and they make the deciisions about what you will and will not be allowed to do. So, even if you are a US citizen, if they want to believe you are a person of interest, you don't have any rights at all. I think it is in everyone's interests - US citizens and visitors to the US - that border officials are educated, knowledgeable and perform their jobs responsibly, intelligently and with integrity.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Then would you have a problem if you are someday subjected to something similar? Would you still feel that it's ok to engage in profiling? It is possible you know.

first i am a US citizen, i do have protection under the law. second, USCIS is charged with keeping undesirables from entering into the US, be it criminals, drug users, terrorists or religious extremists. the surpreme court ruled that there are certain limits on religious freedoms in the US. mainly if the religion performs or encourage behavior that is counter to the maintenance of a stable community, i.e. sacrificing virgins because it is "your religion" is not acceptable. if you are NOT a US citizen and choose to try and enter the US, you are subject to scrutiny on ALL levels.

. . or dentists who happen to be muslim.

And actually, you might want to bone up on your rights at the border - even as a US citizen you have NO Rights at the border. You have no miranda rights; ou cannot make a phone call; you do not have the right to talk to a lawyer; you can be held without knowledge and awareness of anyone by your own border authorities and it is perfectly legal. The border guards are the ultimate authority and they make the deciisions about what you will and will not be allowed to do. So, even if you are a US citizen, if they want to believe you are a person of interest, you don't have any rights at all. I think it is in everyone's interests - US citizens and visitors to the US - that border officials are educated, knowledgeable and perform their jobs responsibly, intelligently and with integrity.

But perhaps he was held under the fact that he is an imam who airs public views about his religion?

If we're talking red-flags that might be the bigger one, rather than the fact that he's a muslim who also happens to be a dentist.

[doodlebug 3]

This is the guy we're talking about. He's an imam in addition to a professor of dentistry.

wow, an Iman you say? i'm sorry i doubted his word!

i'd trust an Iman's word no more than catholic priests who say "no i didn't molest that boy!"

and the transcript i was refering to was the one for the interview. no statement was made by the DoS or USCIS.

He's an "imam", not "iman".

Then would you have a problem if you are someday subjected to something similar? Would you still feel that it's ok to engage in profiling? It is possible you know.

first i am a US citizen, i do have protection under the law. second, USCIS is charged with keeping undesirables from entering into the US, be it criminals, drug users, terrorists or religious extremists. the surpreme court ruled that there are certain limits on religious freedoms in the US. mainly if the religion performs or encourage behavior that is counter to the maintenance of a stable community, i.e. sacrificing virgins because it is "your religion" is not acceptable. if you are NOT a US citizen and choose to try and enter the US, you are subject to scrutiny on ALL levels.

. . or dentists who happen to be muslim.

And actually, you might want to bone up on your rights at the border - even as a US citizen you have NO Rights at the border. You have no miranda rights; ou cannot make a phone call; you do not have the right to talk to a lawyer; you can be held without knowledge and awareness of anyone by your own border authorities and it is perfectly legal. The border guards are the ultimate authority and they make the deciisions about what you will and will not be allowed to do. So, even if you are a US citizen, if they want to believe you are a person of interest, you don't have any rights at all. I think it is in everyone's interests - US citizens and visitors to the US - that border officials are educated, knowledgeable and perform their jobs responsibly, intelligently and with integrity.

But perhaps he was held under the fact that he is an imam who airs public views about his religion?

If we're talking red-flags that might be the bigger one, rather than the fact that he's a muslim who also happens to be a dentist.

That seems like it was the case just by reading your article about him. I highly doubt we'll ever find out what really happened though.

[KarenCee 3]

Then would you have a problem if you are someday subjected to something similar? Would you still feel that it's ok to engage in profiling? It is possible you know.

first i am a US citizen, i do have protection under the law. second, USCIS is charged with keeping undesirables from entering into the US, be it criminals, drug users, terrorists or religious extremists. the surpreme court ruled that there are certain limits on religious freedoms in the US. mainly if the religion performs or encourage behavior that is counter to the maintenance of a stable community, i.e. sacrificing virgins because it is "your religion" is not acceptable. if you are NOT a US citizen and choose to try and enter the US, you are subject to scrutiny on ALL levels.

So...upon your entrance to another country, it will be ok with you if you are subjected to profiling simply because you are a USC, an American? That's what I meant by my response.

