What we get wrong about misogyny

[90DayFinancier 910]

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/12/5/16705284/metoo-weinstein-misogyny-trump-sexism

 

What is misogyny? How is it different from sexism? And why does the male-dominated status quo seem to persist?

 

A new book by Cornell philosophy professor Kate Manne has answers. She argues that misogyny is not about male hostility or hatred toward women — instead, it’s about controlling and punishing women who challenge male dominance. Misogyny rewards women who reinforce the status quo and punishes those who don’t.

In this interview, we explore how sexism and misogyny are different, how misogyny is embedded in our customs and institutions, and what Trump’s election and our current moment reveal about our future.

Our conversation, lightly edited for clarity, follows.

---

Sean Illing

Can you sum up your argument in this book?

Kate Manne

There’s a tendency to define misogyny as this deep hatred in the heart, harbored by men towards girls and women. I define misogyny as social systems or environments where women face hostility and hatred because they’re women in a man's world — a historical patriarchy.

Sean Illing

I always thought of misogyny as an ideology: a body of ideas that exists to justify social relations. But you argue that this is sexism, and that misogyny is better understood as a moral manifestation of sexist ideology.

Kate Manne

Yeah, that's really well put. One way of looking at it is we have these patriarchal social structures, bastions of male privilege where a dominant man might feel entitled to (and often receive) feminine care and attention from women.

I think of misogyny and sexism as working hand-in-hand to uphold those social relations. Sexism is an ideology that says, “These arrangements just make sense. Women are just more caring, or nurturing, or empathetic,” which is only true if you prime people by getting them to identify with their gender.

[laylalex 7,284]

Too exhausted to read the interview tonight but will in the morning -- I can already tell that this is something I'm very interested in digging into.  I'll be up earliesh to watch college football (my second tier Ivy is playing another second tier Ivy ) and will need something cheery to read while my team is almost certainly getting flogged.

 

9am isn't too early to start drinking, right?  

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

Agree. Man needs to run the house. It gous back to men being the protector.  The hunter , the provider. Its genatic.

 

Wimmens have genetics to stay at the camp, tend to babies, prepare the food.

 

Hardly shocking research duh 

 

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

10 hours ago, 90DayFinancier said:

Yeah, that's really well put. One way of looking at it is we have these patriarchal social structures, bastions of male privilege where a dominant man might feel entitled to (and often receive) feminine care and attention from women.

 

what is this talking about - a hospital?

[90DayFinancier 910]

1 minute ago, Ban Hammer said:

what is this talking about - a hospital?

No sandwich making.

[Neonred 3,564]

10 hours ago, laylalex said:

Too exhausted to read the interview tonight but will in the morning -- I can already tell that this is something I'm very interested in digging into.  I'll be up earliesh to watch college football (my second tier Ivy is playing another second tier Ivy ) and will need something cheery to read while my team is almost certainly getting flogged.

 

9am isn't too early to start drinking, right?  

Rooting for Harvard or Yale?

[laylalex 7,284]

13 minutes ago, Neonred said:

Rooting for Harvard or Yale?

Neither?

[Neonred 3,564]

47 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Neither?

 

 

OK, probably Brown then.

 

Dartmouth was in consideration for me long ago, but it's just too darn cold in the northeast.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

1 hour ago, Neonred said:

Rooting for Harvard or Yale?

do they have football teams 

[Dashinka 24,504]

13 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

do they have football teams 

Who are the Dogs playing today?

[laylalex 7,284]

15 minutes ago, Neonred said:

 

 

OK, probably Brown then.

 

Dartmouth was in consideration for me long ago, but it's just too darn cold in the northeast.

Dad went to Brown, so it was the only Ivy I was interested in. Providence isn't too bad -- plenty of snow, yeah, but not terrible and more rainy and miserable than anything else -- compared to Hanover. It was also my introduction to Democratic Party machine corruption -- WOW! Politics have never been boring in Rhode Island.  

 

Dad also says that I should be rooting for Yale against Harvard because if Dartmouth wins, and Yale wins, then Yale will share the title with Dartmouth instead of holding it outright. I just saw that there's some sort of sitdown protest there in New Haven for climate change and no one is on the field?

16 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

do they have football teams 

Yes, they are playing each other today but play is suspended at the moment.

[Neonred 3,564]

7 minutes ago, laylalex said:

Dad went to Brown, so it was the only Ivy I was interested in. Providence isn't too bad -- plenty of snow, yeah, but not terrible and more rainy and miserable than anything else -- compared to Hanover. It was also my introduction to Democratic Party machine corruption -- WOW! Politics have never been boring in Rhode Island.  

 

Dad also says that I should be rooting for Yale against Harvard because if Dartmouth wins, and Yale wins, then Yale will share the title with Dartmouth instead of holding it outright. I just saw that there's some sort of sitdown protest there in New Haven for climate change and no one is on the field?

Yes, they are playing each other today but play is suspended at the moment.

Figured I did not need to go to school with liberal and probably super snooty kids so I picked the most redneck school I could think of.

[Nature Boy 2.0 8,370]

11 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Who are the Dogs playing today?

Texas A and M

Just now, Neonred said:

Figured I did not need to go to school with liberal and probably super snooty kids so I picked the most redneck school I could think of.

You went to FSU or UF

[laylalex 7,284]

2 minutes ago, Neonred said:

Figured I did not need to go to school with liberal and probably super snooty kids so I picked the most redneck school I could think of.

I think you'll find super snooty people at every school.  My experience was of having classmates from a variety of socioeconomic backgrounds, and most people were down to earth, but everyone was frighteningly smart. And weird! It's definitely the "artiest" of all of them and wears its weirdo status proudly. I don't deny it was a liberal place, but I had friends who were conservatives too. I think we can make a lot of assumptions about what a place is like that fall apart or crack open once we actually get there. 

 

Unbelievably we're ahead at the moment 23-14 -- I peeked over at the Yale-Harvard game a few minutes ago and it looks like play is still stopped. I am also amused that I accidentally turned a thread about misogyny and the patriarchy into a football thread. The irony is not lost on me.  

[Dashinka 24,504]

9 minutes ago, Nature Boy 2.0 said:

Texas A and M

You went to FSU or UF

Watching PSU OSU right now.  Pretty good game.