Greta Thunberg, time traveller?

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

6 hours ago, fip & jim said:

As the parent of a neurodivergent teenager I have been paying particular attention to the continued attacks and the weaponization of Greta's diagnoses (or in more correctly pseudo-diagnoses) on here.

There is a misconception that individuals on the autistic spectrum cannot function in situations where neurotypical individuals may succeed or thrive. Using words like "handicapped" and "disabled" show a deep misunderstanding of the condition. While you may justify this as a bit of "fun" or freedom of speech it is offensive.

I regularly receive personal messages from members on here seeking advice - either they themselves are on the autistic spectrum or their child is. Greta may well never read what is on here but there is a very high possibility that they may. It creates an environment of intolerance and bullying, even if you justify it as "deserved" because it is directed at a high-profile individual. 

Do you have a handicap tag or license plate on your vehicle due to your child's autism?

[fip & jim 452]

1 hour ago, ALFKAD said:

Do you have a handicap tag or license plate on your vehicle due to your child's autism?

Why are you asking? 

My child wasn't diagnosed in the US. Autism is viewed differently in the country we emigrated from. 

Edited November 24, 2019 by fip & jim

[Dashinka 24,747]

3 hours ago, fip & jim said:

Yet you have decided she is disabled and therefore is being exploited, because she couldn't possibly be on the autism spectrum and be able to form an opinion of her own?

There is continuing armchair analysis on here of someone's condition. People that view neurodivergence as a disability or handicap show their own ignorance and prejudice about a condition that can be a vast spectrum of challenges and strengths. Many of the great innovators have shown "autistic" traits - people like Einstein and Tesla. 

I guess it's easy to take a pop at someone, anonymously, without thinking through the consequences of the message you are sending out. There are members on here that are autistic, or have a family member on the spectrum. Well noted that you failed to address my comments about how it creates an environment of intolerance and bullying. Cue the "snowflake" name calling....

🙄

How has anything I said been a hit job on someone who is autistic?  Also, I do not remember calling her a snowflake.  Now I do appreciate you pointing out my ignorance regarding her being disabled, but don’t dump all your venom on me.  We are talking about one public figure, I have never met her, and most likely never will, but being a public figure, she will face scrutiny period.  I know if I was the parent of an autistic child regardless of the level, I generally would not look to turn them into a public figure particularly in a very controversial subject.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

33 minutes ago, fip & jim said:

Why are you asking? 

My child wasn't diagnosed in the US. Autism is viewed differently in the country we emigrated from. 

Shouldn’t matter WHERE the diagnosis was done, the benefits should be the same here in the US.  I ask because autism qualifies one for a handicapped placard in many states.  Therefore, those states recognize the condition as a... legitimate handicap.

 

As to your earlier posts, I will say this... no one here is mean enough to intentionally cause hurt feelings nor offense when talking about Greta.  It certainly has ZERO bearing on others like your child nor on fellow VJ members who may have autism.  Furthermore, don’t be offended when it’s incorrectly labeled as a handicap by those of us less familiar with the disorder.  I will freely admit that in MY mind, handicap & disabled are synonymous; in fact, I didn’t realize there was a difference until you posted and I went online to research the difference.

http://www.differencebetween.net/language/the-difference-between-handicapped-and-disabled/ 

 

I am sorry if anything I have posted has ever caused you harm in regards to autism.  I don’t THINK I have, but one never knows nowadays.  My comments about Greta are more along the lines of my disapproval of her being used by the media, with the allowance of her parents, in a political stunt such as she has been used.  Greta may well have a great grasp on the situation, and I am sure she feels genuinely passionate about the situation, and believes she is correct (whether or not she is we can decide in a few years).  But that dear girl needs to be in SCHOOL, hanging out with her friends and receiving an education, not being paraded around the world as she has been.  She can write papers and give speeches from her home town, and I think that would be better for her.  (Not that I have anything against sailing, it’s actually a bucket list goal of mine).

 

Thanks to you, I have perhaps become a bit smarter on the subject of disorders vs handicaps vs disabled conditions.  Not sure I will always be able to correctly apply the correct label without looking again, but thanks for sharing your perspective with us.

[Boiler 45,979]

I would not worry too much about such definitions as they change and unless this is a subject you are particularly involved in you are unlikely to be current.

 

To reiterate she has multiple issues, well according to her Parents who seem to be the ones who promoted this and yes to MSM jumped on board. This is hardly unknown, plenty of historical precedents.

 

 

[fip & jim 452]

16 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

Shouldn’t matter WHERE the diagnosis was done, the benefits should be the same here in the US.  I ask because autism qualifies one for a handicapped placard in many states.  Therefore, those states recognize the condition as a... legitimate handicap.

My child doesn’t need a handicapped placard because he is not handicapped. He is fully mobile, fully comprehends, is able to behave in an appropriate and safe manner when out and about, and has an above average IQ. I believe, although I haven’t checked because it is irrelevant for us, that a person qualifies for this, not because they have a diagnosis of autism, but if they have significant developmental disabilities or severe limited ability to walk due to a neurological condition. Having a learning or developmental disability is distinct from autism. 

 

16 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

As to your earlier posts, I will say this... no one here is mean enough to intentionally cause hurt feelings nor offense when talking about Greta.  It certainly has ZERO bearing on others like your child nor on fellow VJ members who may have autism.