I don't think it's right to subject every proclaiming Muslim to such profiling...it's like saying every Muslim is guilty, regardless of whether or not they actively practice their religion. This sounds more like a case of religious intolerance than anything else...and a highly suspicious border patrol guard. Has there been any other cases of other foreign nationals being treated with the same level of scrutiny as this gentleman was? Do you think Germans, British, Australians, etc. are treated with THIS SAME level of scrutiny?

Leaving Canada and coming back into MY OWN country last year I was subjected to a very heavy security check...and I was told that it was on the instructions of MY COUNTRY. How fair is it for my own country to be so suspicious of one of its own returning home? BTW, I am a USC.

JMHO of course.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

They should just be honest and say that they do actively discriminate against muslims. That's all profiling seems to amount to - its discrimination by another name.

[prpplague 0]

Then would you have a problem if you are someday subjected to something similar? Would you still feel that it's ok to engage in profiling? It is possible you know.

first i am a US citizen, i do have protection under the law. second, USCIS is charged with keeping undesirables from entering into the US, be it criminals, drug users, terrorists or religious extremists. the surpreme court ruled that there are certain limits on religious freedoms in the US. mainly if the religion performs or encourage behavior that is counter to the maintenance of a stable community, i.e. sacrificing virgins because it is "your religion" is not acceptable. if you are NOT a US citizen and choose to try and enter the US, you are subject to scrutiny on ALL levels.

. . or dentists who happen to be muslim.

And actually, you might want to bone up on your rights at the border - even as a US citizen you have NO Rights at the border. You have no miranda rights; ou cannot make a phone call; you do not have the right to talk to a lawyer; you can be held without knowledge and awareness of anyone by your own border authorities and it is perfectly legal. The border guards are the ultimate authority and they make the deciisions about what you will and will not be allowed to do. So, even if you are a US citizen, if they want to believe you are a person of interest, you don't have any rights at all. I think it is in everyone's interests - US citizens and visitors to the US - that border officials are educated, knowledgeable and perform their jobs responsibly, intelligently and with integrity.

But perhaps he was held under the fact that he is an imam who airs public views about his religion?

If we're talking red-flags that might be the bigger one, rather than the fact that he's a muslim who also happens to be a dentist.

we already know that USCIS uses google.com to do checks. i did a quick google for el-kasem and ran across several references. no surprise to me that he got extra questioning.

and as far as being scrutinized on entry into the US, i have nothing to hide, USCIS is welcome to do all the checks they want on me when i enter the US.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Then would you have a problem if you are someday subjected to something similar? Would you still feel that it's ok to engage in profiling? It is possible you know.

first i am a US citizen, i do have protection under the law. second, USCIS is charged with keeping undesirables from entering into the US, be it criminals, drug users, terrorists or religious extremists. the surpreme court ruled that there are certain limits on religious freedoms in the US. mainly if the religion performs or encourage behavior that is counter to the maintenance of a stable community, i.e. sacrificing virgins because it is "your religion" is not acceptable. if you are NOT a US citizen and choose to try and enter the US, you are subject to scrutiny on ALL levels.

. . or dentists who happen to be muslim.

And actually, you might want to bone up on your rights at the border - even as a US citizen you have NO Rights at the border. You have no miranda rights; ou cannot make a phone call; you do not have the right to talk to a lawyer; you can be held without knowledge and awareness of anyone by your own border authorities and it is perfectly legal. The border guards are the ultimate authority and they make the deciisions about what you will and will not be allowed to do. So, even if you are a US citizen, if they want to believe you are a person of interest, you don't have any rights at all. I think it is in everyone's interests - US citizens and visitors to the US - that border officials are educated, knowledgeable and perform their jobs responsibly, intelligently and with integrity.

But perhaps he was held under the fact that he is an imam who airs public views about his religion?

If we're talking red-flags that might be the bigger one, rather than the fact that he's a muslim who also happens to be a dentist.

we already know that USCIS uses google.com to do checks. i did a quick google for el-kasem and ran across several references. no surprise to me that he got extra questioning.

and as far as being scrutinized on entry into the US, i have nothing to hide, USCIS is welcome to do all the checks they want on me when i enter the US.

Well given that he's an imam - the Osama Bin Laden and "belief in god" questions would assume new significance IMO. Asking someone you know to be actively religious if they believe in God would seem somewhat offensive in that context.

Edited June 10, 2007 by erekose

[homesick_american 1]

I think the imam's story is almost certainly exaggerated but I don't doubt that he felt singled out. We don't know if he was randomly selected or if his behavior raised suspicions. I'm not quite ready to condemn the US border guards but I also do not doubt that some Muslims, particularly men, ESPECIALLY clergy, are sometimes selected for scrutiny due to their religion, gender, and profession.

[L_n_O 3]

I feel sorry for the guy and NO, I don't believe this was a justified course of action by the border officials!

I just so happened to be born in a middle east country and because of that, every once in a while when I'm crossing the US border, an official will freak out on me and look at me all shady like

He'll ask me : where were you born?

Me: Oman

Him: where's that?

Me: in Asia

Him: where in Asia

Me: in the middle east

Him: what!

and then <sigh> I have to answer about 20 mins of more stupid questions

Yes, I'm sorry that terrorism is a part of today's society. No, I don't condone that kind of behaviour.

But when some dumbass guard freaks out on me because I used the word "middle east" (even though he doesn't even know where the f- it is!!!#@# and I had to TELL HIM where it is!! and then listen to his stupidness) for no reason even though I'm 5'2", obviously of INDIAN nationality, a canadian citizen, and catholic NOT ARAB, and a 23yr old female in a psych degree and a 2 year relationship with my states-side boyfriend, I pity the guards for their ignorance.

The thing is, the more educated guards see this, and realize that just because you're from a certain part of the world, or you look middle eastern, or south asian doesn't mean you have intentions of blowing somethings up!

Alright, I'm done now.

[L_n_O 3]

ok, maybe not..

and ppl saying that you can't take his word that they actually asked him "do you know Osama bin Laden" is completely rude, ridiculous and aggravating on its own.

Would it be different for you all if it was an American citizen saying that he was accosted at a border in an arab country? Would you believe him on his word as opposed to this guy?!

[Jenn! 918]

He'll ask me : where were you born?

Me: Oman

Him: where's that?

Me: in Asia

Him: where in Asia

Me: in the middle east

Him: what!

I would have thought that knowing the locations of the world's countries would be prerequisite knowledge for an immigration official. Guess not.

[JoeMama 0]

Last year, I got yanked from the security check line at Chicago's O'Hare Airport. I was on my way back to San Francisco. I was profiled for something. Probably, my skin color. Maybe there was a quota of people they had to be interrogated that night. Whatever it was, I was chosen. I was physically searched and questioned for about 10 minutes. They also went through my carry-on bay by dumping everything out. I had a contraband tube of sunscreen that exceeded 3 oz. I just got back from vacationing on the Black Sea. The only thing I hope is that they derived a large amount of pleasure fondling my underwear looking for more contraband items!

[L_n_O 3]

He'll ask me : where were you born?

Me: Oman

Him: where's that?

Me: in Asia

Him: where in Asia

Me: in the middle east

Him: what!

I would have thought that knowing the locations of the world's countries would be prerequisite knowledge for an immigration official. Guess not.

exactly my point.. oh, the funny part of that experience, other than the obvious, was that my USC boyfriend was DRIVING THE CAR with me! There, right there! My very caucasian boyfriend of two years who drove to Toronto to pick me up to drive to Pennsylvania to enjoy the holidays with his family!!!! Oh, and what holiday was that you ask? CHRISTMAS!! FOR US CATHOLICS

Edited June 11, 2007 by liz_legend

[Reba 2]

This is by no means the first Canadian citizen who has been profiled and humiliated by US border officials. In the years since 9/11 there have been dozens. Some of them were born in other parts of the world, and are naturalized Canadians, and others are born Canadians of Middle-East decent. Some have had their passports shredded and have been "sent home" with no notice to Canadian authorities as is supposed to be procedure. And by "sent home" US authorities stick them on a plane to some middle eastern country where some of these people have never even been before. All of them under suspicion because of their origins of birth, or because of their religion. Very few of them had any other connection other than that.

Should every Italian be searched and detained at the border for being Italian and connected to the mob? Should every Irishman be detained for maybe being connected to the IRA? Or every Russian because ya just never know, they may be a pinko commie? Or or or...?

I'll remind people here that prior to 9/11 the most horrific terrorist act perpetrated on US soil was by a born US citizen. Perhaps all former US Army should also be questioned and detained under suspicion that they may want to blow up a governement building?

[KarenCee 3]

I'll remind people here that prior to 9/11 the most horrific terrorist act perpetrated on US soil was by a born US citizen. Perhaps all former US Army should also be questioned and detained under suspicion that they may want to blow up a governement building?

Funny...no one ever mentions this. Has it been conveniently forgotten perhaps...since it was committed by a US Citizen?