It does have a bearing, ALFKAD. VJ is a community. 1 in 100 people have a diagnosis of autism. It is not as rare as you may realize. It is more difficult for an autistic person to obtain a visa for America due to the labelling of the condition as a disability, a handicap and a mental “disorder” in American society. As I mentioned before I regularly receive personal messages from people about emigrating as an autistic person, or with an autistic person. I found it very difficult to find information when we began our journey and I wrote up our experience so that others may find what worked for us. A community should be inclusive for all its members. People mocking others for what they are is not inclusive - posting attacks on a high-profile young person that is known to be on the autistic spectrum is immature and irresponsible and sends out a message that people that are like her are not welcome in this community. 

 

16 hours ago, ALFKAD said:

 Greta may well have a great grasp on the situation, and I am sure she feels genuinely passionate about the situation, and believes she is correct (whether or not she is we can decide in a few years).  But that dear girl needs to be in SCHOOL, hanging out with her friends and receiving an education, not being paraded around the world as she has been.

Part of what you are noticing about Greta’s situation is the difference in cultural attitudes about parenting and education. Nordic parents are less authoritarian than American parents in their parenting styles. Learning is viewed not only as something that happens in a classroom with a teacher teaching while a student listens, “receiving” an education. Also it is not uncommon for young people in Europe to take a gap year from their studies - to travel, to experience a working environment, to explore a field they are interested in. Nordic nations are also connected to and have a relationship with their natural environment - if you are interested you may like to look up the Scandinavian concepts of friluftsliv and allmansrätten. I'm mentioning all these factors as elements you may not be aware of in context of Greta's background. 

 

17 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Also, I do not remember calling her a snowflake.  Now I do appreciate you pointing out my ignorance regarding her being disabled, but don’t dump all your venom on me.

I didn’t say you called her a snowflake. I was pointing out that that there is a tendency on the CEHST forum for calling anyone that points out offensive comments to be called over-sensitive. See my above comments about VJ being a community that should be inclusive. 

 

Would you like to explain how exactly I dumping “venom” on you? I was pointing out that a diagnosis of autism does not mean that someone is disabled. I'm not posting offensive and mocking memes, or making unsubstantiated claims of disability abuse. I was using my experience as the parent of an autistic child to let people on here know that their comments could cause offence and alienate members of our community.

 

 

[Dashinka 24,747]

2 hours ago, fip & jim said:

My child doesn’t need a handicapped placard because he is not handicapped. He is fully mobile, fully comprehends, is able to behave in an appropriate and safe manner when out and about, and has an above average IQ. I believe, although I haven’t checked because it is irrelevant for us, that a person qualifies for this, not because they have a diagnosis of autism, but if they have significant developmental disabilities or severe limited ability to walk due to a neurological condition. Having a learning or developmental disability is distinct from autism. 

 

It does have a bearing, ALFKAD. VJ is a community. 1 in 100 people have a diagnosis of autism. It is not as rare as you may realize. It is more difficult for an autistic person to obtain a visa for America due to the labelling of the condition as a disability, a handicap and a mental “disorder” in American society. As I mentioned before I regularly receive personal messages from people about emigrating as an autistic person, or with an autistic person. I found it very difficult to find information when we began our journey and I wrote up our experience so that others may find what worked for us. A community should be inclusive for all its members. People mocking others for what they are is not inclusive - posting attacks on a high-profile young person that is known to be on the autistic spectrum is immature and irresponsible and sends out a message that people that are like her are not welcome in this community. 

 

Part of what you are noticing about Greta’s situation is the difference in cultural attitudes about parenting and education. Nordic parents are less authoritarian than American parents in their parenting styles. Learning is viewed not only as something that happens in a classroom with a teacher teaching while a student listens, “receiving” an education. Also it is not uncommon for young people in Europe to take a gap year from their studies - to travel, to experience a working environment, to explore a field they are interested in. Nordic nations are also connected to and have a relationship with their natural environment - if you are interested you may like to look up the Scandinavian concepts of friluftsliv and allmansrätten. I'm mentioning all these factors as elements you may not be aware of in context of Greta's background. 

 

I didn’t say you called her a snowflake. I was pointing out that that there is a tendency on the CEHST forum for calling anyone that points out offensive comments to be called over-sensitive. See my above comments about VJ being a community that should be inclusive. 

 

Would you like to explain how exactly I dumping “venom” on you? I was pointing out that a diagnosis of autism does not mean that someone is disabled. I'm not posting offensive and mocking memes, or making unsubstantiated claims of disability abuse. I was using my experience as the parent of an autistic child to let people on here know that their comments could cause offence and alienate members of our community.

 

 

Is Autism defined under the ADA?  Quite honestly in reference to Ms. Thunberg, I would never had known she was autistic except for the fact that her handlers want to make sure she gets the requisite sympathy.  Anyone’s comments on any subject can be considered offensive to someone, but that is the nature of freedom of speech.  I read back through the thread and saw very little attack on Ms. Thunberg beyond what one would expect for such a high profile person involved in a very controversial topic.

[Penguin_ie 5,996]

***** Many posts removed for personal attacks and other TOS violations, and further admin action taken against one member.  More posts removed for being off topic.  Thread locked for not discussing the OP for a long time. ******